| Author | Message | ||
     Tx05xb12s |
Wanting to go camping on my Buell. I'm thinking about building a lightweight trailer to pull behind my bike and was wondering if anyone here has any trailer pulling experience? My initial thoughts revolve around a 3' wide by 4' long by 24" tall box; aluminum frame, steel axle/spindles/leaf springs and 8" wheels. It will probably be some semblance of a teardrop shape with a big door across the back of it, skinned in aluminum or stainless sheetmetal. The tongue length would be about 4' with a axle width of 3', making the entire trailer 8' long by 3' wide. I can fab the frame and have it skinned at a local machine shop. I would then take it to a paint shop and have it painted to match the bike, Buell emblems and all. I'm expecting total weight to come in under 150 lbs with a carrying capacity of around 200 lbs. I have read that I want to design it/pack it with only about a 10% tongue weight. There are lots of designs available to look at and copy, but I'm interested to know what type of hitch setup has been used on our bikes? I'm thinking of using my rear footpeg brackets to come up with a ball mount behind the rear tire. Any thoughts/experiences? Criticisms/comments/suggestions are welcome. I don't want to build something unsafe. | ||
| Cruisin |
I actually had this discussion with Odie last year, and have been unsuccessful with a good solution. I am undecided about trying it with the rear footpeg brackets. Everything I've seen says that the main bracket from the ball mount to the attachment point(s) on the bike should be level. That way the push/pull forces from the trailer are strictly lateral. A mount that runs back from the tips of the rear footpeg mounts would have to be angled, which in a panic stop might lift up the rear end. Odie and I were trying to figure out how to weld on a mounting point to the back of the rider footpeg mounts, but the brake lever assembly kind of ruins it. If you can figure out some form of attachment point, it's easy. Make a big U to go around the back tire, with two supports running up to the rear footpeg brackets. I would be a little nervous about carrying 200lbs in addition to the trailer weight on these bikes, they're so light that you may be SOL if you have to stop quickly. I definitely recommend against straight sides. My wife pulls a trailer with her BMW and although it's hard to tell in this picture, the sides are sloped like the front and back. This helps with wind gusts when you're at higher speeds. My wife usually cruises at 90+ (sometimes 100+) with this trailer and with the exception of stopping quickly doesn't really notice it's there. We've packed a tent, awning, bedding, chairs, grill, inflatable mattress, catalytic heater, food, even the 20lb propane tank. Pack it well balanced with very little tongue weight and you won't have a problem.  On this BMW it's a single side, and I'm really debating about trying that on my Buell. Weld a tab on the left rider footpeg bracket. Get some heavy piping (Probably 2"?) and pinch one end down. That can slide over the tab and run a bolt through them both. The back end you would curve into a J, with a support bracket running up to the tail frame (again, a tab and pinched tubing would make it easier to remove). Weld on some steel plates to make the mounting point for the ball and voila! Now it's low enough to be level and strong enough to not flex. The trick will be making sure it's out far enough to avoid the swingarm. If you want more info about the mounts or trailer, let me know. | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
Why not go through the axle? you could bolt something right through the middle, it is level, and low, so in an emergency it shouldn't lift the rear... Keep in mind I have never pulled a trailer w/ my bike and know nothing about them.. | ||
| M2statz |
I would look up Ebutch in the old school forum. He has several pictures of his bike with a trailer. | ||
| Tx05xb12s |
I thought about doing something with the hollow axle too, but I need a way to keep the ball level with the plane of the trailer and support the tongue weight on the bike. If I use the axle, I can't tie off to the subframe anywhere because it would put the swingarm in a bind. That's why I'm looking at the rear peg bracket mounting points on the subframe right now. I know this would be a strain on the brakes and clutch, so I'd of course keep it slow on these type of trips. I was thinking if the bike is about 450 lbs wet weight, and I'm about 170 with gear, the bike and I would weigh about 620 to 650 if I've got bags on the bike too. If I'm pulling a 150 to 200 lb trailer with a max load under 200 lbs, I'd be pulling a load equivalent to about 2/3 the weight of me and the bike. If it's set up properly, I'm thinking I could make it happen as long as I didn't get into a panic situation out on the road. When I pull with my truck, I've oftentimes pulled loads that weighed thousands of pounds more than the truck itself. The way I deal with that situation is to take it slow, allow a large following distance between me and obstacles/cars in front of me, and plan my stops/braking in advance as much as possible. I assume the concept would be the same on two wheels. You guys keep the comments coming. I don't really want to put myself in danger unnecessarily, but I don't want to ride a 800 lb boat to make this happen either. Any other thoughts on what I am getting into would be appreciated. I appreciate the information on the sloped sides too. I certainly don't want to get blown around because I'm pulling a sail. Maybe the teardrop design isn't the best way to go. I'll keep looking at trailer designs online and look for your comments. | ||
| Cruisin |
Yeah, I think the only way to make it happen is to do a single sided trailer hitch of big enough round stock to support it without flexing. The footpeg brackets are the way to go and if you succeed, I may ask you to fab one up for me! Odie and I were on this track, but couldn't figure out how to do it two sided. One side SHOULD work (it works great on the BMW). I would recommend building a basic box frame and seeing if you can fab up a fiberglass shell. It's light and very sturdy (no problems so far). I believe it might be lighter. The top of ours has a hinged door that's about half of the top, and a recessed track around the seal to channel water to the back and down, keeping it water tight. My friend pulls a bigger one. Has canvas popups over the front and back doors, ends up being a coffin style sleeper. Not my idea of fun, but it's big and goes great. Here's a couple pics of his:   | ||
| Tx05xb12s |
How come you guys are interested in the one sided mount so much? Wouldn't it be sturdier to just bend a piece of round bar around the back of the tire and weld brackets on each end to mate up to the four bolt holes in the subframe and then weld a plate on the back behind the tire for a 1 7/8 ball? The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of using the subframe footpeg mounting points to bolt a tow ball bracket onto. You guys are a big help! I'll keep thinking and will post the results. I'll have to build the trailer first, so I'll know what the height of the ball bracket will be. This may take some time as I'm pretty overloaded with school and work right now. I'm in the concept phase at the present. | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
First thought I had was, won't a trailer exacerbate the twitchy steering? I have never pulled a trailer with a bike, but I have with vehicles. The short wheel base vehicles liked to wander more. Maybe a steering stabilizer would help? As for mounting a hitch point I would only use the rear swing arm. I would come through the axle then mount down the side of the rear swing arm (making and upside down capital A) If you mount anything to the passenger peg area, you will cause a lot of stress on the suspension components. Every-time you accelerated, or braked it would pitch the bike around in undesired ways. Last thing. What kind of stress would this put on the belt? The kind of weight you are talking about might be more than the belt can handle. | ||
| Nevrenuf |
we have a motorcycle trailer too,and like most of the hitches out there, you mount the brackets to the frame, if you mount it to the wheel your gonna have alot more bouncing around that definitely would not be good for the wheel. check into how the hitches are set up for the softails and proceed from their. our hitch that we have now is for an ultraclassic and gets supported between the the bag supports and the fender. and check back in the archives and look for the guy who has the trailer with his s3t i think it is. | ||
| Cruisin |
Tx - that was my first thought, take some round bar and bend it into a tall U to go around the tire. The problem was figuring how to attach it to the footpeg mounts. The rear brake lever goes under then up the back of the mounts, so you can't mount directly to it. To go outside of that would probably interfere with your heel, but if you can flatten it far enough back so it didn't, you might be onto something. If you're building the trailer from scratch, you might want to try to figure out the height first. The trailer we have has a lift in the tongue to meet the height we want. That way the trailer can sit lower. You definitely don't want to go through the axle. If done right on the frame the forces during accel/decel are lateral, and aren't much worse than having an extra passenger with luggage, except that it really doesn't work your suspension that much (assuming the trailer is properly packed with 10% or less tongue weight). Nevr - I'm pretty sure the belt can handle it. If the trailer is properly balanced, there's not much power needed to keep it rolling. The only real stress on the bike will be during acceleration or if ascending altitude. Once you get used to the excess force, braking is easy using the transmission, you just shift a little earlier and give your engine a little more time to slow you down. I was very surprised when I rode the BMW with the trailer for the first time. Braking took a little longer, as did accelerating, but other than that there was almost no noticible effect on the bike. The Buells might be a little more sensitive since they're lighter, but I imagine it's still doable. Tx - if you can come up with a dual mount solution, that's obviously going to be best. It spreads the forces out better so there will be less chance of problems. That right side is what's going to be tricky. I would have tinkered myself but for lack of the proper tools (and skills) I'm SOL. | ||
| Tx05xb12s |
I was talking about the REAR footpeg mounting points on the subframe of my S Model XB. This shouldn't have anything to do with the rear maser cylinder. I took the rear footpegs off a long time ago, so those mounting points are just begging for a trailer hitch bracket. I'm thinking about a "U" shaped piece of round bar with some flat bar welded like caps on the ends of the round bar. These would each have two bolt holes that would mate up to the rear footpeg bracket mounting points on the subframe. I figure that's the spot the bike was intended to receive passenger weight, so I can simulate passenger weight with trailer weight with the hitch. This should be the least unsettling to the bike. | ||
| Cruisin |
Sorry Tx, I misunderstood. I hear ya now. It's a good theory, and you're right, it is meant to take weight there, but I'd still be nervous about the direction of the force when stopping. It may unload the rear tire enough to cause problems. Just my $.02 though. | ||
| Tx05xb12s |
I dunno Chris. since 80% of our braking power is on the front end and the rear naturally unloads anyway, I don't think this is going to be a big problem. I'll be taking it easy when pulling a trailer anyway. You just have to expect slower acceleration and braking because of the extra weight. I'll take a piece of 2" aluminum pipe I found in the garage over to a buddy of mine's muffler shop and have him bend me something up. I'm pretty sure with a bracket welded on each side and another one behind the wheel for the trailer ball, I'll be able to bolt it right to the subframe. I can even paint it to match the bike frame since I've got a rattle can of the stuff already on hand! I've also been thinking about the trailer design. I found a steel axle with dropped spindles, leaf springs, and 12" wheels/tires at Tractor Supply today I think I can cut down for my 36" wheelbase. It's surprisingly lightweight and could be what I'm looking for. The design of the box itself has morphed into an aluminum tube-frame/fiber glass design with a wedge shaped front and the sides angled inward both up and down from the midpoint of each side to cut down on crosswind issues. I'm still thinking about ride-height for the trailer too. The bike is a Scg model, so I'll want the trailer low to keep the center of gravity down, but probably a little higher than the bike so I won't have a problem with speedbumps. I can go around most obstacles on the bike, but won't want to be worrying about what the trailer's doing behind me. | ||
| Sweatmark |
Tx - like your idea of using the mounting points for the passenger peg supports... Ever seen one of these? http://www.uni-go.com/ http://www.dauntlessmotors.com/Trailers/unigo.htm Been thinking about a DIY version, using a big Igloo cooler as the "pod". Talk about beer wagon potential! A few other options: http://www.bagageres-genco.com/index.php?p=produits http://www.monogo.com/ http://www.alsmotorcycleaccessories.com/uni_mate_one_wheel_trailer.html (Message edited by sweatmark on April 20, 2007) | ||
| Tx05xb12s |
Those Uni-Go trailers are pretty cool. I like the idea of them, but not big enough for my application. I'm wanting to do some camping and need enough room to bring along enough equipment and supplies for extended trips. If I were to buy one, it would probably be something like this... http://www.motorcycletrailer.com/ I was looking at the "Stow and Go" model because it's reasonably priced and has a 24 cubic foot capacity. It would probably tow like a boat, but it would get the job done on ironbutt camping trips. Since I'm so short on time with school and work, I may just build the hitch and buy a trailer so I can actually go somewhere when I do get time off instead of building trailers. Still mulling it over. Hmmm...take a vacation after spring semester with a manufactured trailer for the price of $695 or save a few hundred, wind up with an untested design, and have to wait months to get enough time to try it out. I love to make things, but I really need to get away. I'll have to think about that one and discuss it some more with my chief fabricating assistant (dad). | ||
| Diablobrian |
Wouldn't a pintle type hitch be better with the lean angles that the bike will see being a single track vehicle versus the twin track trailer? Just a thought. | ||
| Tx05xb12s |
I'm concerned about the ball-type hitch too. I was wondering how counterbalancing into u-turns would work with a ball-hitch. Will it give me enough play to turn around inside a city block? Since I obviously won't be backing up, I think not being about to turn around easily would be a huge hindrance. I was also concerned about getting into a curve and needing more lean angle in an emergency and getting pushed off the road by the trailer because it wouldn't let me lean any further. I googled pintle-type hitches and agree they would be a much better for this application. They remind me of what we used to use on our HumVees in the military. How do they work? Pintle Hook receiver on the motorcycle with a Lunette eye on the trailer in place of the ball hitch? I haven't run across how you mount the Lunette eye on the trailer. Any thoughts? | ||
| Nevrenuf |
they make swivels for the trailers that they recomend on anything outside of a large cruiser where your lean angle wouldn't be that much.  this right here could solve both your problems.breaking and lean angle. i used to try and sale timeout trailers. http://timeouttrailers.org/accessories.aspx | ||
| Tramp |
the short answer: NO. Why use a very specifically engineered, trellis-based sporting machine for pulling a trailer? The very concept of using motorcycles to pull trailers is one which I find grotesque and Macbikerish. If you need to bring that much stuff, buy a car. | ||
| Tx05xb12s |
Neil: I like that swivel hitch. I agree it would solve a lot of the possible lean angle problems. I assume it would attach to a ball, right? I couldn't find much info about it. As for the trailer brakes, I've used them pulling with my truck before and really did like the extra stopping power. I'm thinking the idea would be to set them where they only provide a little bit of braking power similar to the way the bike is set up now. What I mean by that is the front brakes pretty much do the work, and the rear just seems to give the chassis a little stability during heavy braking. They would probably make it safer to pull a little more weight. I really appreciate the ideas guys. Thanks for helping me put this all together in my head so I don't rig up something unsafe. (Message edited by Tx05xb12s on April 21, 2007) | ||
| Tramp |
any trailer hooked up to a sport motorcycle is unsafe especially a sport motorcycle with a non-cradle frame...what this will do regarding your rear-suspenison characteristics, alone, is frightful I advise against this- also- check with Buell regarding warranty for such a stunt. It's a sport motorcycle. (Message edited by tramp on April 21, 2007) | ||
| Tx05xb12s |
Thanks for the concern Tramp. I'll be sure and consider what I'm talking about doing carefully before I spend a bunch of money on the project. As for the warranty, that'll be over in September. | ||
| Microchop |
I too am aware that Buell frowns on this kind of thing, but if I were to build one for myself (and you have me thinking about it) I would copy this very popular bicycle design, http://www.bobtrailers.com/trailers/trailer.php?pr oduct_id=11 and go through the rear axle...and I would give it it's own "mass operated" brakes, so that when I slowed down, the forward pushing force would activate the brakes. Hmmm...I am liking this idea for long trips, but not the canyons. | ||
| Microchop |
...Come to think of it, how bitchin' would that look if the rear half was an XB swingarm, wheel, tire and brake? The weather cover could start with a tank cover to match the bike. the possibilities in teerms of mimicking the tow vehicles lines and style are endless. | ||
| Tramp |
Given the isolastic rear suspension of the Buell, the wheel is the last thing you want to attach extra load to. let's use our heads, kids..... | ||
| Tx05xb12s |
Hey Tramp, what do you do for a living? You seem pretty knowledgeable about fabricating in general based on what you've been posting over the past year I've been here. I realize that you're erring on the side of caution out of an interest in my safety and those around me on the road while I'm pulling the proposed contraption. I appreciate it. With that being said, I do realize nobody pulls trailers with sportbikes. However, I own one and want to go camping on it, so I need to find the safest way to do it. I'm a grad student and work for the state government. I won't graduate for another year and can't get out of my contract with the agency until the year after that, so I'm stuck in a relatively limited income scenario for the next two years. So I've gotta make due with what I've got as long as I can come up with a feasible way to do it. Besides, I ride a Buell because they're different in every way from other bikes. I want to pull a trailer with it for largely the same reason, besides the fact that I just want a cheap way to get away from the computer and cellphone for a little while on the weekends and also enjoy my favorite pastime simultaneously. After much stimulating discussion both here and with friends and my father (who is also dubious about the idea but willing to participate in the design and fabrication out of concern for my safety too), I've come up with the following scenario for what I think will do well enough to get me safely down the superslab to my camping destinations (granted this will not in any way be a high-speed or corner carving setup): 1. I'm going to put my rear footpeg brackets back on the bike. 2. I will remove the rear footpegs. 3. I will bend a piece of pipe in a u-shape and weld brackets on the ends that will bolt right onto the footpeg brackets where the footpegs used to be. 4. The brackets will be welded to the pipe in such a manner as to allow the hitch to be at such height as to cause the trailer tongue to be parallel with the ground so it will not have too much tongue weight (sorry no specific measurements yet). 5. I will weld a plate suitable for mounting a 1 7/8 ball and safety chain slots on the back of the pipe behind the tire. 6. I will purchase a Stow-N-Go trailer and install a swivel hitch coupler. The GVWR of the bike is 880 lbs, and the max weight allowed on the tires is the same. The bike, riding gear, and myself weight about 600 lbs. The trailer weights 170 lbs with a 20 lb hitch weight. This will give me a carrying capacity of 110 lbs. The rear footpeg brackets (and subframe) are intended to take much more weight than 20 lbs. The trailer tongue weight and myself would be around 170 to 180 lbs assuming the trailer is packed properly. The bike is rated to handle two riders weighing a maximum of 430 lbs (880 GVWR - 450 lbs wet weight). Granted, this will diminish the canyon-carving abilities of the bike, but it should be road worthy enough to cruise along with the flow of traffic and perform well enough to operate like any other vehicle pulling a trailer. The purpose of these trips will be to go camping; not to see if I can break traction while dragging knees around curves. Make sense? Unusual? yes. Feasible? yes. You guys are welcome to play devil's advocate with my theories on this. This is why I posted it here. There's a lot of knowledge and experience on this board and I'm truly interested in benefiting from it. Be nice though. I'm not really into arguments. Constructive criticism in the name of problem solving is what I'm looking for. | ||
| Doerman |
Tramp says: the short answer: NO. Why use a very specifically engineered, trellis-based sporting machine for pulling a trailer? The very concept of using motorcycles to pull trailers is one which I find grotesque and Macbikerish. If you need to bring that much stuff, buy a car. I agree with Tramp. A sportbike does not have the geometry or heft to safely pull a trailer. I've been in the same pickle myself. Going somewhere, but not enough space for the gear. I've sent stuff ahead with UPS. That works well if you are going to one destination. Does not work well for multiple stops. Asbjorn | ||
| Mikexlr650 |
have to agree with tramp about the rear axle being a no-no due the "uniplaner" mounting system. remember the rear axle is tied to the motor (yes the top of the spring is to the frame) which has a very specific amount of movement allowed (tuned flex is what other company's call it). the sub frame was designed to be strong enough to deal with force applied from specific angles (like our footpegs), the trailer will provide loads that may exceed these parameters?? seems like one of those things where everything will be fine until a "panic" event. cool idea though, i'm curious as to how it will actually work. | ||
| Tramp |
actually, everything won't even be fine prior to a panic event, as the rear shock will have no rebound if the load is pulling back on the rear wheel. Thx1138 has pretty much stated that he's going to go ahead and make a trailer that attaches to the 'frame', so it's moot. i've camped with my buell more than i care to remember, and i've never needed a trailer. I mean- do you need a trailer when you camp out in the woods, hiking? That's whay they invented backpacks. tent, bag, foulweather gear, etc., all fit fine in a decent backpack, and/or it can all be strapped to the machine. For the life of me, i cannot imagine what a person (aside from Diana Ross)needs, when "camping", that won't fit in a pack or can't be lashed to the machine. wait- that's right- my bad: you did post that you work for the "state government"....must be prok and $700- can openers....  (I'm here all week, ladies and germs- try the veal, tip your waitress....) ...er....Tx25xbX900r65/6486xt0o6Xper: I hope you realize I'm just busting chops, no ill will meant.... are you bringing a hairdryer and a microwave, or just rough it with the toaster oven? (Message edited by tramp on April 21, 2007) | ||
| Tx05xb12s |
Well, I'm basing my assumptions on the consideration that pulling a trailer with ANY vehicle is going to make it less responsive in a panic situation. Even a semi, which is built specifically to pull trailers, has a reduced ability to respond to an emergency when pulling a load. This is just innate to the trailer pulling experience. My goal is to make the setup for my motorcycle reasonably safe in accordance with a similar ratio of reduced function comparable to my truck pulling a trailer. There is a reduction of driveability there that I accept. If I can get the bike down to the same level, that will have to be good enough if I want to do this. You guys that keep talking about buying cars, I hear you and understand. However, I really don't consider this very relevant to how best to facilitate pulling a trailer with the bike. If I wanted to ride a cage, I'd just use the car or truck I already own. I've already found over 50 motorcycle trailer manufacturers just in the short time since I've had this idea, so I know this isn't hugely out of the ordinary. I've seen them on the road as well. I do appreciate your thoughts, but I'm more focused on the safest way to pull a trailer with my bike, and not necessarily the pros and cons of using my truck vs my bike. You're right. It would be safer to drive one of the cages period, and pull the trailer I already own with my truck for that matter. That's not the discussion I'm trying to facilitate here guys. Anyway, I don't think the axle is an option I would be interested in considering either. And you're right Mike, the forces (especially when braking) would be forward on the footpeg brackets instead of down like they were intended, but I can use stronger bolts than the stock set to help compensate and increase my following distance and speed while trailering my gear to the campsite. Once there, I'd have the option to pull the pins out of the footpeg/trailer hitch setup and chain the trailer to a tree. Then I'm off for the twisties if I want. I think it's the best of both worlds considering what I have available to ride right now. I'm naturally adventurous and I know a lot of Buell owners in general are too. I think this will be a fun experiment. It's touching that some of you guys seem so concerned about this project, but I feel pretty comfortable trying it out as long as I can come up with a safe, mechanically sound way to do it. I think my main concern right now is to rule out mechanical failures at this point. The reduced rideability of the bike when pulling a trailer is a given. Considering that I'm going camping and not canyon carving, this is acceptable to me during the time the trailer is hitched to the bike. I'm thinking the footpeg bracket idea is the best I've heard so far. Anyone got a better idea? Thanks for the interest in this string by the way. |
