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Archive through June 08, 2003Davegess30 06-08-03  09:46 am
         

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Court
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 10:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>>>> If that was over 50000 dollars I will eat my XB.

I'd love to hear Mr. Buell's comments and speculation about what $50K would have allowed. I recall a day when a local bank was causing Erik grief over a loan that many folks here could cover with a weeks pay.

No use trying to convince the nay-sayers, but I'd submit that Erik Buell was juggling LOTS more balls (a small minority of them related to strict motorcycle design/manufacturer) than Triumph was.

This takes nothing from Triumph who has established themselves as one of the "here to stay" marques. It does however obviate the possibility of drawing any conclusions drawn from a "how long they've been in business" basis.

What Erik has done has begun to be recognized by design and business journals. The motorcyclist community, and rightfully so, is concerned with the motorcycles Buell builds, not the wonder that they even exist.

Court
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Kevyn
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 05:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Lgpch,

...the Duc frame is much 'easier on the eye'

Ever stop to consider putting a Nallin/Wilson motor in a Duc frame?...
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Rocketman
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 07:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Triumph's CEO left to join Ducati.

Are you saying that John Bloor has left Triumph? You're pissed mate! John Bloor bought the rights to the Triumph name with a personal fortune he'd made, I believe in the construction industry. The $150 million Dave mentions I'm not party to (but I wouldn't be would I) but I very much doubt there's any truth in such a high figure. In any case, no matter who stumped up the dough John Bloor's neck was in the noose as well as his own money, just like Erik's eh? By the way, Triumph has come a long way since the 1996 Daytona. In fact their 2.3 litre cruiser is nearing production rumoured to be putting out 150lbs of stump pulling torque and over 150MPH in testing from a 660lb bike. Also rumoured is their new retro frame decal harking back to days of old MADE IN FUCKING ENGLAND

Rocket
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Imonabuss
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 08:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

No, Rocket, actually the John Bloor number is even higher as of the current moment. With enough searching you can find it. Truly, proof that it is wonderful to be rich, and sublime to be filthy rich.
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Rocketman
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 10:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

As of the current moment John Bloor's company is thriving but Dave said 'started' so that's 20 years or more ago. Dave also said 'Buell started with all the cash Erik could scrape together'. I guess John did too didn't he?

Rocket

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Blake
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 10:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Rocket,
What makes 150 mph so special for a 660 LB bike, especially one with a 2,300cc engine? Cool bike for sure, but nothing Earth shattering technology or performance wise.
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Ray_maines
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 11:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Right from the start, John Bloor set out to build a very high quality, reliable, dependable motorcycle. Some of Triumph's bikes have more successfully achieved that goals than others, but even the worst of them are more reliable than any Buell, save possibly the XB. Even then, the newest Triumph's are at least as dependable as the XB's. Maybe Triumph’s are boring, you could argue that, but they are dependable in a way that BMC can only dream of.

How long has it been since HDI bought out Erik Buell? Ten years, maybe? I'm sure HDI’s cash infusion was worth at least as much as John Bloor's personal fortune. So you could argue that Triumph has a 10 year head start on BMC. It will be interesting to see what BMC does in the next 10 years. Lets see if they catch up to where Triumph is now.

So, what did BMC do with their money? They began to use 7/8” handlebars and Japanese switch gear. What else? They put the header pipe under the frame rail. Did they build a 4 valve, DOHC, 140 h.p. three cylinder motor coupled to a slick shifting 6 speed transmission? Well, how about a clunky shifting 5 speed hooked to a 2 valve, 75 h.p. downsized Sportster mill? Hey, it's got hydraulic lifters, you save a fortune on valve adjustments.

God bless BMC for facing up to all the recall issues. Overall, it might have been better if the problems had been worked out before the product hit the sales room floor.
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Doctorgorpon
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 11:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Blake,
What makes 135mph so special for a 450lb bike, especially one with a 1200cc engine? Cool bike for sure, but nothing Earth shattering technology or performance wise.

It's all in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I gotta applaud what Triumph is doing lately. I always liked the triple Daytona, which absolutly howls on the track. A friend of mine has a '97 1200cc four cylinder Daytona and that thing is an absolute freight train. Other than a ZX-11, the fastest top speed bike I've ever been on. The new Bonneville is pretty close to a home run in my mind. The new 600cc Daytona just took first place in the Isle of Mann Junior TT and they had three of them in the top ten. Pretty impressive for a spanking new revised bike. And then the 2.3 litre triple. It's gonna be a stonking bike. Not quite my fancy, but somebody at Triumph is certainly pushing the envelope of the consumer market.

I don't want to sound trite and I have absolutely no idea how long it took Triumph to market test and then develop this machine but I bet they certainly brought it to market a hell of a lot faster than Harley could, even if Harley had taken the initiative. Certainly, I haven't read anything in any of the magazines about Triumph going to Porsche for engine help.

Good for Triumph, good for consumers. Now only if someone would do a proper Norton resurrection or Velocette perhaps. Velocette Venom has got to be one of the coolest monikers ever. And Thruxton how can you top a Thruxton?
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Blake
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 01:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Doc,
"What makes 135mph so special for a 450lb bike, especially one with a 1200cc engine?"
Absolutely nothing. Well, it is somewhat impressive considering it's engine architecture.

"Cool bike for sure, but nothing Earth shattering technology or performance wise."
Yep. Don't recall ever exclaiming otherwise.

Rocket exclaimed..."In fact their 2.3 litre cruiser is nearing production rumoured to be putting out 150lbs of stump pulling torque and over 150MPH in testing from a 660lb bike."

Top speed is independent of weight and with a 2.3 liter engine 150 mph is nothing to brag about. Interesting, yes. If it were a 1.2 liter two valve air-cooled pushrod production twin, it might be something to brag about. ;)


Ray,
I'm a fan of Triumph. I was also considering a Speed Triple when I purchased my first Buell back in January of '98 from Lone Star HD/Buell/Triumph, . A test ride on an S1 and a great deal on a Cyclone sold me on the Buell. After over 50,000 miles on Buells, I have no reason to regret my choice.
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Rocketman
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Over 150MPH 150lb's torque...............

the key word is CRUISER

What concerned me more was the misleading and suggestive nature of Courts comment regarding John Bloor's whereabouts. Its intention was nothing more than a put down of Triumph for whatever reason.


Rocket
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Crusty
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 06:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Fer Chrissakes, you're comparing oranges to asparagus when you compare Buells with Triumphs. The only thing they have in common is that they're not Japanese. They don't look like each other, they don't sound like each other and they sure as hell don't feel like each other.
I ride a Buell because it feels better than anything else out there. Triumph has taken on the Japanese by building a similar product. Buell has taken a cruiser engine (that feels infinitely better than an inline 4) and has given it some horsepower, made it handle well and stop properly. It's pretty much senseless to parallel the two. Each has their own philosophy, and each builds good motorcycles. Other than that, they're coming from and going to different places.
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Davegess
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 01:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Rocket Court is refering to someone below the feared and effective Mr. Bloor.

What Bloor done is remarkable and quite special. Not many people with his money would build factories. More lucrative and less risky to buy bonds.

H-D's investment in Buell is far below Bloor's in Triumph I am sure of that but don't have hard numbers. I will see what I can find.

The 150 million was just the startup number. Than Triumph lost money every year until quite recently. One of the nice things about being filthy rich is you can sp[end your money any way you like and not have to justify losses to anyone.

Dave

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Court
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 06:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The CEO of Triumph NA left to head Ducati.

This occurred amongst a myriad of interesting things surrounding Ducati's move from NJ to CA. There were similar changes in personnel in Italy as well.

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Rocketman
Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 08:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Capirossi wins Spanish Moto GP on V4 Buell. Amazing feat considering it's only Buells sixth race in the premier class.

Rocket
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Blake
Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 12:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

That was outstanding wasn't it. Way to go Ducati!

Hayden finished 9th. Expect very good things from young Nicky next year.
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Hans
Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 01:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

First profits for Rocketman with his new ice cooled tri-cycle.
Rocketman
Hans
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Vr1203
Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 08:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Funny how I still find Ducati a underdog?
And when they beat the mighty Honda, its great!
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Blake
Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 12:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Gotta love the Italians. If not for them, the world of prime time factory motorcycle racing would be 100% Japanese. Well, there's the KR/Proton and Foggy/Petronas teams too. Great article in the July RRW about Colin Edwards and his Aprilia efforts. Sounds like once they work the handling bugs out of that machine, the Texas Tornado will be fixin t'open up a big ole can o'whupass.
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Featheredfiend
Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 01:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"Gotta love the Italians." Mmmm. Olive oil, garlic, Verdi, Ducati.

Best,
featheredfiend
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 04:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Ferrari, Lamborgini, Aprilia, Guzzi, Benelli, ..., and more babes than you can shake a peperoni at...
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Court
Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 05:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Ahhhh...the babes AND their cars...

Kerry's Maserati


Neighbor's Toy
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