| Author | Message | ||
     Mikef5000 |
Like I said several months ago.....I could never picture a dirt bike sitting side by side with a 30k cruiser. Apparently neither could Harley. | ||
| Rick_a |
You can still own this American dirt bike (here in supermoto guise):  | ||
| Brumbear |
I am indifferent I say just outfit the tt for enduro riding from the start and see how it fairs. There is increasingly less area to ride a dirtbike here in nj anyway. There are still some good places but not nearly as many as 10 years ago forget about when I was a kid. So I feel for the young group but its not thst big a deal to me. | ||
| Tom_b |
i also gotta say i'm not upset about the news. they should stay with the uly and the street bikes. why get into a market of well established dependable bikes with a totally unproven design and buells questionable reliability. | ||
| Diablobrian |
My brother just bought himself a mini-motard (a 250) Honda to start practicing and racing to prepare for the coming of the Buell race bikes in the Motard series. He just bought it a few weeks ago. He and I are not made of money and he made a pretty big (for us) monetary commitment based on Buell giving their word that they would be building a 400/450cc competitive dirt bike that could then be converted for motard use. This is a pretty big let down. (Message edited by diablobrian on September 26, 2007) | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Could he not do something modifying a Blast? Or is it a bit heavy for that? Not taking the mick, but if he's dead set on a Buell motard single, looks like that's his only bet. | ||
| Phatkidwit1eye |
Oh well...I know a few companies who want my money more than Buell/HD does. | ||
| Mikej |
There's more to the story. 2008 is going to be very interesting on many levels. That's all I can say.  As to the future of a Buell dirt bike, I know nothing.  | ||
| Glitch |
Thanks so much for that insightful post Mike!  Could you be a bit more cryptic?  | ||
| Coal400 |
Maybe they are using the resources left from the dirtbike to make an 1125s? | ||
| Rick_a |
Word is they had a couple prototypes built...I wouldn't mind havin' a look at those. According to an Anony to Speed TV: "It will be a 450, and the engine is being made by Rotax,” the source said. “They showed an artist’s rendering of the bike, and I know they have been riding prototypes already, so I wouldn’t be surprised if we see it sooner than that. I mean, why would I as a dealer care now about what they were going to be making in 2009? Our concern as a dealer is that it could end up just like their VR1000 Superbike program, where the bike was competitive with what was on the track while it was a prototype, but by the time they went racing with it, it was obsolete. But they have assured us that will not be the case this time.” | ||
| Mikej |
Sorry, but nope, I like me feet attached below my ankles.  If you're in town next summer I can maybe say more, or if I'm down that way between now and then then we could meet at your club house. Always wanted to visit there someday.  | ||
| Court |
There's more to the story. 2008 is going to be very interesting on many levels. | ||
| Rick_a |
Hell yeah...heavy and underpowered. C&J makes a sweet dirt track frame for 'em, though. They were using 'em as short track bikes for a while...don't know if they still are. Reportedly they were great on slick tracks. | ||
| Glitch |
Always wanted to visit there someday. The first round is on me.  | ||
| X1glider |
I never understood how this could be successful. You couldn't get the majority of dealerships to accept the red headed stepchild Buell street bikes..why would they be supportive of a dirt bike and even "try" to move them? Especially if they get "forced" to take it on if they want more chrome steed inventory. That kind of bully tactic is probably a big reason HD dealers don't give a damn about the Buell line up as it is. Why throw another log onto the fire? I'm sure the Buell/Rotax partnership can make a fine bike but the problem is at the dealer level and I also just can't see people giving up the red, blue, yellow, green and orange bikes. Here's my take on it... Buell always says "you can't ride a spec sheet." They build a fine street bike for real riders. Why not build a dirt bike for real riders? Why feed yourself to the lions right away? And price point...Buell would have to at least match KTM, which is already $1k more than a japanese equivalent. I'm sure the BMW would be at least $1k more than KTM. I don't see Americans buying BMW dirt bikes...maybe 100 max. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
SUMNA BiATCH! I take two measly days off to go ride and stay out of the dealership and I come back to this announcement. Talk about kicked in the stones. I cant believe that I am going to have to go to KTM to get my dirt fix now. (at least they are orange) Feels just like when you got dumped by the pretty cheerleader that led you on all football season.... Ok maybe that is just my own personal hell there too. Where is my therapy couch. Just F-n Grumpy..... Say Anony, were there any proof of concept vehicles built ? ;) | ||
| José_quiñones |
Why buy the cow....
Listen to the interview here: http://www.horsepowermarketing.com/2007/02/26/r-ha rfiel-interviews-frank-white-of-atk (Message edited by josé_quiñones on September 27, 2007) | ||
| José_quiñones |
The rotax 450 engine won't sit on a shelf either... http://www.can-amds450.com | ||
| Cityxslicker |
it does smack of the Thunder Mountain licensing agreement. Have somebody else build in a direction that the factory wont go. It will be a big deal being able to service, get parts, and get inventory for these bikes. Still eying KTM | ||
| X1glider |
First...WTF is a "anti-tension kutentraub"?  2nd...this doesn't surprise me...there have been select HD dealers selling their quads for years. Just depends on the demographic. Just like some sell chainsaws and snowlowers from Husky. But this is the dealer level. Has nothing at all to do with HD MoCo. | ||
| Rick_a |
ATK has gone a long way in improving the Cannondale and making it their own...however, I'm not too keen on fuel injection on an offroad bike. Those bikes do have a lot of features that impress me. They're pretty much right on par with the competition...the enduros, anyway. http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Article_Page.aspx?Ar ticleID=3319&Page=2 The Honda CRF450X looks pretty good to me, too. | ||
| Mikej |
I had to look it up, couldn't find a clear answer on either the marketing site or on ATK's site, finally found an answer on a remote control model site of all places. An anti-tension kutentraub is basically a chain tensioner sort of like the XB has to give the chain a false central pivot point to get better equalized chain tension while the swing arm travels up and down relative to the rest of the bike. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure. | ||
| Rick_a |
Taken from another discussion forum: ATK motorcycles (including Avenger MX) have made many attempts to relieve the chain tension increase of compressing suspension. The founder of ATK invented a device called the Anti-Tension-Kutentraub, which was later marketed by Boyeson as the AMP Link. It placed an idler sprocket on the swingarm, above the pivot, to trick the chain into thinking that was the countershaft. Now, this system isn't sharing the same axis as the swingarm pivot, but the distance between the idler and the rear sprocket was the same as the distance between the rear axle and the swingarm pivot. | ||
| Soloyosh |
Perhaps Can Am will release it in a bike in the future. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"Harley-Davidson Shuts Down Buell MX Bike Project" I've said it once, I'll say it again. Harley is nothing but a bunch of bean counters now. Its all about the money. Just like the new 1125r motor. Its not about performance, its about how to do things the cheapest way while still getting their 50-some% margin. If they could get their money, Buell's would be mouse on a treadmill driven. I think this shows everybody here how much pull HD has over Buell. Sad, but true. | ||
| Buellshyter |
I'm getting more confused by the minute.  | ||
| Mikemax |
If Buell, or at least Harley, didn't worry about margins they would not have the cash for new designs and longer term would go out of business. They are not a bad thing.... | ||
| Dizzle |
Chinashop, what is it about the 1125R engine that isn't about performance? Oh, yeah.... all the features that make it cheaper to maintain. | ||
| Court |
I guess I'm repeating the loosely recalled Dave Gess quote for about the 4th time . . . but "Harley-Davidson is headed WFO for a cliff and no one in the cockpit knows how to stop". The folks, these days in charge, were but middle managers in the days when real businessmen and women were turning the company around. They are nice folks who've never had to pave their own road. If they have a mantra it's "don't change anything". In the past, doing more of the same thing yielded record profits. Change is in the wind as HD adopts a management style that embraces doing anything to simply maintaining the ability to say "increasing earnings". When you, start "creating" the quarters results by looking at the numbers 2 months out and figuring where to abate costs rather than increase income you get on a slippery slope. Investment and vision would be welcome. It will be an interesting trip. I think you'll be seeing a couple key folks leave HD in disgust over lack of leadership. Documentary of the VROD my ass. When values leave, profit follows. |
