| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
"as in extraordinarily poor when compared to manufacturers producing several thousands of units more than Buell............ " Please post the data you used as your source. | ||
| Rocketman |
Shame on me for what? Seeking the truth Blake? Every day I read on the BadWeB about Buells merits, and failings. I understand this and maybe a handful of forums would be the obvious place for Buell owners to set out their stall of Buell problems so maybe it does look worse here than elsewhere. But the truth is no matter what generation of Buell one buys there are far too many units that develop inherent failings. To calculate reliability on dollars paid out for warranty work done over units sold is a woefully inaccurate way of comparing the reliability of Buell against any other marque unless the 'any other marques' have shifted damn near the same amount of units as Buell year in year out give or take. Suggesting Buells reliability on such calculation is nothing short of shameful. Frankly the Buell tube frame platform and the XB platform are both let down by poor quality components in certain areas, and that is a fact. I'd wager that if we polled every Buell owner past and present, the percentage of owners that never experienced a single problem, no mater how big or small, would be a very small percentage of total units sold. The same I bet would not be true of say Suzuki XV650 owners or Honda CBR600 owners or even KTM's single cylinder range owners. Tell me I'm lying. Tell me I should be ashamed of myself. The facts are known but those here who love blowing their trumpets would never dare publish them. That would be akin to industrial suicide wouldn't it. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Please post the data you used as your source. I absolutely damn dare you to publish yours. Read above. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
And thinking about it, if your data is so good, and we are talking here "some of the firms who have sent folks to tour Buell to figure out how it's possible to get this level of quality with HUMANS (egads...I am one!) building the bikes", then lets see what got those folks to Buells door, and exactly who those folks are. I mean if it's that good this mysterious data you have annony, why not use it as the ultimate sales tool for the product rather than supposedly bragging about Buells production merits to mysterious folks. For all I know these mysterious folks could be in zimmer frame manufacture or make chocolate biscuits. Anything but motorcycle production perhaps. Well the answer is simple. It's marketing bullshit. Hype of the highest order, preaching to the preached. Rocket | ||
| Steveford |
My problem children: 2003 XBR, sold with around 6000 miles on it, wheel bearings replaced under recall, other than that, no problems. 2006 XB12X, 8800 miles: pulsating front brake rotor replaced under warranty, broken saddlebag latched replaced for free (my fault for forcing it), sidestand replaced under recall, other than that, nothing. (Message edited by SteveFord on October 01, 2006) | ||
| Black_sunshine |
Regardless of the fact...whether it be reliable in some eyes are non-reliable in others... this fact rings true: The BADWEB is a "Buell Motorcycle Enthusiast Forum" NOT a bitchy, ballbaby, wahahah..I hate my bike Buell sucks forum. What part of Enthusiast don't you get. Sure...I have has some problems with my bike but I don't cry about. I find the source and fix it...simple as that. No one wants to read your sob story....although it is pretty comical at times, I'll have to admit. If your not Enthusiastic go somewhere else...better yet start your own forum.....you can call SADWEB  | ||
| Blake |
No Sean, you aren't seeking truth. You are bashing Buell and making up bullshit to support your desire to bash Buell. If you aren't a Buell enthusiast any more, then you shouldn't be posting here. How would you like me to come to your house and take of on a tear about how miserable Saab's are or on Ducatis miserable record of quality and repeated near insolvency? The bottom like is that you are being horribly disrespectful not only to this forum but to me as well. | ||
| Cochise |
I really like the Uly but as the saying goes............. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. ..Fool Chuck Norris once, and he'll MESS you up | ||
| Court |
>>>do they also keep track of the extended warranty work? No. | ||
| Henrik |
Wrt. units made/sold vs. warranty $$ spent. There are repeatable and accepted ways of running those numbers through a few stats formulas thereby making the high volume and the low volume manufactured comparable within a certain range of accuracy. While I don't know any numbers for any MC company, I find it hard to believe that the companies that gather the info and make the comparison wouldn't be doing proper statistics on those numbers. Just a thought. Henrik | ||
| Thepup |
quote: "I believe if you could talk to a representative of the insurance company that does the extended warranty,you would find that there are alot more problems with XB's than ppl on here let on" Court says "That's a VERY inaccurate statement." >>>do they also keep track of the extended warranty work? Court says "No." Well how is my statement inaccurate?Have you spoken to a representative of the extended warranty company? | ||
| Court |
>>>Have you spoken to a representative of the extended warranty company? Extensively. I was paid to do so. They are very closed mouth and would not even release what they do and do not cover. "Extended Warranty" sales are a bit of a sore point with me. I've had to come to the rescue of too many Buell owners who thought they were covered for certain things. Believe it or not, folks actually buy these things (and at tremendous mark-ups) without a detailed schedule of what is and is not covered. The folks who provide these programs, IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, are schisters and snake oil salesmen. They are also, or were, among the highest mark-up item dealers sold. Thanks for asking. Who else here has been PAID a salary with part of their job description including dealing with the folks who sell and administer extended motorcycle warranties? If that's the new "standard", I'm eager to see how many of is meet it. Also did a lot of work with Buell rentals....but, we'll get to that later. This has spiraled into an argument, enjoy yourselves. | ||
| Court |
Pup, it occurs to me, so that we know what we're dealing with here, that I need to ask you the same question. >>>Have you spoken to a representative of the extended warranty company? If so, the number of times: ___________ (insert a number from 0-100) I'll be curious, if you have spoken to them, how freely they opened up and offered information. If you have not spoken to them, please give them a call on Monday and ask them to provide you with their actuarial data on Buells. If they are reluctant or won't provide it, try this one (yes, it's from experience) ask them to fax you a list of precisely what they do and do not cover. Tell them you are confused by terms like "primary power system", "drive line" and want to be clear what is covered before you buy the warranty. My experience, granted, is 8 years dated. I'm eager to see if the foul taste I have and the low regard in which I hold these continues to be based in fact. Court | ||
| Stevasaurus |
Regardless of the fact...whether it be reliable in some eyes are non-reliable in others... this fact rings true: The BADWEB is a "Buell Motorcycle Enthusiast Forum" NOT a bitchy, ballbaby, wahahah..I hate my bike Buell sucks forum. What part of Enthusiast don't you get. Sure...I have has some problems with my bike but I don't cry about. I find the source and fix it...simple as that. No one wants to read your sob story....although it is pretty comical at times, I'll have to admit. If your not Enthusiastic go somewhere else...better yet start your own forum.....you can call SADWEB I COMPLETELY disagree. This is the place I come to in order to soak up every bit of Buell knowledge that I can, be it good or bad. If this is only an "If you're not with us, you're against us" forum, then I will gladly pass on the Buell flavored Kool-Aid I. V. and stop frequenting this site. Some people get their rocks off by complaining. I have yet to get that sense from this thread. But these opposing viewpoints give me great pause . . . | ||
| Rocketman |
I don't see it as bashing Buell when I'm stating facts about their unreliability versus some bullshit stats that Buell fanatics spout at will. It pisses me off to hear these lies when I've probably suffered more than most yet stayed faithful to the marque. Quit telling me I'm disrespectful and making this personal. If Court is telling the truth then make him post the f**king stats. Let's all see them. What after all can anyone wanting to praise Buell to the high heavens gain from not showing these stats? Fact is they don't exist. These so called firms who've sent folks to tour Buell to figure out how it's possible to get this level of quality with HUMANS building the bikes, where did these firms get the data in the first place? Name the firms. Name the folks. Otherwise don't call me disrespectful without backing up what you support without the proof otherwise you're the one being disrespectful to my opinion. Yes I'm entitled. I bought into the bullshit, and others still are. As for Saab. I'm not in anyway emotionally attached to the marque. I use to be until some American corporation bought into them and totally ruined Saab forever. As for Ducati. I had no desire to see Troy Bayliss take the WSB crown today on a Ducati. Much rather I'd have seen James Toseland win on a Honda. Where racing is concerned Ducati have nothing to prove. Do I like my 916? Man it is just such an awesome motorcycle it makes anything Buell ever built seem like a complete rip off. I doubt anyone could not like a 916 for one reason or another. At least with Ducati you are buying exotica for your money. Am I a Ducati die hard. Not a chance. In fact there is but one company that I'm truly passionate about when it comes to transport of one sort or another. TVR thanks. Now there's a company Buell could do well to emulate in every way, and I've been saying so for years. Rocket | ||
| Bads1 |
Steve then you haven't payed much attention to few peoples history and out brakes every time they have a problem. | ||
| Thepup |
Court,I didn't talk to an insurance rep,but the owner of the shop has.I've been lucky,my bike has been covered for everything that has went wrong.The owner of the shop,who has had Buells and his son has one,was told a few things by the ins. rep that makes me believe that the XB isn't as reliable as we are expected to believe.I believe what the owner of the shop says just as much if not more than what you or any annony says. | ||
| Bads1 |
Believe a shop owner over Court..... that frigg'n funny as hell. | ||
| Rocketman |
That's a VERY inaccurate statement. Beaer in mind that Badweb, and the internet if general, is not at all a good indicator of or representative of Buells in general. Few folks, having a wonderful ownership experience, go seek out a forum to cheer. Buell tracks warranty $$ per unit mfg and I'm pleased to tell you that the XB series is extraordinary. In fact, I think you'd be quite entertained at some of the firms who have sent folks to tour Buell to figure out how it's possible to get this level of quality with HUMANS (egads...I am one!) building the bikes. Elves are incredible. This has spiraled into an argument, enjoy yourselves. Is there any wonder with statements like that above? Please explain as a representative of Buell how such statements appease the suffering amongst us who also happen to own (unreliable) Buells? Rocket | ||
| Thepup |
Bads,I know the shop owner personally,and yes I believe the shop owner over Court. | ||
| Bads1 |
Yeah I know many shop owners to... personally that doesn't mean I believe them. Your problems may stem from your shop.  | ||
| Thepup |
Bads,this is the first time going to this shop,so that theory doesn't work. | ||
| Indy_bueller |
What I see here are a few people bitching about thier motorcycles, vs. a dozen who say they have had no problems. I myself own a '03 XB9R with 12,500 miles. I have only had a couple small problems, one was the o-ring that seals the speedo sensor started to seep oil. The other was bad bushings on the front brake rotor mounting points. Other than that, no problems. I would also like to see hard data on warranty repairs. Until then, its all hearsay. All of this "I know a guy that knows a guy that talked to a guy" means exactly squat. Maybe this guy was a Honda fan that hated Harley Davidson and Buell, and a pathological liar to boot? Likewise, the opposite side can talk about how the record is spotless. Unless the data is provided, talking about it means nothing. All we can do is guess based on the experiences described here, which will no doubt be interpreted differently by each side. | ||
| Bads1 |
Pup if you know this shop owner personally why are you using him for the first time??? | ||
| Thepup |
I didn't realize he could do extended warranty work on my bike.I also wanted someone that had access to the Buell factory last time,this time I really didn't care. | ||
| Blake |
Steve, You are confused. As evident by the many threads on this wonderful Buell enthusiasts site dealing with issue and problem, we EMBRACE reporting of any and all issues/problems with any Buell motorcycle. It is one major reason why we are here. But please don't confuse those valuable contributions to BadWeB with others that only seek to badmouth and deride Buell motorcycles. One is people looking for advice. The other is just plain miserableness. Sean, You don't listen. Try listening. You are way out of line. Coming here to spout derision against Buell motorcycles is out of line. Figure it out mate. You can do it. | ||
| Odinbueller |
I had posted this a while back, but just to clarify: Factory Warranty = An assurance of quality from a manufacturer for a specified product to cover certain repairs during a specified time at no cost to the consumer. Extended SERVICE PLAN (Not Warranty!) = An insurance policy against mechanical failure for certain components for a specified time with a certain amount paid by the consumer as a deductible. Either way, they are required to provide a list of components that are covered by their warranty or ESP. Anything less is illegal I believe. As far as quality, if you base your opinion on posts from the BadWeb, you'd think these bikes need an act of God to function. However, the happy non-posts of "everything is a-ok" go unnoticed, because they are not there. For every single negative opinion, there are 10 opinions to the contrary, and are nowhere near as vocal about it to boot. In my professional experience, Buell quality is superb. I am in the middle of a concern with an XB owner whose confidence in the machine has faltered. I have checked it over, other technicians have checked it over, and we all know the bike is sound, however the owner, who has had a rough time from the selling dealership up until now, wants a second opinion, and the Motor Company will come out to check everything over. I do not blame or fault this owner for his trepidation; he has been wronged and is understandably cautious. We'll do whatever we can to show the owner the bike is fine. Think of it this way; I have worked on our XB12R race bike, with little invested in modifications. The bike has been in 8 crashes that I know of, 1 of which the bike was flying, 6 of which I have repaired, and the bike tracks straight, the power train is sound, and the motor pulls as strong as it did when I was given the machine to care for. My personal experience; I have a 2002 S3T Thunderbolt, 13,000 miles, left stock, and have had absolutely no problems whatsoever. I believe the 2002 tuber model year was the only time that a Buell wasn't involved with a recall. I guess the warranty claims that the Motor Company gets were examined and remedied, so warranty data is examined and used to the consumers' benefit. As far as ESP, I agree with Court. Insurance companies are not mechanics, and the two should have never been allied. But here we are. I am not pointing the following to any firm or organization mentioned prior, so don't get all bent out of shape when I say this: Several shops will call in false or inflated warranty or ESP claims to try to make a quick buck. The factory warranty will call the problem part back for examination, and if it is not faulty, the claim is denied and the shop is eventually penalized. An ESP claim is called in, and the claim is either approved on initial contact or an adjuster is dispatched to examine the situation. Either way, the ESP is not dealing with a technician that knows the machine, an adjuster is the only contact the shop has. It's easy to pull the proverbial wool over the eyes of this poor individual if the shop were unscrupulous enough. The ESP company gets enough of these claims, and they may talk to another shop owner on a visit, and in idle chit chat, say "Man, these bikes are pieces of sh*t!". No basis in fact needed, just experience in the field. Experience that may be skewed because of the bad apples in the barrel we cohabitate with others of a lesser professional fiber. And the final note on perceptions of quality; look at whoever is servicing the machine, or not servicing the machine. Therein may lay answers about quality. Buells are not perfect, and are prone to failures, but no where near what is perceived by the general public. These are my opinions based on experience, take or leave them. But the horse is dead on this subject; can we stop beating up on it? For all future posters, please utilize Blake’s nifty search feature before opening this can of worms yet again. Chris (Message edited by odinbueller on October 01, 2006) | ||
| 98s1lightning |
Being new here I wanted to stay on the sidelines and watch but I must chime in. A friend "who shall remain nameless" Chris has a firebolt 12 and on more than one occasion it has been in the shop for warranty. As far as I know they have replaced the rear piston & cylinder, done some tranny work and a few other things, nothing so big that it would warrant getting rid of it but enough to be disappointed. Now the good thing here is that the dealer has stood right by and fixed all problems thus far, thanks Palmdale H.D. Now as far as my problems......well I have an older POS. My old 98 S1 has yet to leave me busted, thats right, never a problem that was the bikes fault, either shody shop work or poor quality parts but she is still running strong. I ride my bike very hard and with plenty of other brand bikes, today alone I put over 400 miles on it and it got me home fine. Need I mention that she's about to turn 30,000 miles? I have replaced the cams, carb, rear shock and the header but thats on me not BUELL. The stock header was a let down but all is well now thanks to Al @ American Sport Bike.  I would like to ad that I do most all my own work on it now and perhaps a Buell is not the bike for those who may be mechanicly challenged. | ||
| Stevasaurus |
Steve, You are confused. Maybe so. I saw a guy venting because it seems he received a "statistical anomaly" bike. I then saw I guy chime in who seemed to have a similar circumstance. I do not have your duties as a moderator, so I don't have a scorecard as for whom is or is not a troll. But I wasn't picking up any "troll" vibe aside from the alleged insurance claim stat'. I just got alarmed when I started reading the "this is for ENTHUSIASTS" posts. God knows that most dealers don't know what is going on with these bikes, so I rely on this site exclusively. I need to know about rubbing wires and bad speedo' sensors and what fluid is going to make a stator go funky prematurely, etc. because where else is there to go? Take my "confusion" as a sincere desire to always know the bad with the good. | ||
| Blake |
What in the way of useful information did you imagine you'd gained from any of the posts by puppy jerk? Please enlighten me. |
