| Author | Message | ||
     Ryker77 |
When the topic of a wall or a fence is mentioned most who like/benifit from cheap illegal workers will come back with: "a wall can't be built" "12 foot wall and I show you a 13 foot ladder" "too costly" The city of New Orleans and the surrounding areas have 350 miles of levee system. Which has been improved to hopefully stop hurricanes. We can stop the mighty ocean but not a 5' criminal? Cost - The Corps currently has more than a billion dollars approved by Congress to shore up levees and floodwalls that were not damaged by Katrina, and it has asked Congress for another $3.7 billion to improve the entire 350 miles of hurricane protection around New Orleans. So that puts into question the cost factor. When we will spend 1-4 BILLION on one city but are unable to protect the whole country. "$1.2 billion that Congress provided for an unspecified blend of fencing, vehicle barriers, lighting and technology such as ground-based radar, cameras and sensors." Time "Working seven days a week, 24 hours a day, the corps has built a massive new concrete wall along the canal that separates the Upper and Lower Ninth Wards. At two other sites where the levees failed, big floodgates are being installed. Corps officials recently surveyed the work. MAJ. GEN. RONALD JOHNSON, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers: I can tell you that we have met our objective to repair the damage to the 169 miles of the 350-mile system, hurricane protection system, which includes the levees and the floodwalls." Yet the supposed 800 miles fence has had many months to be built and only a few miles have been completed.(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15149231/) A wall can be built. Politics on both sides are playing for voters and will do as little as possible. | ||
| Spiderman |
The city of New Orleans and the surrounding areas have 350 miles of levee system. Which has been improved to hopefully stop hurricanes. We can stop the mighty ocean but not a 5' criminal? Well since the ocean is not a thinking person it isn't hard to stop. The question isn't about a wall, look at the Canada/American border. There isn't a wall there and we do not have a huge influx of illegal Canadian workers? We need to star sending them back and imposing harsher fines on buisnesses that hire illegals. That goes for all illegals not just Mexican... | ||
| Ryker77 |
The question isn't about a wall, look at the Canada/American border. There isn't a wall there and we do not have a huge influx of illegal Canadian workers? Just the ability of a infected person on the watch list to cross over. Thats sad. We need to star sending them back and imposing harsher fines on buisnesses that hire illegals. Yes that would cure some/most of the root of the problems. However for complete national security we need the ability to secure our borders. Canada can handle most of its issues but at some point we should also secure the northern border. The recent XDR -TB case is a reason to look at how un-secure we are. Mexico is a poor country with less than average medical standards or living conditions. Just think that instead of a nuke going on in NYC a terrorist group infected Mexico. The contagious/sick people would FLOOD into America seeking aid. While spreading the sickness. We spend soo much money on "terrorist" and the what if they get us. But near none on contagious dieases/virus. A secure border would at least slow down and buy some time to better prepare or prevent massive sickness. And serve dual purpose. STOP illegal drugs, stop illegals, etc etc | ||
| Midnightrider |
Just for fun - Go to Google Maps, enter "Sasabe, Arizona", click on the satellite photo option, then zoom in. I spent some time building a vehicle barrier along the border (versus a fence) there as part of Operation Jumpstart this Spring. Miles and miles and miles of desolate, rugged terrain. A fence can be built. It can also be disassembled overnight | ||
| Ryker77 |
The Berlin Wall wasn't disassembled overnight. | ||
| Spiderman |
The Berlin Wall wasn't disassembled overnight. You want to live in the same state as Berlin was in back then? | ||
| Midknyte |
ah, let's just take it over and get it over with... Vermont wants to secede anyway - we can keep the ol' fifty stars just as is 0,6671063.story?coll=ny-region-apconnecticut,http: //www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/connecticut/ny-b c-ct--vermontsecession0602jun02,0,6671063.story?co ll=ny-region-apconnecticut | ||
| Ryker77 |
You want to live in the same state as Berlin was in back then? Lol. I knew somebody would try and imply that. All I this thread is about is to dispute the false claims that open-unsecure-pro-illegal people state as fact. | ||
| Spiderman |
The problem is too divided. Build a Fence. Send em back. Both are good temp fixes but not solid, long lasting solutions. There need to be a mix of solid laws and penalties to deal with illegal alliens much like a three strike rule they have in Kali. There also needs to be HUGE penalties and fines for a buisness that harbors, pays and hires a illegal. I am all for legal immigration, without it you or I wouldn't be here! | ||
| Madduck |
My suggestion is to always to look for the obvious solution, the KISS system. I grade all solutions on one criteria, can I personally profit from this proposal. Congresses current plan fails miserably. I won't get a dime from it. My proposal is called "Tour of Canada". My neighbor has an 80 seat bus. the two of us fill it with illegal aliens. Drop em off in Canada, they are deported. A resonable fee for such a service should be around $2500/alien. Each alien consumes about $20,000 more than he contributes per year. The average ICE employee deports about 10 aliens/year, estimated minimum cost of about $8-$15 k/alien. My $2500 seems to be quite reasonable. The aliens should be happy in that they aren't going back to that hell hole of a country they came from. The canadians are always crapping on us for how we care for our illegal aliens so they should welcome the oppourtunity to show us how it should be done. Did I mention I get rich at about $200,000 per trip. Arden is retired and doesn't really want a cut, I just have to buy gas and beer. Think of the savings to the government, and I get rich. The franchise rights should be another excellent source of income. Promise not to tell anyone else as they might not want to buy a franchise. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
want to really get them coming and going, hire the illegals to BUILD that wall. And the Chinese wall seems to have stood a good test of time, kept the mongol hordes out for centuries | ||
| Madduck |
I think history shows that the Mongol hordes rolled right over the wall. | ||
| Brentmiller |
No sense keeping 'em out when Boosh has the wheels in motion for a North American Union (see the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America.) Bet my pants on it. Bush loves the way the EU works. There you have it. Brent | ||
| Cityxslicker |
It kept them out for centuries, not permanently, the mongol hordes are a thing indeed to be feared, hell they sacked Lower Russia several times just for fun | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
 Plant one of these every 1000 yards or so, problem solved. Oh yeah, lets put one on every sky scrapper in every major city. | ||
| Tommy_black_shark |
As long as the US has better pay and free medical care, education, etc. there will be an unstoppable incentive for people to illegally cross the border. There are several approaches to stopping the flow of illegals: 1) Make it so its not illegal. This would be popular with some. Would do nothing to reduce the strain on our systems. 2) Continue with more of what we have already been doing and failing at. More Border Patrol, even a wall. Won't work and will just go to prove the case of those who advocate option #1. 3) Catch and release further away. Like squirrels in your attic, just throwing them out only means they chew a new hole trying to get back in. Deporting them to Juarez is just a free trip home. With squirrels you have to relocate them at least 5 miles away. With illegals probably further. I'm thinking Lebanon, or possibly Zambia. Or we could just run a single strand of wire the length of the border. Stick a sign every 20 feet or so with a warning in a dozen or so languages. Back it up with a few billion AP mines. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Or we could just run a single strand of wire the length of the border. Stick a sign every 20 feet or so with a warning in a dozen or so languages. Back it up with a few billion AP mines.  | ||
| Ryker77 |
As long as the US has better pay and free medical care, education, etc. there will be an unstoppable incentive for people to illegally cross the border. Then stop those. Anybody that hires an Illegal should be fined harshly as the current law states. As the 1980's amnesty law stated. The medical system is not free. It is covered by you and I with higher taxes and higher medical services cost. Also why medical centers in the south near the border are closing at an alarming rate. No valid ID and you nothing more than a bandaid. No valid ID and you get NONE of the American medicare system. Education. No valid ID with proof of living address and you are not allowed in an American taxpayer school. In my area an American kid who lives in the County is not allowed to attened the better city schools. Becuase they don't pay city taxes. Illegals should not get better treatment than Americans. I love the KISS idea. Not the 700 page amnesty bill that they are trying to shove down us. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Wolf, have you ever heard one of those guns fire? I was on the USS Bataan and that thing is awesome. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I have heard one fire and I knew a Squid that got shot by one and lived. They had drone ops going on and the column of ships was in the process of turning around when the drone flew by. One ship was still headed south when the rest had started to head north. They opened fire and sprayed the ship he was on. The guy standing next to him died and he got hit in the back of the arm when he was trying to run inside the boat. His arm looked like he tried to kill himself with a fillet knife about 20 times. NASTY SCARS!! | ||
| Jimidan |
As soon as some of them J-Lo looking Mexican cuties from Mexico City (I know they exist, I sees them on Mexican TV) start coming over instead of the 5' tall "Indian" dudes, all this talk about a "wall" will simply vanish. We ain't too bright but we do appreciate good looking wool. | ||
| Tommy_black_shark |
As far as fining employers that hire illegals my plan is simple. Give every employer a time certain to verify status of his employee's. 6 Months, 1 year doesn't matter. After that date anyone employing an individual without proper documentation is subject to a $1,000 per day per employee fine. Offer bounties to citizens who "blow the whistle" on employers. Eliminate PC rules when looking for illegals. In other words, don't give equal emphasis to an IBM sales office as to a drywall crew. Eliminate all social services except IMMEDIATE life saving emergency medical. Withhold all federal funds from any state that allows a municipality to harbor illegals. Only problem, not gonna happen. Once they're here the Republicans want the cheap labor (I know its not cheap, but the overall costs are subsidized by the taxpayer) and the Democrats are hoping for another captive minority voting bloc. Speaking of "captive" voting blocs, anyone seen the crime stats (particularly for California) for illegals? Health care not free you say? Maybe not for you or I, but every hospital has signs posted in English and Spanish letting people know that if they can't pay they still get medical. My son got sick at Daytona Bike Week a couple years ago and in the emergency room they checked my insurance card at least 3 times. I think it may have been the first time they had ever seen one. This country has had it I'm afraid. | ||
| Trac95ker |
Maybe one day there will be an economy that provides a job market in Mexico. Thats the only way to keep people them from leaving. I think most other attempts create hostility. If Mexico had half of the companies China did we wouldn't be in this mess. How did China end up with the Lions share of the work? | ||
| Djkaplan |
"I think history shows that the Mongol hordes rolled right over the wall." And the Nazi's just went around the Maginot Line. The Walls of Jericho came tumbling down. The Berlin Wall fell. History has judged the Wall Builders harshly. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"When the topic of a wall or a fence is mentioned most who like/benifit from cheap illegal workers will come back with..." It would be fiscally feasible if you used illegal workers. How's that for irony? | ||
| Ryker77 |
What will help stop illegal drug flow, criminals, sick people, terrorists, etc etc other a secure border? Not just a secure border on the southern front but all borders. It's not a total solution but a vital first step. Every solution to a problem starts with the first step. We don't talk about "comprehinsive drug user reform" First step to slow down and/or stop illegal drug use is to secure the border. First step to slow down and/or stop contagious/sick/criminals/terrorist is a secure border. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Maybe one day there will be an economy that provides a job market in Mexico. Thats the only way to keep people them from leaving. I think most other attempts create hostility. If Mexico had half of the companies China did we wouldn't be in this mess. How did China end up with the Lions share of the work? Mexico does have a better economy that most other South American countries. Thus Mexico has a tough secure border and a tough immagration policy. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"What will help stop illegal drug flow, criminals, sick people, terrorists, etc etc other a secure border?" Certainly not a wall. You think a 12 foot wall is going to stop a terrorist or a drug smuggler? I'm not sure what you mean by sick people... maybe a wall would stop a guy that was sick... I couldn't climb a wall with the runs. You can attract a lot of flies with honey. Don't leave the honey out and shoo the flies away... take the honey away. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
He is talking about that DOUCHE BAG that has TB and was told to stay put in Europe. He got on a plane to Canada, exposed everyone and then drove across the border back home to Atlanta. He was on the watch list and still cruised on in. | ||
| Loud_and_low |
SEVERE penalties for Employing Illegals.And that includes beltway housekeepers. Problem would be solved in ONE yr. Along with some of the other proposals in the new bill, it would be a done deal.But the lawmakers don't want to fix it, they want to make more laws. |
