| Author | Message | ||
     Mikef5000 |
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=306041 4 Summary: A defensive back for the Univ. of Florida, age 19, was riding his silver Kawasaki with a girl on the back, junior at Florida State, when they struck a median at excessive speed (est. 25-30 over the speed limit). Neither were wearing helmets, both died. Sigh. I feel bad for the families. (Message edited by Mikef5000 on October 12, 2007) | ||
| Redefine420 |
I see sportbikes on the highway all the time with a girl on the back flying through traffic like shes not even there. I dont think the girls know what they're getting into when they get on. It's one thing to put yourself in danger like that, its clearly homicidal to put a passenger in that situation. | ||
| Slaughter |
It's one thing to put yourself in danger like that, its clearly homicidal to put a passenger in that situation. That statement was worth repeating! | ||
| Jaimec |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/406 2/311916.html?1191947891 | ||
| Damnut |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgxpyvHfP2c&mode=re lated&search= | ||
| Interceptor |
helmets people, helmets. | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
i love that vid....almost as good as that tool from pinks when he ate it....good times. | ||
| Blasterd |
He was a d-back for the University of Florida not Florida State, big difference. I'ts a sad day here in G-ville because of the loss of those 2 young people. Ken | ||
| Mikef5000 |
He was a d-back for the University of Florida not Florida State, big difference. My mistake... fixed. (Message edited by Mikef5000 on October 12, 2007) | ||
| Diablobrian |
This kind of tragedy is exactly what people point to when discussing helmet laws. While I am an ATGATT crusader I still don't think common sense (protecting your own melon) should be legislated to us with punitive actions threatened for non-compliance. Maybe a "This is your head without a helmet" campaign similar to the old "this is your brain on drugs" series from the 80's would help? We need to make it socially unacceptable to be seen riding without your helmet, not illegal. With the decline of the TV biker craze hopefully this will start turning around. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
What about the "minimum requirement, brain bucket" crowd? Just because you are wearing something, it doesn't mean you are protected. There no such thing as simulated ATGATT. | ||
| Diablobrian |
I agree, that's what I'm talking about. When you legislate helmet wear you end up with "novelty helmets" and ebay DOT stickers. If you make it un-cool to be helmet-less or to be seen in a novelty type helmet you will see people wearing higher quality helmets because they will be ashamed to be seen in anything less. Social pressure is much better than legislation for things like this. | ||
| Barker |
I constantly see bikers with non-DOT "novelty" helmets, not even the legal minimum. Yeah, some have DOT stickers but those stickers were bought @ a swap meet or rally and added to the bucket. | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
tv motorcycling hasnt declined a bit...superbikes is a popular show...metric tv also very hot now...chopper shows have tanked...most sport bike oriented shows at least try to say something about wearing gear once in a while...i cant count how many times ive seen some doof tearin ass down the road with the minimum on...hey that helmets gonna help a little but daaaamn thats gonna be one hellofa case of road rash or worse when that tank top and shorts meet mr pavement...and the girl on the back always has on less than the doofas...but hey if u like mr pavement and his mean older brother mr road rash from hell...go for it...how do u educate people like that and let them know there are better choices to be made....mmm i feel a crusade commin on. | ||
| Brumbear |
I can not imagine how the parents felt np matter where the went to school or live | ||
| Hexangler |
I've had 23 years of street riding always with Snell rated helmets. And I'm very cool!  ...and here to tell ya. Hex | ||
| Diablobrian |
Yeah M_H I didn't mean motorcycle oriented programs were gone, just that the "biker"/chopper/lifestyle programs are on the decline. | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
yeah thank god, now the overpriced garage trinket market is on the decline...now all the cool kids want them super fast crotch rockets...the time to educate is now...hey i dont want any @sshole or government telling me i HAVE to wear a helmet or gear...i just do cause thats how i was taught...that and a few hard lessons learned...theres gotta be a way...most bikers ive met, know...wear the gear...but i sure see a lot on the road that dont i kinda wonder where the hell they come from...hell, gear is half the fun of havin the bike....i dunno i just dont get it...everybody i know and ride with wears good stuff...but every time we go out we see that guy in the tank top and shorts with his girl...we stop and laugh,,,wow what a dumbsh!t...again where do they come from. | ||
| Diablobrian |
It's the "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" crowd. They know how to operate the bike, but they have no concept of their own mortality. They don't hang out with real motorcyclists because they don't know any, and therefore theere is no peer pressure to wear the gear. Thats why we need to go national with a campaign so we can drag these people into the light (kicking and screaming in some cases). I used to ride with a few guys in San Diego that gave me crap about my ATGATT attitude. I was labeled "the Gear Nazi" by them. They meant it in jest, but it was always a battle for me to get them to wear the gear they had in their closet. They claimed that it was too hot, or "It's not right wearing a full face on a cruiser". Funny though, since my accident and my gear saving my life, They have no problem wearing it any more. No matter how hot it is, or what bike. It became personal, but more than that all their friends started pressuring them to wear the gear. Peer pressure did the REAL trick. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Suiting up is part of the mindset, it gets you into the attitude that I am not just out for a walk around the park. Cant mandate responsibility and caution, at any time you could and can go down with drastic results. Having a good quality helmet doesnt stop it, being in a riding mindset might give you a fraction of a second longer to see the situation, but all said, better gear be damaged than head be damaged. (hell most dont think I am firing on all cylinders anyway) ATGATT | ||
| Nevrenuf |
i worked at the gainesville VA hospital for a year(doing some remodeling) and went to one of their sport bike nights at Gators sports bar and grill. one of the guys that showed with flip flops,shorts and a tank top. this is how he rode most of the time. young kid in school and probably thought he was invinceable. chances are daddy had money and he didn't care. but what's even better are these old guys on the big old goldwings with the shorts and flipflops also. do they think that they are impervious to accidents or something. | ||
| Rainman |
We have a few helmets left over from crashes that I use in RE/MSF courses to show how the impact goes from chin to head to back of the head and ask where in a half-helmet is the protection? It usually works. That having been said, I lost a student to a curve yesterday. He was in a class two weeks ago and took a mountain turn too hot (improper entry speed!!!!!), went wide and hit a van head on. SLOW, press and then roll. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I take a fairly libertarian viewpoint on the helmet law issue. There are, unfortunately, additional expenses that come as a result of a rider death due to the lack of the use of a helmet or helmet which meets DOT standards. As a result, I believe you should have the right not to wear a helmet at all. Should you be killed as a result of a head injury while not wearing a DOT/SNELL approved helmet, I believe your family should have to pay a $2,500 fee to claim your body from the county morgue. You may not give a crap about yourself, but you may care about those who will have to deal with the aftermath of your choices. I can guarantee you that your next-of-kin will apply the correct pressure for helmet compliance. I believe most young people who ride without suitable gear are children of non-riders. Most probably bought the bike in spite of the desires of their family. I'd bet most bought the bike with every last cent they could pull together over the objections of their parents. As a result, there wasn't sufficient funding nor support to truly devote the correct funds to gear. Their buddies are all in the same boat, and none of them have the experience to know any better. Add to that the fact that many ride from point A to B (home to school, school to work, home to bike night, etc) and don't ride much for distance. Most don't ride with the attitude that I am doing so to improve my skills. I use any chance I can with a more advanced rider to suck their brains dry for secrets, tips, guidance, etc. I doubt many new riders have any sort of thought pattern (let alone a MC endorsement). I believe the older "Gold Wing" crowd are similar in that they are new to the sport. Many have had no formal rider training. The idea to ride came as a result of extra time (kids are gone, career is winding down, retirement) with excess cash (not paying college tuition, house is paid for, retirement savings, etc.). As a result, their wife might buy them a Harley or a Gold Wing. They aren't going to ride fast, so why do they need the heavy gear? I've got a buddy who's wife bought him a Fat Boy for his 50th. He had no experience riding. His training consisted of him doing laps around the neighborhood until he felt "comfortable". His normal gear consisted of boat shoes, khaki shorts, and a madras shirt with brain bucket. I commented that he should really think about better gear. He said that he didn't need it because he didn't ride that far or that fast. He didn't have much to say when I asked him what the combined closing speed is between him and the person crossing the double yellow line each going 40mph was. I'd like to see a national ad campaign for gear safety. I'm also for choice, but our industry sucks at self regulation. As a result, we either allow some regulation or we will get heavier regulation from the insurance industry as well as from those who don't even ride. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
i'm curious what constitutes "all" the gear in the acronym ATGATT. is it all the best gear that is available to us in the marketplace, or "only" all the gear that a rider happens to own? i ask because i continually see pix on BadWeB (including from last weekend's Buelltoberfast event) of riders who are not wearing full gear (either leather or textile) while honking their machines around a corner for the assembled photogs and rah-rah's. not that there's anything wrong with any of that, but can a person vehemently advocate ATGATT while wearing jeans and/or non-moto-specific footwear when they ride? what exactly is ATGATT? FB | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Jeans ain't ATGATT. If you'd go into your closet and pull it out to wear to go out to dinner not riding a motorcycle, it probably isn't protective. Textile or Leather. Motorcycle specific. Everything else is fashion. Then again. Nazi here. I wear hip pads, knee pads, racing boots, elbow pads, shoulder pads, and full race spec back protector. When I have extra money, I shop for gear first. | ||
| Buellerandy |
To me, that reads AMSGATT  (All My Street Gear, All The Time) And I think most would agree that pertains to what you have for street stuff vs. track stuff. Street for me is a snell helmet, leather gloves, leather riding jacket, over-ankle boots- all the time or atleast as often as I can. Sometimes the stuff is still drying:P Eventually I want to add pants that can go over my jeans...probably go to an Adventure set. just my .02 on how I translate that acronym ATGATT | ||
| Oldog |
Jeans ain't ATGATT some times its all you can afford...... A previous description where all of the avaialble money goes to bike ownership, ( highschool kid flipping burgers, or colledge student waiting tables etc.) sorta precludes bucks for gear, as an alternative what about Kevlar jeans? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
some times its all you can afford...... Understood. I'm not making any judgments on anyone. I understand you wear what you can afford. I've been adding pieces over the last two years. In a crash, jeans will do virtually nothing to protect your legs. Therefore they are CLOTHES not GEAR. I hope to be able to afford full leathers this year. Then again, I hope to do a track day soon. | ||
| Nevrenuf |
when my brother inlaw got killed when he hit some girl that pulled out in front of him, all the gear in the world wouldn't have saved him. but on the other hand when my daughter got hit from the rear she saw pavement through her helmet but she didn't have gloves,jacket or heavy pants on. she does have scars to show for it. she was at a standstill even. bottom line, protect your self the best you can and as i learned ride responsibly. | ||
| Diablobrian |
I'm with F_b on what constitutes ATGATT. Jeans don't cut it, and khakis may as well be shorts for all the abrasion resistance they offer. If you can't afford the gear (IMHO) you can't afford to ride. Can you afford to miss work while you heal is the question to ask when considering whether the gear is "worth it". Personally I have mesh and leather riding pants, to go with leather, mesh and textile riding jackets to mix and match to suit the temperature and seriousness of the ride. There are situations where all the gear in the world wouldn't help you. We all know that, but there are far more instances where the gear will save you from a great deal of pain or even death. It makes NO sense to trust fate with your health and well-being instead of taking steps to protect yourself. FWIW I don't just "talk the talk" I have on many occasions purchased better gear for other riders with the only string attached being that they have to wear it when they ride.  You will never see me out riding without a zip-together riding jacket and pants. I also agree with F_b's view on "fashion" leather not making the cut for riding gear. It's better than nothing, but the construction methods are different and the seams on the garment leather will come apart way too easily. I've seen it. |
