| Author | Message | ||
     Paw |
I was just googling my new employer GE to see how they faired last year on the world 500 list they cam in 11th. but what pissed me of was to see of the top 10 business' 6 were oil companies and they profited the following. 1.Wal-Mart Stores~ $11.2 billion 2 Exxon Mobil (oil)~ $39.5 billion 3 Royal Dutch Shell (oil)~ $25.4 billion 4 BP( oil)~ $22 billion 5 General Motors~ -$2 billion (poor GM lost 2 B) 6 Toyota Motor~ $14 billion 7 Chevron (oil)~ $17.1 billion 8 DaimlerChrysler~ $4 billion 9 ConocoPhillips (oil)~ $15.5 billion 10 Total (oil)~ $14.7 billion 11 General Electric~ $20.8 billion So in the end the top 6 oil companies in the world made a combined profit of $1,342,000,000,000 yes that is $1.34 trillion. glad to see there is such a shortage of oil around the world. (Message edited by paw on November 17, 2007) | ||
| Pirateairbrush |
Its not the shortage, its the demand witch causes the "shortage" I actully also work in the Petro indusrty, You would be very surprised on how the profit is broke down. Did you know that the Oil companys make only 8-10 cents for every dollar of gas? A big profit area is the selling of COKE to Japan. Not the soda. hope you dont light too many fires. (Message edited by pirateairbrush on November 17, 2007) | ||
| Court |
It is indeed DEMAND. The oil companies are doing nothing but responding to what we ask for. In addition, they live in a world of significant risk . . . just ask the Ukos folks. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
It pisses me off when everyone blames the war for higher gas prices... when the oil companies are making more profit now than ever before. | ||
| Bcordb3 |
It is demand created by the cuts in production from OPEC. What bothers me that west coast is not really impacted by foreign oil. Most of the crude coming into the US west coast is Alaskan, some Equitorian, some Venezualan, a very small percentage of middle-eastern crude. OPEC sets the pricing and the 7 sisters reap the profits. | ||
| Honu |
Talking about lighting a fire under your butt. At place of employement two weks ago. Does Walmart of GM have to deal with this kind of risk??    | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
What do all of those top companies have in common? They all have massive volume sales. In the case of Wal-Mart they have huge sales of thousands of cheaps products at thousands of locations worldwide. Oil companies sell millions of barrels of expensive oil per day. The same with autos - millions of expensive cars per year. If you could get the roughly 6.6 billion people in the world to purchase a one dollar pet rock you'd be up on that list, too. | ||
| Reepicheep |
And that's without and snipers. I presume. If the oil company profits were that clear cut and extortive... I'd be working for Road Thing.  Expensive gas in the US will be one of the best things to ever happen to motorcycling here. And I think more Americans on motorcycles will make America a better place. | ||
| Cochise |
So in the end the top 6 oil companies in the world made a combined profit of $1,342,000,000 yes that is $1.34 trillion Actually, what you wrote is 1.342 Billion, you need three more 0's to make it to the trillion column | ||
| Cowboy |
Att: you may find this very instereasting reading and gain some insight on the cost and gample of producing oil.(go to Shell oil ursa) I am very familuar with this orp as my oldest son is one of the enginears that helped plan and build this platform. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The other erroneous assumption is that 100% of what these companies produce is used in the united states. Every single one of those companies is a global enterprise wit sales all over the country. In 2006, the US consumed 146,000,000,000 gallons of gasoline. At that rate and assuming they sold 100% of every gallon in the US, the oil companies are earning about $.92 per gallon. Now consider that the numbers in the top 11 analysis are for GLOBAL operations. Our oil consumption accounts for approximately 45% of global supply. Using those numbers, we can assume about 325,000,000,000 gallons per year. At that level, we can assume that the oil companies are making about $.41 per gallon. Now assume the other sources of revenue: "In-store sales also showed strong growth, rising 8.3 percent in 2006, surpassing the overall sales growth of virtually all other competing retail channels and surpassing the overall retail sales growth of 5.0 percent in 2006 reported by the U.S. Department of Commerce. Industry merchandise sales rose 8.7 percent, while foodservice sales rose 5.0 percent. Once again, cigarettes dominated in-store sales, accounting for more than one in every three dollars spent in stores. The top 10 categories in terms of percent of in-store sales were: Cigarettes (34.4 percent of in-store sales) Packaged beverages (13.8 percent) Beer (12.2 percent) Foodservice (12.1 percent) Other tobacco (3.8 percent) Candy (3.7 percent) Salty Snacks (3.2 percent) General merchandise (2.0 percent) Fluid milk products (1.9 percent) Packaged sweet snacks (1.5 percent)" Convenience store non-gasoline sales totaled $163.6B for 2006. Let's assume that there is only a 30% mark-up (we know it's more than that) and let's assume that only 1/3 of the stores are "company" stores, that's about $16B. So that would further drop the profit margin to about $.37 per gallon. Add to that all of the non-gasoline products including diesel, kerosene, jet fuel, industrial chemicals, solvents, etc. that are products of the refining process. Add into that, all the natural gas produced, and suddenly we are down to mere pennies per gallon of profit. I wouldn't begrudge the oil companies what they make. They make it a few cents at a time. DON'T BE A SHEEP. "LIGHT A FIRE UNDER YOUR BUTT" TO DO A LITTLE RESEARCH AND THINK ABOUT THE ISSUE RATHER THAN JUST REACT. THEY NEED YOU TO JUST REACT. (Message edited by ft_bstrd on November 17, 2007) | ||
| 4cammer |
First let me say that I am not a tree hugger or Green Peace member... It just may be time for Americans to get their heads out of their cans (along with the domestic GM,Ford and Chrysler) and realize that the day of 10 passenger SUV's just may be coming to a close. (Message edited by 4cammer on November 17, 2007) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The market will take care of what cars are produced. If I want to buy a 10 passenger SUV and am willing to pay for the gas for it, there shouldn't be an artificial prohibition against it. If there aren't enough buyers who feel that it is economically viable to purchase an SUV and pay for gas, sales will dip, and producers will stop building them. Government intervention at any level creates inefficiencies in the market causing inadvertent surpluses and shortages. Beware what you wish for. | ||
| Buellerthanyou |
"If there aren't enough buyers who feel that it is economically viable to purchase an SUV and pay for gas, sales will dip, and producers will stop building them." FB, I certainly agree with you in principle (Libertarian), but it's telling that: #5 General Motors~ -$2 billion (poor GM lost 2 B) Maybe GM needs someone to tell them that.  Maybe the oil companies (with the help of too much government intervention) have too much of an effect on our total national economy. Anybody check the price of milk lately? HBJ "Inflation is the one form of taxation that can be imposed without legislation." --Milton FriedmanBuelly (Message edited by buellerthanyou on November 17, 2007) | ||
| Etennuly |
Why is there always a blanket attack on SUV's when fuel issues come up? They have their place that makes sense too. I happen to have a GMC Denali. I also have a Buell XB12X. I cannot transport workers, customers, and family members to where they need be with a car or on my bike. When needed there are usually four to seven people needing to be transported. Prior to having the SUV I used a V6 powered pickup. We often had to take two vehicles to cover the needed passenger movement resulting in the use of MORE gasoline. Over the past twelve months I have put 14,000 miles on the SUV and 16,000 plus on the bike. I use the bike in business as much as possible, not just because it is more fun, but it is more economical and better for the "green". The SUV's have been changing over the past ten years also. In 1980 my 350 2wd pickup was lucky to get 10 mpg, in 1997 my Suburban 2wd with a 5.7 got 14.7 mpg as a best average, usually in the mid to high 13's. This 2003 Denali all wd 6.0 routinely does 16.5 mpg and has gone as high as 18.7 on a trip. I have seen commercials on TV where the GM full size SUV '08 models are claiming to reach 20 mpg. That is a real improvement over what we had twenty some years ago when a v6 small car would net a 15-16 mpg average. A lot of the people who point at SUV's in general probably aren't getting better mileage out of what ever they may be driving, or using what is available to them wisely and economically. I'm not a tree hugger either. I believe that resources are here to use, but I would like to see some left for my grand children to not have to fight over. I hope my children's generation can come up with new technology that can actually be used by everyone and not be suppressed by Government and Oil Barons for......oh you know.......continued profits. Would you consider a car that gets 28+ mpg a good economy vehicle? That is what my '94 300 hp 5.7 Corvette would do. It would do about 21 around town. Funny thing is I often got bashed about driving a "gas hog" when I drove that car. Perception is a bent tool. | ||
| Iamike |
I don't have a problem with 10 passenger SUVs or pickup trucks. What I don't like is the people using them when they don't need to. I work with a bunch of guys whose politics I'm sure that they vote for the so called anti-fuel use group. Yet they drive their pickups and SUVs to work every day. On my cycle I get 3 times the gas mileage that they get. If these people would use a scooter, motorcycle or even a bicycle and quit being such hippocrites the price of gas would go down quite a bit. | ||
| Igneroid |
Ft bstrd wrote: If I want to buy a 10 passenger SUV and am willing to pay for the gas for it, there shouldn't be an artificial prohibition against it. This, comming from a guy who makes an ungodly amount of profit from meat helmet sales every spring...ShuH-heet....} | ||
| Court |
Man am I . . . er WE (in my household) guilt on that count. We drive 2 vehicles through the longest commute in the United States (Staten Island into Manhattan) into the most congested area of traffic in the United States where parking runs about $60/day. I dive a full size pickup and the SCU drives a MB sports car that sucks fuel. We both enjoy 2 wheels are are seriously look at what would happen if we'd two-wheel it once or twice a week. One thing that sucks hot gas is that since 9-11-01 you can't take a scooter of motorbike on the Staten Island Ferry . .. if you could (the car desks ride empty and fenced off ever 15 minutes during rush hour) it'd change things . . our house is like 5 minutes from the Ferry and the Ferry takes 25 minutes to deliver you to Whitehall at the foot of Wall Street. I predict things will change. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
It's the scribe that becomes expensive. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
So there's no challenge to my numbers? If not, can we stop with "the oil companies are raping us" crap? | ||
| Etennuly |
Would you feel raped if your crack dealer kept raising his prices and you got nothing more for it and you found out he has a new jet, a new yacht, and a new mansion on an island and is standing in his tower laughing at you because he is insulated from the financial problems you face? Oh, and aren't profits considered to be monies counted after those expenses you mentioned? I did not read that as gross sales figures, am I wrong? | ||
| Paw |
Anybody check the price of milk lately? How many gallons of milk do you go threw in a week compared to gas. Do you know the milk farmer has had the worst cost of living ajustment that anyone else around in the last 10 years. I will never bitch about milk prices. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
So, Vern, are you jealous of all wealthy people or just oil executives? Care to hazard a guess what the CEO of Exxon makes as a percentage of corporate profits? Think that percentage of corporate profits is higher or lower than your income as a percentage of YOUR corporate profits as a business owner? | ||
| Etennuly |
A tenth of a percent of a hundred billion is likely to be a lot more than thirty percent of a couple hundred thousand now isn't it? Jealous? Not in the least. I am all for capitalism and what it can do for a person's financial well being. I believe we are all in our lives financial positions guided by circumstance and the reality of who we are and from which we came, along with what ever fight and resolve we have for adjusting, changing, and controlling the same. And sometimes just goddamn luck. My question was.....were we looking at gross sales figures or actual profit numbers. If the numbers were for actual profit your expense theory doesn't count. If so let the party begin and let's not call excessive profits glut or gouging. If I am wrong I will crawl back into my cave and have a sandwich and a beverage. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I was assuming that it was net profit. Expense didn't even come into the calculation. If it was gross sales, then the numbers would look even worse for the oil company in what they make per gallon of gas sold. I purposely took expense out of the equation and assumed that what was listed was what they netted after all the expenses. Strangely, no one is really concerned that of the $134B of net profit made, that Uncle Sam took $46B of it. A tenth of a percent of a hundred billion is likely to be a lot more than thirty percent of a couple hundred thousand now isn't it? I agree completely. My point was that people always compare in nominal numbers what one person makes over another. "I don't have a jet, a yacht, a mansion or an island, so therefore that guy is overpaid (or is making more money per sales unit than is fair)." My point is that after several investigations from a Congress who would love to do nothing more than stick it to "Big Oil" for the benefit of "The People", they found absolutely NO evidence of price fixing, collusion, or profiteering. None. If they could have proved it, they would have. We all complain about the price of gasoline and that the oil companies are taking us to the cleaners because it's popular. Everyone hates taxes, feels like they are being raped by the oil companies, and hates the Yankees. Unfortunately, there is very little justification for that belief. As a result, if Diane Feinstein, Chuck Schumer, or Harry Reid can count on that unjustified bias, on Joe Lunch Bucket not thinking for himself, not doing the research, not really taking the time to understand what is going, they can get the American people to surrender personal choice, personal freedom, and power to them to fight the Boogeyman for them. It just takes a little time and the ability to Google to put the pieces together. Most would rather just go back to their six pack and American Idol and be done with it. | ||
| Buellerthanyou |
Anybody check the price of milk lately? "How many gallons of milk do you go threw in a week compared to gas. Do you know the milk farmer has had the worst cost of living ajustment that anyone else around in the last 10 years. I will never bitch about milk prices." Paw, Just an example, not picking on milk farmers. Trying to point out that higher fuel prices will mean higher EVERYTHING prices (except Hot Wheels, which are the same price I paid for them in 1968)  . Where the milk thing really hits me where it hurts is that I was in my favorite local ice cream shop (Amy's) the other day and they had a sign on the counter stating that although milk had greatly increased in price, they weren't currently raising their prices to compensate. This is a good thing of course, but even the HINT that my ice cream supply might be curtailed in the future, is no laughing matter. HellBuelly J "Ice-cream is exquisite. What a pity it isn't illegal." --Voltai1125re | ||
| Etennuly |
Well in the long run oil's huge profits are usually good for the economy. They spend big money in researching the globe for more of what we want to spend our earnings on. The meanest "crack" in the world...OIL. A relative of mine does high tech subcontract work for a company that manufactures off shore drilling rigs. He is quite busy when they have a good year. That lets him spend as he needs and that is good for another, and so on. I am galled at this time of year by having to pay more to do the same unit of work because the oil companies raise heating oil prices. I know, supply and demand and all of that, and I know it isn't their fault winter cold. I also know they are into a lot of research to lower sulpher and other solid emissions out of the fuels, there by getting less product out of a gallon of crude and taking more processes to complete the product. All of that doesn't matter. As a matter of being an American I can claim the right to bitch about it. The pattern is the same every year, the oil is priced based on predictions and risk. In my business it is twice as hard to do the work in the cold and it takes twice as long for the materials and chemicals to function and then we have to pay so much more for heat to do it. Our business is competitive and we cannot jack prices to meet this extra cost for the winter. If we do volume drops off and that doesn't help. Winter is here and life sucks until it gets warm again. | ||
| Bcordb3 |
So there's no challenge to my numbers? I am not challenging your numbers, I would like to know the basis of your thesis, where did those numbers come from is my question. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I simply Googled annual US gasoline usage, global gasoline usage, and convenience store non-food profits. I divided gallons used by profits of the group. The data then indicated that US usage was 45% of the global usage. I divided US usage by 45% to obtain global usage. I divided that number by group profits. I then referenced the National Convenience Store Association annual report where they provided both the fuel and non-fuel profits. I made some assumptions regarding how many of the stores are owned by the company vs owned by an individual. I merely extrapolated the data from several industry sources. Same place everyone else can obtain the information, Google. | ||
| Crusty |
This should lite a fire under you butt!!! It didn't. However, the salsa I had with my enchiladas last night did. |
