| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
Interesting... "Idiot"... "WEAKlings"... Just curious, do you view all of us who didn't join the military as "weak" and "afraid"? Did you once again forget about the rules of this discussion forum or are you too weak to honor them? Which of my civil rights has been eroded. I want to go protest against such an egregious act, but I don't know what you are talking about. The interesting truth is that Americans actually enjoy more liberties today than we did at anytime in the previous 90 years or more. The examples are legion including women's rights, prohibition, military draft, civil rights, workplace rights, the "right" to abortion, the right to produce and purchase pornography, "gay" rights. Which of my rights is being eroded again? | ||
| Grndskpr |
Which of my rights is being eroded again? The right to bear arms, its being eroded daily The right to NOT have unlawfull seizure, thats been eroded a bit The right to not have excesive fines imposed, what is considered excesive for say speeding I found this one to be very interesting in how it relates to Iraq and japan for that matter: Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void. So there are a few being eroded wouldnt you say, and a few being ignored, but i am no constitution scholar, so maybe someone else can explain R | ||
| Ryker77 |
Blake, you do have a valid point. No I don't view non-military people as weak, not at all. I would view a person like you as a good strong willed person. Who would stand up in person and say your wrong. Some people will only talk the talk but never walk the walk. We as Americans also place more people in prison have greatly increased taxes. And while some groups have revieved "rights" others have lost some. read up on the "patriot act", drug laws, and tax rules. You'll see that while in writing people have rights. But in reality most people can't afford a lawyer or understand the legal system to get those rights. Kinda like how most very rich people place there money in offshore accoutn to avoid taxes. Reality. | ||
| Ryker77 |
BTW.. its not Hispanc bashing. I've said positive things about them. Would even had like to seen ole shrub spend the 300,000,000,000 on south and central America- instead of the sandbox. If the insurgents were Germans. I would be just at upset. But they do have good beer. So I might not be as upset.  Read up on what the founding fathers have wrote on this matter. Very interesting. | ||
| Jimidan |
How about them XBRR's!! Do you think that Jeremy will show up for the Mid-Ohio race this weekend? Where are all of the cheerleaders for this race...off on some other non-Buell topic complaining their little hearts out? Are they fairweather fans, or will they show up when the going gets tough?  jimidan Go Buells! | ||
| Brucelee |
"Kinda like how most very rich people place there money in offshore accoutn to avoid taxes. Reality" Data Please. I would find this interesting. In actuality, there are plenty of legal methods for deferring taxes, not too many for avoiding them altogether (legal that is). However, if you want an education on how the wealthy can legally avoid estate taxes, do a google on "Kennedy family trusts taxation avoidance." You will find that interesting I think! | ||
| Court |
>>>Kinda like how most very rich people place there money in offshore accoutn to avoid taxes. Reality. Placing money in an off shore account would neither avoid nor defer taxes. My wife runs an international Hedge Fund with a vairety of off shore entities and foreign affiliations. The 3 fellows she works for are all billionaires and pay more taxes than I will see money in a lifetime. They avoid taxes agressively but play by the rules. If you knew my wife, you'd understand.  She's the one the SEC has called on in a couple instnaces for sorting out very complex international trading situations. Would you uncessarily pay more taxes than you owe? | ||
| Ryker77 |
an increasing number of corporations are either moving their headquarters offshore or establishing subsidiaries in offshore tax havens such as Bermuda(2), at a time when the actual taxes they pay are approaching historical lows. Most studies indicate that corporate taxes are at their lowest levels in decades. Although the statutory corporate income tax rate is up to 35%, according to Robert McIntyre of the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, the top 250 companies paid what amounts to only a 20.1 % rate in income taxes in 1998, down from 22.9% in 1996 and well below the 26.5 percent that a similar group paid in 1988 (3). McIntyre estimates that currently, big corporations pay only about 15% of their pretax U.S. profits in federal income taxes. (4) Looked at from the perspective of who pays what portion of the nation's overall taxes, the decline in corporate taxation is even more stark. In a recent special investigation on corporate taxes, Business Week reported that in 1940, companies and individuals split the federal income tax bill equally. Corporations now pay only 13.7% of the federal income tax bill and individuals pay 86.3%. (5) According to the Congressional Budget Office, corporate income taxes in 2002 contributed less than one-tenth of overall revenues (down from 15 % in the 1970s and 25% in the 1950s and 1960s) and represent approximately 1.5 percent of GDP, down from 4.1 percent in 1965. (6) I only gave a general idea about how "rights", right on paper and right in reality. There are some people that have more rights then others. I know a few people in my county who are able to drive drunk becuase they are either law enforcement or married to LEA. Is that a legal right to do so? NO. But are they able to do so, YES. Right? Do some rich people/compaines aviod taxes? who really knows the tax laws are how many pages thick? | ||
| Blake |
Roger, Our right to bear arms? The assault weapons ban is no more. So I don't see it, but I am vigilant on that particular issue. Protection against "unlawful search/seizure"? I think you'll find today's standards and judgements a lot more on the side of the "suspect" compared to decades ago. It takes a warrant, no? I have no serious concerns about the respect of my property or homestead against such activity. Not sure there is a right protecting us against excessive fines other than the prohibition of "cruel and unusual punishment." Not sure that any speeding ticket fine fits that level of excess. If it does, that is a local/state issue and someone should challenge it's constitutionality. Wes (Ryker), Your perception of "reality" and mine are quite different. As to the "Hispanic bashing", I'd say that you may contend that you did not intend to convey such a negative connotation, but only an Hispanic who has read your comments here can judge whether or not they were offensive to him/her. To be frank and honest, your commentary here does come across as bigotted to me. Maybe try a tone that is more thoughtful/constructive, less angry/confrontational in nature. America has ALWAYS been a nation in flux. There is no need to fear that. Our continued prosperity and success is only at risk if/when we let our prejudices and fears divide us. I do agree though, imigrants should find their way here legally and we should do what is necessary to make illegal immigration a very unattractive endeavor. Taxes? Not this again! LOL! Wealthy folks pay a much higher percentage of their income than the rest of us, until/unless you wrap social security / medicare into the pot. A married couple each making right at or just below the social security taxable wage ceiling (somewhere around $90K) are being taxed at the same rate as someone earning millions, and that in my opinion is wrong. In my opinion, FICA/Medicare taxes should be rolled into the mix along with plain old income tax. Sure the graduated rates would need to be adjusted accordingly. No longer would so many people not pay any income tax. They'd just pay the same as what they previously paid to FICA. Taxing corporations is double taxation in my view. One reason outsourcing can be attractive is that foreign corporations are not subject to income tax when they sell their products or services abroad. When an American based corporation sells goods and/or services abroad, they still must pay tax on the profits here in America. Kinda makes it tougher for American corporations to compete with our foreign competition, no? Why tax the corporation's profit, then also tax the individual stock holder(s) who recieve that profit? I'm sure Richard will tell us.  | ||
| CJXB |
the damn country hasn't been the same since they let the Germans in.  Nope, it's even BETTER, they do have good beer and October Fest is fun, although it is in Sep in WI like Roger said, never understood that ??!! | ||
| Grndskpr |
The assault weapons ban is no more. So I don't see it, but I am vigilant on that particular issue. Not refering to the assault weapons, larger city's like chicago do not allow hand guns and to own a hunting rifel cost more than most rifels in the long run, i suspect you will see this more and more, so while you dont see it, its because you live in texas It takes a warrant, no? No look up the millenium law, there are cases that you do not need a warrant, hence the noise over illegal wire taps Not sure there is a right protecting us against excessive fines Thats what it says under the bill of rights, thats why i ask what is considered excessive, is $325 for your first ticket and a suspended licence for your second excessive????I think so, but in il thats what you get for speeding in a construction zone hear CJ: Oktoberfest - 16 days of drinking, eating, singing and dancing - used to begin in Oktober. However, in 1880, it was changed to begin in September because of the bad weather in Oktober. Now the Oktoberfest begins on a Samstag (Saturday) in September and ends the first Sonntag (Sunday) in Oktober. R | ||
| CJXB |
16 days of drinking Well, after 16 days of drinking I don't even know what month it is anymore anyway !!  | ||
| Skyguy |
Knew I liked the Aussies-- Australians got it right Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks. A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on national television. "I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia: one the Australian law and another the Islamic law, that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said. Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want ! to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said. Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians." "However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia." "However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand." "This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle." "This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom" "We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the language!" "Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture." "We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us." "If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like " A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others. "This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'." "If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted." Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, American citizens will find the backbone to start speaking and voting the same truths!! | ||
| Cowboy |
sure sounds good to me. | ||
| Blake |
If George Bush espoused a similar commentary, the Republicans would sweep the election. | ||
| Brucelee |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "If George Bush espoused a similar commentary, the Republicans would sweep the election" Boy, I sure hope your right but expect you are wrong. The liberal press and the Blue States would have a coronary. Howard Dean would have a stroke AND a coronary! BTWC-Can we get John Howard here to run in our next election? (Message edited by brucelee on September 27, 2006) | ||
| Bomber |
I think most everyone of any party would support such a stance by our gubmint -- I believe some parts of the elecorate would be (reasonably) interested in the defintions and methods used to determine suitzability for remaining in the country -- the devil's in the details, and to be honest, I wouldn't be too comfortable with the present administration doing the sorting -- their agenda is very clear, and way too limiting for me | ||
| Cowboy |
I dont think I wuld go blameing any one party this has been going for far to long , both partys are to blame for the mess we are in. | ||
| Blake |
This issue is pretty much indistinguishable along party lines. It seems to be much more of a personal or geopolitically driven thing. Bombedero, Clear agenda? Too limiting?  'Splain please. I can say that my thinking on the issue has evolved quite a bit. With a priority put on securing the border and enforcing the laws on the books wrt employers, the administration's "path to citizenship" plan is okay by me. | ||
| Bomber |
Blake -- the present administration is very fundamentalist chirstian in it's politics -- while it's good to know a leaders belief, so that one may more accurately predict his or her behavior in the future, my feeling is that the present adminstiration is injecting much too much religion into it's political operations -- while fundamentalist, evangelical religion is of great comfort to many around the world and in the US, and, therefor, of great value to many, having this as one of the defining points of a political party is very limiting to those who do not share it . . . stem cell research is a good example of this -- while fraught with opportunities to do bad things, it is equally fraught (perhaps moreso) wiht opportunities to do good securing borders would be good enforcing existing laws would be good path to citiezenship is a great start on an all-encompassing immegrant policy and, lastly, forgive me for sounding, o, I dunno, Republican, but a lil fiscal restraint would also be good ;-} | ||
| Acejay |
as an aussie i would like to remind you all that article does not speak for all australians. this statement in particular - "This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle." - is particulary offensive, we are a young country that began as a prison colony of all things. we are all recent immigrants - thats what MAKES australia, our huge cultural diversity. certainly there needs to be controls to on exactly who is let in, but in general we are a big country - there is plenty of room. as long as our laws are accepted and obeyed then alls good. as for this statement - "If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture." - bugger that, i'm not a big fan of religion and i sure as hell aint leaving my own country because this guy is. what i believe in is separation of church and state. i havent read the rest of this thread, but just had to chime in there. | ||
| Prez |
wow..this thread is kinda taking a strange turn,i gotta go back and read the 2 or 3 pages i've missed... 7 pages is down rite funny though. i'm just gonna ramble,because i dont talk about taxes,the goverment,etc, but i do like poking fun at big sandy vaginas!!! hahahahaahaa  | ||
| Blake |
Bomber, President Bush is a Methodist, not an fundamentalist evangelical Christian. He like most (70%+ I believe is correct) Americans are opposed to abortion on demand. That is not a purely evangelical Christian stance, not at all. Why is it that some folks feel like the federal government should force all American taxpayers to fund embryonic stem cell research when so many Americans oppose the practice of destroying viable embryos? The misinformation in the embryonic stem cell issue is legion, a lot like the Global Warming hysteria. Especially when other stem cell research has recently proven equally if not more promising, to the point of recently finding a way to generate pluripotency in non-embryonic stem cells, the one big advantage to embryonic stem cells is no more. Better to vote against putting an end to partial birth abortion? The overzealous desire to permit the destruction of innocent life is much more troubling to me than an overzealous desire to protect innocent life and hold it sacred. Really, on which side of such an issue would you prefer to err? Folks want to fund embryonic stem cell research? Hey have at it! But why pray tell me do folks feel that I, when I am adamantly opposed to it, should be forced to fund it as well? Who won the election and by a majority, the first majority in twelve years? He who wins gets to be President, right? I think he made his agenda clear when he was running for office, no? It's a big part of why he won, no? Ain't democracy great? I still cannot understand the pervasive hostility against Christianity that seems to be growing in our culture, even the most conservative evangelical/fundamental Christianity. In my view the left wing has contrived a big scary boogie man for themselves, much the same as the right wing has done concerning the secularists. And what the heck does any of that have to do with illegal immigration? I fear that short of another American Revolution, the idea of fiscal restraint is out the window. The federal goverment has Americans brainwashed into accepting heavy taxation as something normal. The newly enacted plan to list on the internet all congressional spending may help. Here's some old information from 2001 presenting the opposing view along with facts to support it. Here's some information on recent developments that would appear to render the need to destroy human life unnecessary. The mass media in my view has done a horrendously poor job of reporting objectively on the issue of stem cell research. Did you even know that of all the ~70 stem cell treatments that have proved effective around the world, not a single one employed embryonic stem cells; all emplyed adult or chord blood stem cells? Does that not give you pause? Politics versus science. Sad stuff. Who has the "agenda"?  In my view, and based upon the science I've seen, the embryonic stem cell and global warming advocates have the unsubstantiated agenda. Fun stuff. | ||
| Blake |
I still don't understand how President Bush is too limiting wrt the illegal immigration issue. He seems pretty darn liberal in his thinking on that issue actually. | ||
| Bomber |
Blake -- I never said that the present adminsitration is too limiting wrt immigration -- it inherited a situation that has literally been centuries in the making, and the fact that it's not squared away yet is in no way an indictment against, or for, this adiminstration. I'll not argue the 70% figure on abortion -- 1, I didn't bring the issue up, as you often do, and 2, I know of no realiable source for the data -- pollsters in this area have a way of finding out what they wish to find out -- bad science any way you measure it Being a methodist in no way precludes one from being a fundamentalist -- as for evangelical, I never said the president was -- angels, pin head, dancing on, again ;-} I'll vote as my Jimminy Cricket guides me, thanks, as you will -- we'll continue to vote the way we have in the past, likely -- as for who one, Dubbya did -- the first time through an act of congress, the second time through a majority of voters -- democracy is awful, terrible, fatally flawed, and the best we've got ;-} As for passive hostility toward christianity, I feel none at all (I assume you are addressing me here) -- I do, however, feel great distrust toward anyone that has the temerity to tell me what to do, how to live, who to love, for the simple reason that they believe they have the truth, the light, and they way on their side -- christian, muslim, demorcrat, fascist, it's all the same to me -- stick to the base, core values in english common law, and get the heck outa my life -- sadly, I agree -- fiscal prudence has gone out the window in the last decade or so -- actully, likely for longer than that, now that I think on it why should YOU be forced to pay for stem cell research? good question! why should I be forced to pay to rebuild the infrastructure in Iraq? reasonable questions, both, I'm thinkin (and mine is rhetorical, btw) what's this got to do with immigration? just this -- if the folks in DC at the moment starting writing the specifics of the rules that would decree who could, and who couldn't be US citezens, I am certain that I would not like what the country looked like when they were done -- as I said, the view from DC is way too limited for my taste -- but hey, what do I know, I'm just a voter, and an ignorant petrol head, too ;-} | ||
| Acejay |
president bush thinks??? when did that start happening.... | ||
| Midknyte |
can't we all just get along? | ||
| Cowboy |
All I can say on the subject is he was elected by the largest vote ever, You have just insulted the largest NO of Americans ever. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"I do, however, feel great distrust toward anyone that has the temerity to tell me what to do, how to live, who to love, for the simple reason that they believe they have the truth, the light, and they way on their side -- christian, muslim, demorcrat, fascist, it's all the same to me -- stick to the base, core values in english common law, and get the heck outa my life -- " BOMBER FOR PRESIDENT! Don't know if you could lead the country through disasters as poorly as Bush, but I'm sure you could spank him on trackdays. | ||
| Bomber |
ROFLMAO -- er, thanks Deej (I think) my vocabulary is bigger as well, but I don't think Condie Rice would listen to me ;-} |
