| Author | Message | ||
     Bigdaddy |
"the problem here is the entitlement attitude" Hold the calls we've got ourselves a winner -- Khollister has identified 95%, it may be higher, of the problem in one sentence! You should run for office  | ||
| Outrider |
there's an assembly plant in brazil - still running, bikes get put back together there and sold for less tariff than if they would come into the country whole. Nothing new there. For the longest time US Corporations maintained assembly plants in Canada and many other countries to avoid the tariffs and remain competitive in those countries. The side benefit was increased market acceptance as we were helping their economies. Is sort of like the Japanese Manufacturer's do here. Any bets on how long it will be before the Chinese start assembly plants here. With China's access to cheap labor, I don't really see that happening until our workers are beaten into economic submission. Oh well, the upside is we can live in Company Housing complete with Curfews, Gates and Security Guards. Shop in the Company Store and get passes to go into town on Saturday Night. Gosh, even our Military lives better than that. Remind anyone of the old Tennessee Ernie Ford song? "Another day older and deeper in debt...St. Peter don't you call cause I can't go...I owe my soul to the company store" etc., ad nauseum. Took America a long time to grow out of that situation but we just could fall back into it if we lower our standards to those of the Chinese government. If you don't like it, you can always quit and go back to the farm in China. Problem is in the US, our major farms are owned and operated by the German's and Japanese, plus a few other foreigners. Ergo, the family owned 40 acre farms are pretty much history. As are a lot of businesses that could have provided meaningful employment. None of this is directed to the Asian Peoples or any other ethnic types. It is directed at the various governments and the business ethics of the privileged few that control the corporations. I should think that when all is said and done the World is supposed to be a better place. Well, at least that was the mantra of the Hippie Daze. However, just knowing the history of man, I really don't think that is a realistic perspective. | ||
| Outrider |
On a humorous note...Does anybody remember America's Steel Industry? You know, that all important industry that helped America and its allies survive WWI and WWII. If you do, then you should also remember the abundance of small shops across America that stopped manufacturing their products and manufactured anything they could to support the war effort. If it weren't for our industrial might, we would all be speaking German and a good percentage of us would have been exterminated. | ||
| Anonymous |
1.) It gives a current rate for assemblers and newly hired assemblers. I am assuming these are "apple to apple" (both wage rate for new assemblers and not what a CURRENT assembler is making vs. what a new guy/gal walking in would make. Tough to fathom a 25% pay cut. Pay cut, as I red it, is only for NEW employees. Though it'd certainly create a weird dynamic if 2 people did the same job - one for $27/hour, and one for $18 an hour....and its to invest in NEW expansion of production facilities in WI - to ADD jobs. Not to take anything away from current positions. 2) Not at all unusual to have the employee pay some part of their health insurance. It *appears* that HD is picking up the full tab now. I pay a portion of mine as well as a variety of deductibles. I look at health insurance as catastrophic insurance; i.e. I could care less about the $40 prescriptionription, I want protected from the $40,000 unexpected trip the hospital. For Salaried folks, there is currently no contribution to health care premium. That is changing. 3) The discontinuation of the ability to put unlimited amounts in a retirement plan and get a company match is likely due. How cool would it be if you could get an employer match for contributions and there was no limit on contributions. Again, for Salaried, company match capped out at 6%, at 50 cents match to the dollar, so hardly unlimited matching!} | ||
| Buellgirlie |
steveasauras - not the exact same article, but similar. here's a relevant snip from the article you posted about healthcare benefits that GM has to pay out. this doesnt even talk about pension costs...! no wonder american car companies havent been able to invest in r&d  "For example, the price tag of every vehicle GM builds in the United States includes about $1,525 just for the medical care of the nearly 1.1 million Americans the automaker insures. Toyota's health care tab for each vehicle it builds in Japan is $97; it's $400 to $425 in the United States. DaimlerChrysler's health care cost amounts to $1,400 per vehicle; Ford, $1,100." eeeeek! D | ||
| Court |
>>>there's an assembly plant in brazil - still running, bikes get put back together there and sold for less tariff than if they would come into the country whole. Take comfort in knowing that the door swings BOTH ways. Those t-shirts you see with "USA" are sent here in pieces an "Assembled in the USA", presumably for the same reasons. Benefits are where it's at. The more I can accrue without passing the tax man, the better. | ||
| Court |
I was mistaken. I MIS-read that as being able to make "unlimited" additional contributions and received the company match. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Dora, I'm still looking -- it'd be a great time to have a LexisNexis account Quoting from memory the total add-on cost per unit was $3.5K - $4K. So, do the math. Most Americans finance their automobiles and make monthly payments. Monthly payments are roughly *$23.00 on every thousand dollars you finance, so the financing public (which is me) is paying about $92.00 per month ($92.00 per freaking car) for retired Big Three workers and it sucks. G2 *based on 9% APR,,YMMV, credit checks, on-time payment, blah, blah, blah, etc. (Message edited by bigdaddy on October 17, 2006) | ||
| Madduck |
As a radical and trying to help nieces and nephews thru college, I want to open up some of these professors to "global competition", why should their salaries be protected when we can hire the equivalent or better from eastern europe at a third the pay. We need to take radical action to bring the cost of higher education down and no one is even talking about this sort of thing to university professors. Let them join in the "fun" too. | ||
| Bomber |
mad -- it ain't the teaching staff at most schools that impacts the rates so much, as it is other things -- for instance, a high school teacher in my local district make a great deal more (per year of experience) than a tenured professor at most colleges find a school with minimal extra-cirricular stuff, and you'll find a bargain | ||
| Bigdaddy |
"bring the cost of higher education down,,,,,," Absofreakinglutely! Until the end of last semester I had 3 full-time college students at the same time -- draining is an understatement. Quality of education is questionable at best and why all the politics hidden behind the podium posing as mind expanding education? The kids today can spend an entire semester in a class and never see the 'professor,' "see the TA." A big old stinky load of crap,,,,, I gotta quit reading this thread, but you're spot on with you analysis. The want to preach global economy, we're all equal, give peace a chance, save the freaking whales, whatever,,,let them compete for their jobs like the rest of us. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Brucelee. Don't read the thread. Problem solved. Here's a new approach. Let's put a stop to the over inflated, ridiculous price of health care in this Country. Not shove it up everyone's @ss. | ||
| Rhun |
Who is it Ford that offered a early buy out to include health care, sort of, so they could cut cost today by getting rid of older employees? Five years from now they will be complaining of the cost. Their top executives will make 2+ times more money and will make even more mismanagement decisions and the foreign companies will still have a better idea of what American consumers want in a car. AND the American public will blame the workers and their zest to want the 'company' to give them what they promised. Which was probably originally received because the workers gave up something. Ks colleges raised tuition dramatically a couple years back because they thought the rate was too low compared with other states. Not because they needed it. Although they get much State and Federal aid the Board of Regents don't seem to be under any government oversight. | ||
| Reepicheep |
BigDaddy... I do
And that's only half way through the cite list, and from a limited number of sources. Quite the valuable service. Y'all rush out and get your companies to subscribe, my kids gotta eat also! | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Bill, I do recall you mentioning it in the past and I did think of you, but I wasn't comfortable with just blasting out a request like that. Thanks! G2 | ||
| Teeps |
Rocketsprink Posted on Tuesday <snip> I'm in the Chicago Sprinklerfitters local Union 281. Pardon my ignorance, but what is a sprinkler fitter? | ||
| Rocketsprink |
http://www.sprinklerfitterchicago.org/about_us.asp | ||
| Kdan |
Sprinklers are prolly more important in Chicago, huh? Not like Atlanta where a good all encompassing fire is viewed more as Urban Renewal forced upon them by the great Northern Aggressor. | ||
| Teeps |
Rocketsprink, So does that mean, if I own a building and the Fire Suppression Sprinkler system, needs work, I have no choice, and must to pay a Union worker to do the work? What happens if I don't use Union help? | ||
| Bomber |
In Chicago, failure to use Union Workers will get your facility shut down. This is likely true in many areas of the country, not just Chicago. When working a trade show at McCormick place, we needed an extension cord plugged into the wall socket. Had to pay a union electrician to do so. Chicago electrical code is far more stringent than any other in the country. the effects of 1871 (Chicago {and Peshtigo} Fire) is still felt today My favorite Chicago Union story goes like this -- Chicago was one of the first major cities to mandate the use of lead free gasoline, after an investigation sparked by finding highly elevated levels of lead in several school yards. All well and good. Now, by law in this fair city, the water supply pipes in your house mut be connected to the water mains using a pipe made of, wait for it . . . . . . lead Everyone looks out for themselves, but when someone else does it, it's a terrible shame I love irony ;-} | ||
| Court |
>>>In Chicago, failure to use Union Workers will get your facility shut down. This is likely true in many areas of the country, not just Chicago. And Chicago is "child's play" compared to New York City. Two of the critical elements in organizing are population density and the ability to isolate a geographic area. New York City, accessed only by tunnels and bridges) is the best example in the world of a "perfect" place. See today's New York Post And to think, in my foolisher days I actually drove a truck load of 8 motorcycles into Manhattan, parked it in Herald Square and spent 5 hours placing and arranging motorcycles in Macy's windows. I am glad:
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| Court |
And for the brighter side of today's news. Ya gotta love a job where the "AVERAGE" pay is $289,664 a year. | ||
| Teeps |
Bomber Posted on Wednesday In Chicago, failure to use Union Workers will get your facility shut down. So what we have is legal(?) organized coercion... Good for a few, costly for the many. | ||
| Brucelee |
Let's put a stop to the over inflated, ridiculous price of health care in this Country How much should "health care cost?" Who decides? What is a person "entitled to" in regards to healthcare? Who pays? Anyone, anyone? | ||
| Buellgirlie |
And for the brighter side of today's news. Ya gotta love a job where the "AVERAGE" pay is $289,664 a year. ya, but they work like maniacs in one of the world's most expensive cities....money's good, but when you have no energy to even spend it, it's not a great trade-off. i have many friends toiling away as in investment banking, equity research, wealth management, etc. on wall street - but i wouldn't take their lifestyle and work commitments for $300K! my friend worked til 4am, went home showered, picked up her luggage, and got on a plane to close a deal. she works 6-7 days a week, 10-14 hours a day, all the time. yuk D | ||
| Rhun |
Ironic isn't it? We bash Harley dealers for hiring bozos off the street to work on our Buells. These oafs have never been to 'Buell class' or anything, imagine that! But yet we want our technical stuff like meaningless fire equipment installation and maintenance that at worse would only kill us or cost us everything we own, to be performed by untrained unqualified workers. This, as apposed to workers who have been adequately train and apprenticed i.e. union worker. yah yah there are bad union workers and there are good bozos. That's right America (and Teeps) we should stand up for our rights to hire any idiot we want. I know I feel better when I hear the mechanic repeat 'righty tighty lefty losey'. | ||
| Court |
>>>>but i wouldn't take their lifestyle and work commitments for $300K! I absolutely agree. When the SCU was in school at St. John's she worked 2 different backroom trading operations. She'd finish class, rush to Wall Street, work most the night, sleep under a desk some nights, get up and head back to school. She was a full partner at Grant Thornton at 23 then on to BDO Seidman. She loved the "thrill of the chase" at a time when women were pretty well locked out of the Wall Street "Boys Club" and the "I'll prove I can breaek in" element then She's one of the few folks I know who had the smarts to walk away. She made the leap to Hedge Funds (see Soros, Bessent and Druckenmiller) and spends MUCH less time in the office, more time in speaking engagements for the S.E.C. and gardening. Frankly, NYC is a town, if you let it, that will tear you apart. You are also right about costs. Her Secy may make $190,00 a year but she also had to buy a $700,000 "starter home" after she escaped her $5,000/mo 1 bedroom apt. It's all relative. | ||
| Court |
By the way. . . I'd take Harley-Davidson's benefit package, living in Milwaukee (one of America's well kept cultural secrets) over "just" fat pay any day. Future daughter in law, an Energy Trader, played the same benefits card when she scored a gig with the City of Pasadena. A bit less than the securities industry but bennies galore. | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
Geez....assembly line workers making $27...... I must be a fool, 4 year engineering degree and these guys are making pretty close to what I make. With the free health care and stuff they probably do make more. But again I traded some $$ for job security. I know the ford plant in Maumee is closing and the news was saying those guys are making $65. Which IMHO is way out of line. You should hear those guys crying..... | ||
| Tom_k |
I don't feel sorry for those guys. I am WAY under $27/hr with an Associates degree and 15 years experience as a tooling/fixture/machine designer, but my pay scale is one of the harsh realities of living in rural southern Michigan. I got offered my dream job to be a Junior Engineer at Cobra Motorcycles when they moved up here, but I would have lost even more money to make the move. If H-D brought a plant to my area and offered me $18/hr to work on the line I'd probably take it. Less stress and responsibilty for almost the same pay. I've heard those guys at Ford Maumee complaining. THEY priced themselves out of their jobs. |
