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Newfie_buell
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 06:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

We have a new Blast thats not starting at times!

There is good fuel in it and all it does is crank over and not start. You can also smell gasoline in the exhaust system. Sometimes it will start other times it won't. If it does start after being left overnight then there is no trouble starting the remainder of the day. It only happens on the first time start up.

The owners manual says to change the oil from the 20W50 to 10W40 in cooler climates.

Can someone offer any ideas on this.

Also where do I drain the oil from, I have really not checked it out yet.
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Crusty
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 09:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I doubt that the viscosity of the oil is a factor in your starting problem. Do you shut the gas off when the motor isn't running? When it won't start, pull the spark plug and check to see if you're getting spark. If you're getting spark, then the float in the carb may be bad, or the needle may not be seating properly, letting too much gas into the cylinder and flooding it.
To change the oil, look on the left side of the bike near the passenger foot peg. You'll see two hoses with plastic plugs in the ends. One drains the engine oil, the other drains the spooge from the air box. Drain them both.
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Ezblast
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 09:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Is it new to the owner or new new? - theres reasons for this question.. I agree with Crusty on the rest..

Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ



edited by ezblast on June 13, 2003
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S320002
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Newfie,
Check all your low voltage ignition coil connections to make sure they are clean and tight. Also check the coil to plug wire for signs of corrosion. If you haven't changed the spark plug lately now would be a good time to do it.
Other likely culprits would be sidestand safety switch and the kill switch connections. Let us know what you find.

Greg
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Ezblast
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 10:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

If its new new - the switches are more likely to be the culprit - But the above covers everything..

Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ
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Newfie_buell
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 04:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Brand Spanking New!!!!!!

Only happens when the temp is below 10 degrees celsius. Once its out in the sun and warms up a bit usually starts.

Real Funny Problem.

We are trying it out as a Training Course Bike but so far its not working out. Starting Problem.

I will try the above and post.
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Fssnoc2501
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 08:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Newfie,

Is being started for very short periods then shut off then attempted to start again? If this is the case especially at colder temps, then the problem is most likely the "auto-enrichener". This little device is fairly easily confused especially in colder temps if the bike is not warmed up fully. The fix is to go back to a good old manual choke if this is the case.

The "auto-enrichener" is unique to the Blast and has caused some problems in fowling plugs because of it's working. Dad found this out when using it for a coffee shop scooter. Rejetting the carb seemed to help his but hasn't cured it al together.

Ray
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S320002
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Newfie,
I once had a Mini Cooper that had a very similar problem. It would start fine until the temp dropped below freezing, then it refused to fire.
After several frustrating episodes of non-starts I noticed the coil was dented. I replaced the coil and never had the problem again. I also noticed that the plugs burned cleaner. Apparently the dent had shorted some of the secondary windings thus dropping the output voltage enough to cause the problem.
It sounds like you may have a similar problem.
Some automotive shops have coil testers. I don't know exactly what your output should be but I would guess it should be 40,000+ volts.

Greg
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Newfie_buell
Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 08:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Still No Bloody Go Again.

Can someone give me the resistance values for the coil on the primary winding and the secondary winding.

The owners manual indicates to use a lighter weight oil in temps lower than 5degrees celsius, we also put 10W40 oil in it and still no go.

No Spark - after the problem on Saturday when I put the bike out in the sun after about an hour the damm thing started.

Any ideas
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Blake
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 01:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Kickstand safety switch.
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Ezblast
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 12:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Check battery to coil,hair line wire break would act like that also - even a plug wire - also the tilt safety switch - though mine never worked anyway - you got fuel - you got air - got to be fire - got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ
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Newfie_buell
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 09:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Tilt Safety Switch,

OK

Where is it and how do I find it!!!!!!!!

Is there a sensor on the Carb for temperature that will activate the automatic choke and cut the ignition?
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Jprovo
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 11:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Newfie,

The tilt safety switch is on the back of the tail section, look under the tail section next to the top of the battery. I don't know if it's normally open or normally closed, or if it has a known resistance value. I'll check my manual when I get home.

James
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Jprovo
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 12:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Newfie,

If it's no spark thats the problem, forget the auto enrichener, I don't think that that is your problem. The ignition circuit looks fairly straight forward, so hopefully I can help.

First off, here is the coil data you wanted:
Primary Circuit: 0.4-0.6 ohms (terminals A & B)
Secondart Circuit: 7,720-9,440 ohms (terminal C & plug connection)
To get to the coil, Remove the tank cover: One 7/16 bolt on the rear, and the the ring under the dipstick hold the tank cover on. Remove the right side intake cover (two #27 screws). With the coil on the bike, and you facing the left side of the bike, the pin closest to you is C, the pin farthest away is A.

If the coil checks out, chew on this:
All the sidestand switch, the clutch switch and the neutral switch do is provide ground to the ignition (all have unique paths). So, if the bike is in neutral, the clutch is pulled in, and the kickstand is up, and still no spark (bike cranks), look elswhere besides those three switches.

Check out the fuses and diodes, and I think that the next culprit would be the bank angle sensor (tilt safety switch). The bank angle sensor has three wires going into it. Two are inputs, and one is an output to the ignition module. Pin C (W/Bk) should be keyed hot (handlebar switch controlled). Pin B (TN/Y) should be ground controlled by the neutral, clutch or sidestand switch. Pin A (LGN/GY) should be an output signal to the ignition module of 0.6-0.8 VDC. You should be able to measure the output voltage at the six pin connector to the rear of the coil, above the air intake on the right side of the bike. Pin 5 is the output signal of 0.6-0.8 VDC (LGN/GY), pin 6 is ground.

I hope that this helps you figure out the problem, all Buells deserve to be ridden!

James
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Fssnoc2501
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 08:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

James,

Great info, in fact copied to my fix the Blast file. The only thing I would like for you to consider, fouled plug, no fire. Never forgive the auto enrichener when the choke was best used when controlled by a thinking man, not the expansion of heat.

Ray
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Jprovo
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 09:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Newfie,

Any luck??

Ray,

I agree, a gas fouled plug could easily cause starting problems. My friggin lawnmower does it all the time, I usuall realise it's happened around the 150th pull, and I wise up and pull the plug and dry it off (usually burning myself in the process :)).

It's too bad that the enrichener is on the wrong side of the bike to make a little manual over-ride with a plunger to replace it.

Here's a thought: I'm guessing that your Dad might have easier starting if the enrichener was disabled (pre-heated). Looking at the wiring diagram, it looks like there is a orange and a violet/orange wire going to the enrichener. The orange looks like keyed power, and the violet/orange looks like ground from the ignition module. I think that if you make the violet/orange a manually switched ground (splice it in tandem with the existing wiring), you could preheat the auto enrichener, and disable it. That way if you leave the bike parked for only an hour of so, you could toggle the switch, wait a minute, and start up without worrying about the enrichener flooding the bike.

James
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Newfie_buell
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 11:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The funny thing is the weather is now warm and the bike is starting great.

When the temperature drops below 5 celsius is when there is absolutely no spark, plenty of fuell, air but no spark.

I wonder if the auto enrichener has something to do with the ignition.

I think I will have to break down and get a manual.
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Ezblast
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 09:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Newfie buell - I'd be the first to say that I'm a newbe compared to most of the engineering minds here but two things come to mind because of a personal observation and an old personal experience. First - I cruise all the Boards that even mention the Blast - and I have noticed a small - about six people at one board and three at another and a couple rounding out the rest - that have all gotten new Blasts and all found themselves with bad coils soon after purchase - all were swaped out no questions and I'm guessing that perhaps the factory could have installed a case of bad coils without realizing it, or maybe the batch hit the floor too rough on the bottom of a pallet befor install - stuff happens - another thought goes back to my VW days and a coil wire with a hair line break that you couldn't see or detect when warm, but became evedent in the morn when the temp. was real cold or wet weather - that slightest gap was then too much for the spark to leap - the warm weather - read most the time acually hid the condition because it would start when it was warm out! - lol - I know it isn't much but its what I know - and the first thing I would be suspect of - if everything else is tight and clean (plug, terminal wires, fuses, conections) - imho - got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ
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S320002
Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 02:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Newfie,
Is it still starting? If it's a bad coil you are probably losing performance even if it is starting. If you can find some place to check the output voltage I would definitely do it.
Please let us know what you find.

Greg
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Newfie_buell
Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 08:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I will keep ya posted,

But the damm thing is perfect now. The weather is warm.

I have to say that the Blast is one hell of a bike to ride. Its a "Blast"

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Jprovo
Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 11:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Newfie,

I'm glad that you enjoy the Blast. It's amazing how well everything on the bike works.

James
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