| Author | Message | ||
     Nondual |
Earlier in the thread, I talked about which cruisers I thought were better, but here goes: V-Max M109 R Rocket III Why do I believe these are better? The M109 R uses some of the same tech that Suz uses in the Hayabusa. Kudos! The V-Max is classic bad-*** - it looks distinctive and I believe it has a fairly good quality record. The Rocket III I like just because it's not a Harley..LOL! I don't even know what the mid-to-late 90's cruisers ARE. I'm not interested in mid-to-late-90s cruisers - I'm interested in what's available TODAY. TODAY, I'd get the V-max - Yes, it IS a cruiser as much as the Nightrod is a cruiser. Here's the thing though and I think the reason why I'm so anti-cruiser: I see too much of what I don't like about people in the Harley crowd. Insta-bikers, the anti-helmet nutjobs. It's like these soft-in-the-belly, middle-aged, never-really-challenged-nothing guys think they're part of Hell's Angels all of a sudden because they got a Harley. These guys would NEVER buy a non-Harley cruiser, because a non-Harley cruiser would never satisfy the 'image' requirements these guys are after. | ||
| Bads1 |
The V-Max a cruiser. I guess most would Classify it as one. In 1985 it was a Muscle Bike. It has never been tested against other V-twin's and it has no competition. As a past owner of a V-Max its bad on gas,terrible HWY bike no passenger comfort. It is a city bike through and through. I bought mine back in 88. It was a left over 86 model. Its not a cruiser.... its a Muscle Bike. (Message edited by bads1 on September 06, 2007) | ||
| Djkaplan |
My father has never had an American bike. He rides a Goldwing now, but his bike before that was the only 'cruiser' he's ever bought... Kawasaki Nomad 1500  The bike was years out of warranty when a plastic oil-pump drive gear broke and the engine locked up. He took it to the local Kawasaki dealer and they informed him that the factory would cover the cost of rebuilding or replacing the engine. The bike had 60,000 miles on it at the time and was 5 years old. The engine was totally wasted, so the replaced it and didn't even charge him for an oil change. He rode the bike two more years and sold it. He really didn't even want the Goldwing... | ||
| Road_thing |
ND, while I think I understand part of what you're saying, does it really make sense to generalize about the "Harley crowd?" How many HD owners are there--I have no idea, but it's probably in the millions, and I think even you would have to agree that that they're not all "...Insta-bikers, the anti-helmet nutjobs... ...soft-in-the-belly, middle-aged, never-really-challenged-nothing guys think they're part of Hell's Angels all of a sudden because they got a Harley." Making a negative, inaccurate generalization about a group of that size, then saying that their brand of choice is crap because you don't like the people that ride it not a well-thought position from which to launch a debate. rt besides, that dig about being middle-aged and soft in the belly hit a little too close to home for me.... | ||
| Mikej |
Funny in an interesting way, I went to a local dealership or two and then downtown to their central gathering place for the recent milwaukeerally.com event. Out of all the people there I don't recall seeing anyone I'd classify as "Insta-biker" types. Sure there were some soft bellied riders there, but they had probably just bought their bikes for fun casual rides and a reason to go have some fun and listen to some music, they might head up to the H-D event in Tomahawk in a few weeks from now but that would probably be the farthest they ever ride their bikes to a destination, and there's nothing wrong with that. I saw some Patriot Riders there, none of them looked like Insta-bikers, most looked like they put 10,000-30,000 miles a year on their bikes though, don't know why exactly but that's just how they looked. Saw one goofball walking around like a goofball with a huge goofy grin on his face and like he might be prospecting from some local club, or else he was just goofy and having some fun listening to music. Walking around looking at the bikes, sure most were Harley-Davidson brand, but there were a few sport bikes, a few non-H-D cruisers and baggers, and the usual assortment of older bikes. No real "attitudes" displayed, just people out having a beer or soda and listening to the music and talking and dancing and people watching and bench racing and the general whatnot of life. Maybe because it's a local multi-dealership sponsored annual event that maybe we don't get the "Insta-bikers" here, sure the insta-bikers are in the area, but I've only found them every once in awhile and they are definitely in the minority around here from my vantage point. During the H-D 100th gathering though I did see a much higher percentage of general mayhem-types and insta-biker types, but most of them were just overly-lubed up and most likely shouldn't have been riding and probably shouldn't have even been walking by that point. V-Max: Barhopper? yep. Beast? yep. Cruiser? not in my opinion.  Rocket III: Barhoppers? yep. Beast? yep. Cruiser? not in my opinion.  M109 R : Barhopper? could be. Beast? not really. Cruiser? could be. V-Rod clone? yep.  The V-Max and the Rocket III are what I would call Muscle Bikes, not cruisers, not that there's anything wrong with using them as cruisers. For these two a comparable H-D would be the new "Rocker" model, even with it's wierd-ass seat setup.  It's all opinion anyway. Buy what works for you and buy what trips your personal trigger, in the end that's all that matters. If someone else doesn't like your choice then have them buy your next bike for you, or hang around with someone else who respects your personal freedom to choose what you like regardless of what they like. You'll never figure out why someone buys what they buy when in your own mind there are better choices, c'est la vie, that's life, and that's why it's good to have choices. Do you want fries with that? | ||
| Gregtonn |
I see from your comments that you're shooting "straight from the lip". I had hoped that you might give more thought to your answers. The second question is especially telling. It speaks to reliability and retained value. "I see too much of what I don't like about people in the Harley crowd. Insta-bikers, the anti-helmet nutjobs. It's like these soft-in-the-belly, middle-aged, never-really-challenged-nothing guys think they're part of Hell's Angels all of a sudden because they got a Harley. These guys would NEVER buy a non-Harley cruiser, because a non-Harley cruiser would never satisfy the 'image' requirements these guys are after." As an RN I expect you have had some experience with being stereotyped. Aren't they usually over-weight, middle-aged women with varicose veins who wear comfortable white shoes? And don't they characterize motorcycle riders as "brain dead organ donors". While I have a great deal of experience with HD riders, including my three brothers, I have never spent the night in a hospital. Are the nurse stereotypes accurate? G. | ||
| Xl1200r |
The Rocket III I like just because it's not a Harley..LOL! Can you explain to me how liking a bike because it's NOT a Harley is any different that liking a bike because it IS a Harely? TODAY, I'd get the V-max - Yes, it IS a cruiser as much as the Nightrod is a cruiser. The V-Max is a muscle bike, no more arguing. Check the Yamaha website - they even refer to it as a muscle bike. BTW - if you want to spend over $11,000 on finiky 22-year-old technology, be my guest. I think that bike got an upgrade in 1993 and that was it (brakes and suspension). The Nightrod is a power cruiser. The street rod is a muscle bike. | ||
| Bads1 |
While I have a great deal of experience with HD riders, including my three brothers, I have never spent the night in a hospital. Are the nurse stereotypes accurate? I beg to differ. My wife is a member here of a few years and a Buell rider. She doesn't think that way or the 5 others that she work's with. But on the other hand. Maybe ER nurses could look at it that way because they see the direct after math of most accidents. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I always wondered why the musclebike category never really took off. I could kind of see the appeal of something brutally fast and quick with dragstrip styling cues, but it's essentially a one bike category. I remember the Honda Magna and Kawasaki Eliminator in the field for awhile, but Mr Max chased them from the market. Musclebikes seem like a category ripe for US sales if there ever was one. If one manufacturer would come out with a dragstrip inspired uber-musclebike that could keep up with a fully faired Busa or 14 in a quarter mile, I think it would sell big here in the States. But, alas... no such bike exists. The closest thing is the V-Max, but Yamaha never changed a good thing and the bike stayed 1986 fast (fast then, slow now) until the end. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
While I suggested that ND start this thread, I really can't think of anything to add that might be informative.(Hey, but that's never stopped me in the past!) Many vehicles...HD, BMW, Porsche, to name a few... inspire a fanatical loyalty that can defy common sense. There's nothing inherently wrong with this. That is, until, one side or the other begins attacking the other's choice just because... well, I don't know why. It seems that most anti-HD opinions smack of empiricism. That is, little to no personal experience, but loads of anecdotal stuff from "friends," "neighbors," and "a guy I talked to." I've gotten to the point where, when one of those characters is introduced, I tune out. As the largest segment of the U.S. motorcycle-buying public (this is slowly changing, btw), cruisers owners are continually at odds with each other as re the "best" one. The difficulty with this is that while high-performance (whatever that means)cruisers are all the rage, that is still not the primary reason for purchase. Nope, it's the subjective, touchy-feely stuff that sells cruisers. Given this high level of subjectivity, it would be impossible (tho the mags keep trying) to determine the "best cruiser." As with wives, the "best" is the one that makes you happy. Parts of the Harley contingent are truly a pain-in-the-butt; I avoid them. However, they are no more so than Star owners, BMW buyers, M109 fanatics... ad infinitum. The Harley dress code, as it were, continually comes under fire. No doubt, some of it is ludicrous. But what about the sportbike rider in $2K leathers,and $600 helmet who really can't ride? Or how about the Goldwing couple with matched polyester pulling a trailer emblazoned with a mural that's reflected in a similar panel on the fairing. Silly, maybe. Harmless, certainly. I ride a Road Glide... have had a couple of them, will probably get another. I like this motorcycle for reasons I probably don't understand, nor try to. I don't prefer most Japanese tourers and cruisers for, admittedly, a silly reason: the numerous plastic panels that those companies feel obliged to place over various bare metal bits. Flick a fingernail against some of the rocker boxes; might surprise you how many of them are plastic. The most egregious of these (Sorry, I'm about to offend someone, I'm sure) is the Suzuki M109. To my eye, this is a hideous-looking motorcycle. A bad motorcycle? Not at all, it's based on very solid mechanicals. I just don't like it.Harley tried that once. Anyone remember the (not sure I remember the exact name) "Street Stalker" kits? Just about as anti-Harley as you can get. Were I to go out and purchase a Japanese motorcyle today, it would be the new Concours. BTW, I just did a test on the '08 Dyna "Fat Bob". What a surprise. I had all my guns cocked ready to fire off the reasons why I didn't like this bike (drag bars treuly suck), but came away from it raving. (Message edited by Regkittrelle on September 06, 2007) | ||
| Cowboy |
Soft in the belly just dont cut it, I am way past mid age and I ride a buell and a v-rod and I pass a hell of a lot of riders younger than me. by the way on both bikes. I thank it is more what is above the tank than below it. (how does 30,000 miles a year grab you.) | ||
| Bads1 |
bike stayed 1986 fast (fast then, slow now) until the end. Actually the 85-86 models were up on HP. 1987 they were not produced and 88 they had alot of epa differences that drew power from them. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Bads1, My point exactly. Stereotypes are the poorly considered opinions of the ill informed based on inaccurate information. Greg | ||
| Nondual |
Check the Yamah- oh, wait, it's the 'Star' website, isn't it? 'Star' is the 'cruiser' section of Yamaha now. The V-Max is a cruiser. I'm not stereotyping all Harley owners. Most of you are cool....but the real, total morons who AREN'T squids gravitate to Harley. Therefore, you can avoid them entirely in the cruiser world simply by avoiding Harleys. Posers won't buy any other cruiser because it won't achieve the poser's aim. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
I'll give you this, ND, you're consistent. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Check the Yamah- oh, wait, it's the 'Star' website, isn't it? 'Star' is the 'cruiser' section of Yamaha now. The V-Max is a cruiser. The "Star" website is for the non-sport bikes. You ever read the desciption on the damned thing?  | ||
| Nondual |
You know what, maybe I need to reconsider... It's just that parts of the 'Harley lifestyle' repulse me so completely. It's hard for me to place exactly where and when I started to feel this way about Harley folks... I hate drunk riding, the ones I've met who are most tolerant of this practice have been Harley riders. I don't understand why you would buy a $20k bike and then trailer it three hours to an event. I've never met a sport rider who was anti-helmet (I'm not saying they don't exist), but I've met lots of Harley folks who were anti-helmet. I hate the 'Loud Pipes Save Lives' credo..I call bull**** - safe riding saves lives. I know squids are just as annoying. I see too many kids with no safety gear other than a helmet, riding in shorts, an A-shirt, and sandals. The thing is, squids are all across the sportsbike range. They're on Yamahas, Suzukis, Hondas, etc. You can't avoid 80% of them by avoiding one bike brand like you can avoid 80% of the annoying cruiser people by staying away from Harley. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"I'm not stereotyping all Harley owners. Most of you are cool....but the real, total morons who AREN'T squids gravitate to Harley." I see plenty of clowns riding everything. | ||
| Bads1 |
ND Yamaha listed as a Muscle bike. All the V-Max clubs call it the same. Calling it a cruiser is a no no. In 85 thats how it was introduced. But the again you were 13 years old. You couldn't of even new what a V-Max was at that time. You may have at that age been more interested in cupping your first Boobie and getting to second base.lol | ||
| Cataract2 |
Come down to Fl, the no gear wearers are pretty even no matter what brand or bike they ride. | ||
| Mikej |
I've met plenty of morons (or Moreons) who were riding non-Harleys. In fact most of the motorcycle riding morons I've met were on non-harleys. In fact, in my version of "facts", morons don't seem to be Marque-dependent, they seem to ride whatever they haven't crashed and destroyed yet or whatever they can afford to insure or whatever they can bum a ride on. I got curious and clicked your profile, according to that you're in Los Angeles. I thought everybody in Los Angeles drove low riders and lived on the beach or in a mudslide canyon and was an aspiring actor or rock star. ....  .... Has the shooting stopped? .... Stereotypes, you don't need headphones to find them. And for the record, I lived (if you could call it that) for 9 years in Costa Mesa and visited L.A. many times. Even drove around Boyle Heights (by accident) a few times late at night just wandering around taking photos of buildings and stuff. I once picked up a friend on a long layover at LAX to go play a short round of golf in Fullerton, so I just drove out on the Imperial Highway (which some may know goes through some, uh, questionable neighborhoods), I think he was more nervous than I was and was actually starting to duck low in the seat as we passed people just hanging around hanging out. Perhaps it isn't the types of people who buy Harleys so much as it is the types of people you focus upon. If you're deathly afraid of pitbulls then that's all you'll see and you'll totally miss all the other dogs out there. I think when I lived down in SoCal I probably saw more Moto Guzzis than Harleys on the roads, saw lots of sport bikes and road bikes and older bikes but not too many cruiser style harleys. About the only baggers I ever saw were Goldwings. Maybe it was a different time "back then", maybe things are different now. The way you type I was sort of thinking you lived in Daytona Beach, Florida or in Sturgis, S.D., would never have guessed you were in L.A. . There goes my stereotype of a Harley-basher right out the window. And with this I'm done with this thread, it's been fun, good night everybody  | ||
| Djkaplan |
Consider yourself blessed if you've never seen an idiot on a Japanese cruiser, then. There are plenty of them out there, too. | ||
| Nondual |
I just moved to LA recently. I'm from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan/Northern Wisconsin. You're right, there aren't many Harley riders in Hollywood. | ||
| Jackbequick |
"..(drag bars treuly suck)..." That might might not be treu. When I bought my used Dyna last year it had drag bars with both rise and pullback. I thought they looked silly, would not work for me, and was glad I was getting the original stock buckhorns back with the bike. Those drag bars had 7" of rise (including removable 1" spacers under them), 1-1/2" of pullback, and are 31" across the grips (outside to outside). I loved the width, real men use wide bars. Go watch some AMA flat track and count the clip ons... And I immediately noticed the natural hand and wrist angle was very comfortable. Hmmm, must be ergonomics... A little high but very comfortable. The more I think about it the buckhorns are more like wheelbarrow handles and make yo bend your hands outward from a natural angle. So I take the 1" spacers out and have been using them like that ever since. If I slouched in the saddle (no back rest) I am just pulling back on the bars slightly and loading my palms and fingers. Okay for a while but not a good thing. But if I straighten my back and lean forward a little I am much more comfortable. The drag bars are perfect for me and are actually improving my posture. :>) Sometime the stuff that you think looks silly is okay. Nondual, Have you ever spent an hour or two at a time on a H-D cruiser? Just a yes or no will do. Jack | ||
| Mikej |
There aren't many "riders" in Hollywood. Lots of bikes and scooters though, and lots of nice 'scenery' walking around, and nice weather, and other stuff. Opinions, like knowledge, are subject to change. (I guess I lied about being done with this thread. Some probably wish I was.)  And just in case you get lost down there, Hawaiian Gardens isn't a garden, per se. Have you been out to the Portuguese Bend area yet? Kind of neat in a geological way. Okay, now I'm done, really, (honest).  | ||
| Pammy |
"Posers won't buy any other cruiser because it won't achieve the poser's aim." You don't get out much, do yuh, son? I am surrounded by motorcycles and everything that goes with, every single day of the week, month and year. I have certainly not seen "it all", but I can say with confidence that I have seen alot. I have so many funny stories about posers on EVERY brand of motorcycle, cruisers, muscle bikes, sport bikes, customs, tourers...well, you get the picture. The only common denominator as I can tell is that they are mostly men. Do I think, in my logical mind(even though I am a woman), that every homo sapien on the planet with an extra appendage, is a poser? Nope. There are a lot out there but definitely not all... Before I get smote for being the president of the she-woman, man-haters club (or Hilary Clinton) I must make it clear that this was written soley about folks in the motorcycle fold. Like I always say...EVERYTHING is relative. In my limited experience, people who generalize as in posts above, don't have much to use for comparison. ND wait until you have soaked up much more of lifes lessons before you close your mind to them. Don't base your opinion on someone else's experience...that's no fun. | ||
| Pammy |
Man, I get distracted and the whole event gets turned around. Good for you ND... | ||
| Nondual |
I'm basing it on MY experience. In MY experience, cruisers attract the most posers. Most sport riders I've seen who aren't actually interested in riding get rid of their bikes right quick - because a crotch rocket just doesn't make you 'cool' except maybe to other sportbike riders. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
OK... to clarify my "...suck" comment. In Harleyworld, drag bars and forward controls often go together. This combination wraps my short self into a position that is uncomfortable and awkward if, for no other reasons forward controls have me straight-leggin' it. FC's do not offer what I consider a safe, controllable riding position... even if I were taller. The absolute worst example of this in the Harley line up is the "Night Train" and its drag bars and FCs. Kinda like taking your ex-wife to your current mother-in-law's for dinner: a really bad combination. Prior to riding the new "Fat Bob" I looked at the pictures. They showed a similar set-up to the NT. However, once I got the bike itself, it was fitted with mid-point controls. This is the first bike HD has offered which gives you an option of mid-point or forward controls. With the pegs in their proper place, and the drag bars slanted back, the 'Bob offered a very comfortable, secure riding position. Gee, even I can have my mind changed. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Are you "cool", ND? |
