| Author | Message | ||
     Newfie_buell |
All the US needs now is a giant wall, gun turrets and guard dogs U.S. security chief stands firm on border cards CTV.ca News Staff There is little chance Canadian travellers will get a reprieve from a law requiring them to present secure identity cards at American border crossings, says U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff. Chertoff and Canada's Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day talks in Washington on Tuesday on the issue of secure documents for Canadian and U.S. citizens who wish to visit each others' countries. The Jan. 1, 2008 deadline is one that both the United States and Canada can meet, Chertoff said. The U.S. Congress has already passed a law that will require anyone entering the U.S. to produce documents that prove their identity and citizenship. "We have to work with the law as it currently exists,'' Chertoff said. Only about 22 per cent of Americans hold passports, compared with about half of Canadians. A new identity card, meanwhile, is still being developed for U.S. citizens. Canada is the United States' largest trading partner, conducting an estimated $1.5 billion US in daily business. And trade and tourism officials on both sides of the border are criticizing the U.S. measure, claiming it will hurt travel and cost the economy billions. While Canada has objected to the measure, Day said at a joint news conference with Chertoff that it would be irresponsible not to prepare for its implementation. The minister added, however, that Canada will be watching to see whether the U.S. will be ready. "Obviously I raised concerns, some of the same questions that you raised, in terms of -- is it feasible? Those are concerns of interest, those are concerns neighbours raise because they might be concerned about what their neighbour is doing.'' When asked if the U.S. would be really be ready with enough manpower and the technology required to handle stricter inspections by the deadline, Chertoff said: "It seems to me way premature to raise the flag of defeat when I think we have ample precedent and ample ability to meet the deadline." The U.S. law requires passports from all who enter the U.S. -- by airports, boats or land crossings -- by December 31, 2007. In response to concerns over paying the $97 US cost of a passport, the U.S. administration is proposing a cheaper alternative for its citizens -- a PASS card -- that would cost about $50 US. Day said Canada isn't considering a similar document for its citizens, and would continue to require I.D. cards such as driver's licences and birth certificates from Americans crossing the border into this country. (Message edited by Newfie_Buell on April 19, 2006) | ||
| Bomber |
I would classify this along with the shoe removal at airports in the US -- it certainly would have, in fact, stopped an incident in the past earlier in the day -- it may, in fact, have stopped other incidents (which have, rightly, not been publicized), but it's a great deal of effort, cost and, most importantly, PR to show the American People that "something" is being done. there are those that will counter that any effort/cost is appropriate if one incident can be avoided. honorable people disagree all the time. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Ahhh Bomber I also have found this today as well. Its interesting that despite the fact we live free we are being watched by "Big Brother". I really fear where this is going and where its going to end. The Real ID rebellion April 17, 2006, 4:00 AM PT By Declan McCullagh In 1775, New Hampshire was the first colony to declare its independence from oppressive laws and taxes levied by the British crown. Now it may become the first state to declare its independence from an oppressive digital ID law concocted in Washington, D.C. In other news: Drone aircraft may prowl U.S. skies Photos: Airborne laser enlists for missile defense New Hampshire's House of Representatives has overwhelmingly approved a remarkable bill, HB 1582, that would prohibit the state from participating in the national ID card system that will be created in 2008. A state Senate vote is expected as early as next week. The federal law in question is the Real ID Act (here's our FAQ on the topic) that was glued on to a military spending and tsunami relief bill last year. Because few politicians are courageous enough to be seen as opposing tsunami aid, the measure sailed through the U.S. Senate by a 100-0 vote and navigated its way through the House 368 votes to 58. Unless states issue new, electronically readable ID cards that adhere to federal standards, the law says, Americans will need a passport to do everyday things like travel on an airplane, open a bank account, sign up for Social Security or enter a federal building. The U.S. Department of Homeland Security is currently devising regulations for these federalized ID cards. One possibility is that the "electronically readable" requirement will be satisfied by embedding a radio frequency identification (RFID) chip. (They'll already be appearing in U.S. passports starting in October.) That prospect alarmed New Hampshire state Rep. Neal Kurk so much that he gave an impassioned floor speech during the March 8 debate saying the Granite State must not participate in the Real ID system. "There are times, Mr. Speaker, when we must look beyond the mundane and the pragmatic and take a stand based on our values," Kurk said. "I believe this is one of those times...I don't believe the people of New Hampshire elected us to help the federal government create a national ID card." Kurk invoked the memory of Patrick Henry's revolutionary speech, "Give me liberty or give me death," and New Hampshire's motto, "Live Free or Die." "The war on our civil liberties is actually begun," Kurk said. "There's a price to be paid for independence. But I ask you, what price-- liberty?" Kurk's impassioned plea prevailed. Even though a legislative committee had opposed the measure, the House overruled the committee's recommendations by a margin of 217 to 84. A Real ID rebellion? While New Hampshire may be the first, it's not alone. Other state politicians are seething over how the federales are strong-arming them on national IDs. The National Governors Association, hardly a bunch of libertarians, has called the Real ID Act "unworkable and counterproductive." The National Conference of State Legislatures wrote to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff in October, asking him to defer to states' expertise. No doubt much of the political outcry is over money and would evaporate if the Feds wrote checks to cover the cost of upgrading state computer systems. (The governors' press release baldly admits they're "asking Congress to fund the changes required" by the Real ID Act. One taxpayer watchdog group puts the cost at $90 per Real ID card.) That would be a shame. Privacy and autonomy are even better reasons to be skeptical of this scheme. There are no rules governing what data that private companies (hotels, retailers, employers) will be able to extract from the Real ID when it's swiped or placed next to an RFID reader. Will information like a home address and Social Security number be disclosed? Will a federal database be alerted whenever the card is swiped or read? And can an RFID'ed license be read from 20 or 30 feet away? Unanswered questions like those are why it's important that state legislators stand up to bullying by Washington. "If New Hampshire passes this bill, we'll be the first domino," Kurk, the state legislator, told me Friday. "We're told there will be other states that follow on." A New Hampshire Senate committee is mulling over the bill (and being lobbied by the motor vehicle agency, because the Real ID Act included a $3 million grant) with a floor vote expected after April 23. A rally is planned for noon on April 22 at the Concord state capitol by an anti-RFID group, and a Web site has sprung up to lobby senators. "Having a national ID would promote a surveillance society that we should all dread," Jim Harper, the director of information policy studies at the free-market Cato Institute, told the state Senate committee last week. The sad thing is that the U.S. Constitution was written to prohibit the federal government from taking such drastic steps. The long-forgotten Tenth Amendment says that powers not explicitly delegated to the Feds "are reserved to the states" or to the people. For now, though, the Real ID rebellion will continue. Patrick Henry's famous resolution in the Virginia legislature condemned "burdensome taxation" in the form of the hated Stamp Act. When more people learn about the Real ID Act, it might just spark a similar revolt today. | ||
| Brucelee |
Imagine if the Mexican Illegals had to have a national ID??? | ||
| Jackbequick |
The "Mexican Illegals" are from there and every other country south of our border and many other directions and countries too. They come across from Mexico because it is easy and the "Jackels" have put a mechanism in place. But it seems reasonable that any resident of the U.S. or Canada with valid I.D. (driver's license for example) would be able cross the border easily. Put a online system in place to verify the I.D. and don't issue the I.D. to anyone that does not meet stringent requirements for getting one. A counterfeit passport is not better than a counterfeit driver's license and bogus passports will be available quickly as soon as the requirement is in place. In California bogus I.D. were a real problem, also people taking bribes and issuing valid I.D. to non-valid applicants. Jack | ||
| Tramp |
driver's license isn't proof of citizenship in either country. much as i'm against illegal immigration, (and I AM) I remember that much of the american west belonged to the mexican people before whitey got there. the average mexican is 5/6 (and more) american indian, and the remainder is psanish, and they were in the west long before northern europeans. hye, i'm all for closing the borders immediately, if not sooner. kick out the mexicans, the guatemalans, the ecuadorans, who's gonna do the dirty work? john q. white-trash sure's hell won't. | ||
| Crusty |
R.I.P. Liberty. I'm free; so long as I have my papers in order, and my Government issued I.D. card, and I clearly state what my business is, and where I'm traveling to. After all, we need to combat those terrorists. Orwell nailed it. He was just a little off on the year. | ||
| Ceejay |
depends on where your at as far as getting the work done. Where I'm at it's hard to find paver work for decent money as many of the other places/companies are using illegals to get it done-thus making it hard to compete when you still have to pay taxes...Kind of makes it up to the consumer, who for the most part has no clue where the workers come from nor do they care. I do agree with the other statement, Native americans and mexican americans were here long before us, problem being is that they want to take from a system that they don't or won't buy into...who pays for hospital bills, the roads to drive on, insurance for a car accident? | ||
| Cochise |
The statement I keep hearing is: "Illegals getting it done..." How do we know it is only the illegals who are doing it, do we ask every one of them if they are legal or not? I live in Rogers, Arkansas, near Springdale, home of Tyson Chicken. I work in Bentonville, AR, near Decatur, home of Peterson Farms, near home of Simmons...get where I am going with this? Chicken Plants...i.e.pull apart, sexers, Turkey Hangers. We have Hog Farms. There are more Hispanics than you can shake a stick at. I don't know if the jobs they hold are ones that the white man won't take, but anyway. If you are up North, just wait, you will be getting more. The only problem I have with SOME of the Hispanics is when they don't learn English. They aren't made to speak English, but WE "have" to speak Spanish so they can understand US, that ain't Bien to me. | ||
| Ceejay |
Comprende Senor, I think that is a load of crap about the white man not taking the jobs, as I know lots of folks that like working outside, with thier hands, building something, etc...Pretty scarey to think about the origins of the post tho. As getting a card so people know who I am is a double edged sword. Takes away a persons resposibility to themselves and others in a way...I guess that is the everything is heading tho... | ||
| Kdan |
Don't know what's the big deal, the USA has made me carry a card since they decided to let me stay here. Granted, they don't know where I am or how to get in touch with me, but they let me stay, since they can't find me. Don't sweat the border. I know at least three places to cross that aren't exactly on the map. | ||
| Bomber |
Small government -- I seem to remember whan that was a goal of one party or another . . . . . | ||
| Bcordb3 |
It appears the Canadian borders aren't as secure as it may seem. Most of the Asian illegals get to Vancouver BC with little difficulty then make it a few miles to White Rock and cross over the border in Blaine Washington. Blaine is where a sharp border guard found a car full of explosive bound for Los Angeles. Maybe New Hampshire will begin a seperatist movement and annexed to Quebec. I am not bashing anyone. We all have the same problems and they sure aren't going to solved on this forum. I am in the beginning stages in planning a trip the Maritimes this summer. I hope I can get in. I was hoping to meet a couple of the webbers there and have a pint of two. I really like Cape Breton music, Leahy is my favorite and am going to see Natalie MacMaster in a week or so. Please tell me I will be welcome. (Message edited by bcordb3 on April 20, 2006) | ||
| Nsbuell |
Sure you'll be welcome. Let us know when you're coming, there are plenty of pints to be had in Nova Scotia.  | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Sure take the boat across the gulf and hit the Wonderful Island of Newfoundland!!!!! Where the Screech flows like water and the beer is cold and you can always get a good seal flipper dinner. | ||
| M1combat |
BYOB and PLUCK - System of a Down. There's no use in crying over spilled milk. We either need to vote in force and do REAL research into who we would actually like to vote for or we can just let it all come crashing down. Either path is still possible IMHO. I'm prepared for both though. I'll be the one flying the Betsy Ross. |
