| Author | Message | ||
     Sshbsn |
I like the 900SS, well I REALLY like it after test riding one, but I don't care for much of the funky styling from other Ducatis. I looked at Ducs--and Porsche 911s--a few years ago and decided against both of them but not because they were too expensive. Although the attitude of the people who do buy them kind of turned me off... There's another thread in here somewhere that mentions the scarcity of US Duc dealerships. That could be incentive enough for HD, knowing that they have the most comprehensive dealer network in the world which could couple with one of the most desirable and enigmatic brands in the world to produce higher sales and rich profits. I don't think this would hurt Buell, in fact if current Buell dealers also got Ducati it might help both brands, kind of like how McDonald's and Burger King always build next to each other. | ||
| Danger_dave |
What a lot of column inches for nuffink! I think i might 'consider' scratching my left nut. Canada might 'consider' merging with the US too. | ||
| Glitch |
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| Madsx |
HD could merge with Duc and sell Buell back to Erik. Then we could finally get stand alone dealerships.  | ||
| Glitch |
After this past weekend, a 1098 is in my dream world. What a well put together bike that one is! The Super Moto? Wicked bad! I like a lot of the bikes Ducati offers. WRT them merging with Harley, it means nothing to Buell owners or H-D owners more than likely. The reason I say this is I see mergers and acquisitions quite often, since I work for the legal division of the world's largest soft drink producer. Case in point, when Minute Maid sold out, did Coca-Cola lose market share? Did Minute Maid? Did the Minute Maid stop producing product, lose product? Did Coke? No, no, no, and no. Both Coke, and Minute Maid grew. Merging doesn't mean anything more than re-arranging of management, well, a little more than that, but y'all get my point. If anyone needs to worry, it's not the customer as much as the employees, the bikes will continue being produced, America will probably see less expensive Ducatis and overseas will probably see less expensive Buells. It's a win win, if you ask me. And you didn't, so I'll go back to my corner and play with my ball of yarn... | ||
| L_je |
I don't care for the air-cooled Ducati powerplant. I can't speak to the other Duc engines, but I'd choose my 1203 any day over the 1000cc 2 Valve Duc engine. The new 1100cc air-cooled Duc engine is better, but I'd still choose the 1203 XB engine 6 days of the week. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I don't care for the air-cooled Ducati powerplant. I can't speak to the other Duc engines, but I'd choose my 1203 any day over the 1000cc 2 Valve Duc engine. The new 1100cc air-cooled Duc engine is better, but I'd still choose the 1203 XB engine 6 days of the week. That's only because it reminds you of 22.22% of a P&W R-1340.  | ||
| Smokescreen |
As to not liking every Ducati ever made... That's not what I said.  I stated how many people can honestly say there isn't a Ducati they like. You yourself said you like at least one. That was my point. Smokescreen | ||
| Ducxl |
I hope not.But if Harley-Davidson wanted to give Ducati money,Ducati could build another machine we want...again. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Let's look at this potential merger another way. This may be a way for HD/Buell to get a bigger market share in Europe. Let's face it motorcycles sales in the US are peanuts compared to MC sales over the pond. HD aligns with a well known European brand with existing sales/service support, and Ducati gets the benefit of the HD coffers. This merger may or may not have any serious effect on Buell, but HD is in the business of keeping shareholders happy, so if this allows them to sell more bikes regardless of final destination, then everybody is happy. | ||
| Naustin |
Buell and Ducati Dealerships? | ||
| Buellshyter |
What are some of those reasons if you don't mind telling? Price? Maintenance? Style? I know one person who doesn't like the Monster line, another that doesn't like the sound and a third that just doesn't care for them ( reason unknown)Personally, I think they are cool. It's all a matter of what you want and what you will put up with to be a part of something elite If I wanted something "elite", I'd skip the Duc and go straight for an MV Agusta. I don't see how a HD/Ducati merger would be a good thing for Buell. Ducati isn't going to hand over one of their motors to be put into a Buell. HD tends to be a tad on the snooty side and purchasing a world-class mark like Ducati would be in-line with HD thinking, imho | ||
| Buellshyter |
Case in point, when Minute Maid sold out, did Coca-Cola lose market share? Did Minute Maid? Did the Minute Maid stop producing product, lose product? Did Coke? No, no, no, and no. Correct me if I'm wrong but Minute Maid and Coke don't compete directly. One is a cola and the other makes fruit drinks. Buell and Ducati do compete directly. Many of the people that purchase Buells are also fans of Ducati. I dunno, maybe you're correct but I have to believe it would put Buell, a small company in comparison, at a disadvantage. We think Buell is treated like a step-child now, just wait till it has to compete with Ducati in the boardroom. | ||
| Glitch |
OK, How about any of the other soft drinks Coke has bought into? Or water bottlers? DASANI and Eva Water? Better analogy? Sorry for the apples and oranges. here's a list. You'll find many of the same kinds of drinks. To Coke a beverage is a beverage, it's what they market best. Biggest market share ever. I can see H-D B & D working rather well, and the consumer winning out with better priced bikes, with a larger choices too boot. Now if H-D bought Ducati, I wouldn't feel quite so optimistic. | ||
| Dbird29 |
It's all about distribution, Coke or bikes. | ||
| Rocketman |
It's all about distribution, coke or crack? Rocket | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
ok heres my thoughts and they fall right inline with th coke analogy but i will use cars instead. Ok look a such big car guys like ford, gm, christler and some of the jap companys too alot of the different brands under say gm for the sake of argument has many models that compete with each other very directly like say for instance the (yes i know they are no longer selling them) camero and firebird (which is actually the same car) they compete aginst each other but some people buy the firebird cuz they like the little differences from the camero and some like the camero for its little differences and theres others but in the end its more about viriety and the fact that some people might want a buell some may opt for the duc some may want a cruzer. I say it would be a beter way for HDI to more effectivly be able to step up to the level of the jap guys buy having a bike for evey facit of rider be it cruzers, street fighters, dirtbikes, standards, beginner bikes, and so on. Which by the way is something that neither duc, hd, nor buell has that the jap 4 do have so combining them would give them that variety but with 3 brands with better fit and finish than that of the jap 4. | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Sounds like HD/Aermacchi to me. That kind of deal. | ||
| Sshbsn |
I too think it would be good. First, I've never thought that Buell and Ducati directly compete despite some surface similarities. Second, adding Ducati to the family may broaden the minds of some HD dealers who currently resent sport bikes and the customers who purchase them (okay that one may be a stretch.) Third, even if Buell and Ducati directly compete on some level, it's obvious that Buell sometimes wins that competition or they wouldn't sell motorcycles. | ||
| Daves |
A Duc with fuel in the frame! | ||
| Kenb |
well it would make it easier to get parts for my future hypermotard then | ||
| Tommy_black_shark |
If Harley bought Ducati why would they need Buell? Also what would happen to Ducati a couple years down the road? They would probably have parts sourced from all over the world (asia) and lose most of their Italian heritage. The last "all Italian" Ducati was made in 1990. Since then they have had world sourced parts including Asian. | ||
| X1glider |
I can see something good coming out of a merger...and some bad. First let's look at what happened when Erik sold all but 1% of his share of Buell to HD. Buell bikes became platform based like HDs. 1 platform, 6-8 different models based on it. Therefore a wider market appeal, manufacturing costs went down, quality went up, profits went up, Buell stays in business antoher day and becomes a viable and prifitable entity in HD's corporate structure. The same thing can happen to Ducati. Currently, although they have a diverse product line, quality is spotty, manufacturing in costly and inefficient which means expensive bikes for the consumer and they still can't get themselves out of debt. With HD as a partner, they can learn to became a well oiled machine. Also, it may help Ducati gain a larger dealer network and HD dealers would then be multi-branded or have a separate building (which they'd probably put the Buells in as well), aside from Buells being in there. On that note, depending on where you live, some HD dealerships sell 4 wheelers. Another good thing is Ducati 1098s may be more affordable, slightly. The bad would be they'd lose their exotic status. The real bad would be, in order to get out of debt, HD may cut part or all of their racing program. Maybe they would scale it down and be more frugal about it. HD isn't stupid. They know racing is an important tool for developing a world class machine. HD develops their bikes from testing on the street, Ducati test at the track. You couldn't possibly build an awesome Ducati with street testing only...perhaps in the case of the multistrada, but no other. Another bad thing, cool bikes like the Hypermotard might never see the light of day because HD execs don't get it or believe the American public gets it. I've never been part of their surveys, or anyone else I know, so I fail to believe their market research isn't flawed. Who do they survey anyway? Only those who go to Sturgis or Daytona? Gotta survey those who bought other brands and models too if you want to steal business away from the competition. I'd still see a need for Buell. They're different, though the Duc S2R monster and City X might be competitors. Same with the Hypermotard and the Uly. But they're still different. | ||
| Fullpower |
Both ducati and buell make first class rolling stock. Both source components from first class suppliers. One example are the electric starters: both use Nippondenso starting motors, arguably the best obtainable. Another interesting point is that in this year of 2007 you have a choice of TWO different aircooled, 2 valve v-twin naked standard motorcycles. I have both XB and Monster in the garage, and they are both damn fine bikes, neither requiring any excuses. Enjoy the ride, it keeps getting better................ | ||
| Tommy_black_shark |
Another bad thing, cool bikes like the Hypermotard might never see the light of day because HD execs don't get it or believe the American public gets it. I've never been part of their surveys, or anyone else I know, so I fail to believe their market research isn't flawed. Who do they survey anyway? Only those who go to Sturgis or Daytona? Gotta survey those who bought other brands and models too if you want to steal business away from the competition. There are two ways to answer your question, first you are wrong. Harley does survey buyers of other brands. In fact Harley does some surveys where they specifically target motorcycle owners who have never owned a Harley. Second, HD is far and away the most successful motorcycle company in the world over the last 20 years. Their success is based to a very large degree on some of the best marketing by any manufacturer of any product over that period. A list of Harley's marketing blunders since parting ways with AMF would be very short. | ||
| Midknyte |
I don't see this as very realistic. There is no reason for Ducati to make a public announcement of their availablity to HD. It reads more like Duc saying to the rest of the world, "we're available". I would wonder if Polaris/Victory might consider a merger with them. They are interested in sportbikes (i.e. the failed hook-up with KTM. (which they are backing out of...)). | ||
| Glitch |
Another bad thing, cool bikes like the Hypermotard might never see the light of day because HD execs don't get it or believe the American public gets it. Merging means not that H-D would own Ducati. More of a partnership. That's why I said...Now if H-D bought Ducati, I wouldn't feel quite so optimistic. Merging isn't selling, nor is is overtaking. If this merge was to happen, Ducati wouldn't suddenly appear at H-D dealerships, and Buell Techs wouldn't suddenly be scratching their heads at Ducati head configurations, nor would Buells or Fat Boys show up on the showroom floors at a Ducati dealership in Italy. | ||
| Xbullet |
but if they did merge.... maybe we'd see a moto-gp heritage softail. .... .... .... .... ... ... .. .. . . . . . . . i crack myself up. | ||
| X1glider |
"There are two ways to answer your question, first you are wrong. Harley does survey buyers of other brands. In fact Harley does some surveys where they specifically target motorcycle owners who have never owned a Harley." Ok. Tell me where I am "wrong." I didn't specifically state that they don't survey buyers of other brands. I know they do. But how they do it is the real question. I know Willie G attends drag and flat track races, even some road races. A lot of his decisions are based up what he hears from people at these races and at rallys. Hence this year HD buyers got 8 more ci, a quieter tranny w/6 speeds, but kept the "clunk" of 1st gear like everyone seems to like, larger diameter forks, more rake and a wider rear tire. They also did away with adjustable suspensions and reduced ground clearance. But what have they done to actually entice buyers of Star roadliners and Kawasaki Mean Streaks to buy a HD? Or another type of bike altogether? Nothing really. So the people being surveyed are at rallys at random. You never hear of a survey on their website or in a magazine. Never heard anyone say they were approached out of the blue on the street either. Sounds to me like they are surveying the same type of people over and over. Perhaps they should survey the non-rally riders and trailer queens. The people who watch American Chopper and Biker build off is a very limited scope audience. "Second, HD is far and away the most successful motorcycle company in the world over the last 20 years. Their success is based to a very large degree on some of the best marketing by any manufacturer of any product over that period. A list of Harley's marketing blunders since parting ways with AMF would be very short." This is a rebuttal to something I said? I won't disagree with anything you said though. The only marketing blunder has been the majority of ads I've seen for Buells. Trying to run BRAG chapters the same way they run HOG chapters is another major blunder. | ||
| X1glider |
Merging means not that H-D would own Ducati. More of a partnership. That's why I said...Now if H-D bought Ducati, I wouldn't feel quite so optimistic. Merging isn't selling, nor is is overtaking. If this merge was to happen, Ducati wouldn't suddenly appear at H-D dealerships, and Buell Techs wouldn't suddenly be scratching their heads at Ducati head configurations, nor would Buells or Fat Boys show up on the showroom floors at a Ducati dealership in Italy. Never meant to suggest that HD would buy them and totally change them. But you have to understand that HD wouldn't do anything with Ducati if there wasn't something in it for them. That thing would be money. In order to make money HD would most likely have a say in how things are done and what will be done. HD didn't get rich by spending money on a motoGP team. They won't in the future either. They'd rather put those 10s of millions in the bank and share with the stockholders. They got rich by creating platform bikes, improving manufacturing and lots of P & A. They also got rich by selling a lifestyle. As for Ducs showing up in HD dealerships..unlikely yes. But HD might push for creating more dealerships for them if they would see profit potential. But the key word in a partnership between the two is still an "IF." And the answer is still "IF there's something in it for HD." I personally don't see anything happening at all. |
