| Author | Message | ||
     Tooslow |
Hello I’ve been lerking here for many months and am now ready to step up to the plate and buy a new ’02 M2…….. maybe. I’m going to ask another one of those nasty opinion questions just like the last million opinion questions that you guys have answered in the past. Anyway, it’s so cold outside, what else are you going to do; sit inside and worry about the economy? Thanks in advance for your responses. Buell owners talk quite a lot about how much fun their bikes are to ride, but, Buell owners also are known to ‘twist the wick’ a bit. My question is, how much fun are these bikes to ride at slower speeds? I’m not a real old guy (36), but I’ve had a lot of bikes (over 40). 95% of my riding is on backroads at speeds between 45 and 65MPH. In this environment, I’ve found four cylinder bikes, particularly four cylinder sport bikes, to be very boring. I think that I’d quite riding, if there were no other bikes from which to choose. These bikes are fun when riding very fast, but I only ride at the ‘fun speeds’ a very small percentage of my riding time The bikes that I have found to be most fun, with my riding style, have been my 2000 Enfield Bullet (a blast and reliable, but, at around 20HP, just a touch too slow, even for me), my ’89 Sportster (I loved that one, but the tranny kept breaking. I know, the five speed is much stronger), my ’72 Moto Guzzi Eldorado, as well as some Japanese singles. I had high hopes for the ’02 SV650 that I bought last year, but even it seems a bit sterile, next to my previous examples (wanna buy it?). I’m a guy that would rather cross the country in a ‘flat head’ Ford, than a new Mustang GT. The new Mustang is faster and more refined, but the cost of refinement (and safety features and low emissions) is a loss of mechanical link with the driver. I love that link. So, now I’m thinking Sportster (Sport or standard 883), or this new M2 that my dealer has for $8K, out the door (he has several at that price, if you’re looking). The M2 certainly is ‘a lot more bike for the money’ than the Sportster, but that means nothing if it isn’t fun. I know that the Sportster is fun at my slow speeds, but is the Buell? Does the rubber engine mounts rob the Sportster twin of its personality? For the record, the vibration of my ’89 Sportster never bothered me. The superior chassis of the Buell vs the Sportster is a factor, but ‘fun factor’ is, by far, the biggest issue. This decision is also complicated by the fact that I promised my wife that this would be my last bike until the house is paid for, which will take me five to six years. So, if I may put you to the trouble, do you guys have an opinion? I know that if I was burning the backroads with fast guys every weekend, the M2 would be the clear choice, but, I’m not. I’m a slow guy that usually rides alone, and wants a bike that will generate maximum smiles at moderate speeds over the next several years. Sorry for the length. Thanks Lots ‘TooSlow’ | ||
| Mikej |
Michael, Where are you located? I like my M2 just fine at any speed. I used to have an old XLCH Sportster back in the 70's and given the choice I'd take the M2 over it any day. I'd still like to have the XLCH just for grins, and for the "put one guy over the handlebars" kickstarter, but the M2 wins hands down regardless of the speed. Some of my most enjoyable local rides are around here at speeds between 25-65mph depending on the road with the M2. And if you ever feel the need to take a longer trip some weekend the M2 should be up to the task just fine for that as well. A 30 minute test ride should relieve you of any concerns. And if the riding position bothers you then you can swap out the bars for either the S3T bars for a more upright posture, or for clipons for a little more foreward lean. And as for personality, sit at a traffic light with the M2 idling away and the bike goin' with the motion of the engine, looking like a quarter horse just waitin' to get out of the gate, then just reach down to the throttle and smoothly run her up to 2500-3000rpm and feel it smooth out. When the light turns green, after a quick check for blue lights, let that torque follow your smile as you head into the next corner or onto the next sideroad. Everything the Sportster gives, and more. Smiles are a given. One test ride should answer your questions. Oh, and I've got an S2 as well. But if it comes down to it and if I have to sell one off I think the S2 would be gone simply due to my liking a less faired bike a little better. The M2 is a keeper for my needs and likes. Is this what you were looking for?????  | ||
| Racerboy |
Mike...Real quick...My first Buell was an M2 and I loved it...It's seating position will fit your style exactly and the lack of a larger wind screen will not bother you at the speeds you say you ride...Value of a 2002 is retail-$7,805, trade-$6,345 according to the book BUT we've seen them on eBay for $5,000...The market has fallen out from under these scoots so the book prices are not the true reflection of the market...The warranty that goes with the new bike is worth something but not up to $3,000...Hope this helps... See Ya! Bob | ||
| Newfie_Buell |
Up here in Canada you can pick up a S3 pretty cheap as well, and thats new off the floor. The last time I looked I found one for $11,500 Canadian Funds. As for backroads the ANY BUELL is the bike. Personally I am a fan of the S1. I find when I ride the real twisty coastal roads all you ever need 3rd and 4th gear, there is enough torque to keep you happy. Get the M2, you won't be disappointed. Did I mention the S1 is the greatest bike? | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Michael, I agree totally with Mikej. My M2 is the most "fun" bike I've ever owned. It NEVER fails to put a grin on my face. I often say "It's the most fun you can have with you're clothes on.". The speeds you are looking at for "play time" are right where the M2's are the most fun. They pull like tractors out of a corner, the torque at lower revs is dramatic compared to a standard inline 4. Given your past history with two wheeled vehicles and the variety it's pretty apparent you are not afraid to "go in" when needed. That said, the Buells DO require more TLC than a UJM. Some see that as a bad thing others care to classify it a "character". I like my bike with a bit of character. Gives me something so do on rainy Saturday or Sunday afternoons. If it's fun factor you are looking for, the M2 will beat the Sportster hands down. I use mine as an every day commuter bike, to and from work. Two wheelies on the way in every morning do wonders to get the day off to a good start. Always come in with a smile on my mug. When I get home I frequently just change cloths and go for a 50-100 mile jaunt just for grins. I've taken a 3000+ mile trip for the past two summers with no problems other than a blown speedo sensor and a broken muffler clamp (aftermarket). Can you tell I love my M2? Two words - "Dooo Eeeeet" Take a test drive, you will be assimilated. Brad | ||
| Bluzm2 |
By the way, 8K out the door seems a bit high. Get them to throw in the race kit installed, it wouldn't be too bad a deal. Brad | ||
| Fly |
TooSlow, I too have always loved riding twins (Triumph, Honda, Harley, Buell) at 40-60 mph on the open road. Everything just purrs in this range, as mph, rpm, torque, wind resistance, sound and vibration all come together nicely. Nothing demands too much attention. Both rider and bike are in bliss under these conditions. However, the Buell is by far the most fun. You can putt along on it as stated above when it suits your desire, but it is also very capable when you want to turn up the heat. Great torque, fun power, nice handling, comfortable ergos.....and you won't miss the vibration from the saddle (but don't worry, it's still there working away on non-isolated parts!) | ||
| M2cyclone00 |
Tooslow, The Sportster & the M2 are my favorite choices for what you're describing. I think the Sportster is a little more fun than the M2 at 45mph on roads that are slightly curvy or straight. On very curvy roads, I'll take the M2. Both are great fun! I don't think the rubber engine mounts, rob the M2 of it's character. It does have a different character than the Sportster however, with more vibration at idle and much less at higher rpms. I prefer the 883 over the 1200's as it seems far better balanced. I don't think you can go wrong with either the Sportster or an M2. Dave | ||
| Rick_A |
I haven't owned any other bike...but my Buell still gives me the same grins today as it did 19 months ago when I first bought it. If you miss your vibration Bartel's makes aluminum rear isolator stiffeners that give you vibes all the time...it only gets smooth at terminal speeds. The only downside is you have to keep a closer eye on things. The upside is that it'll feel rock solid. I also think your dealers price is a good couple thou high... | ||
| Buelliedan |
They are all great!! See my profile if you have any questions!! | ||
| Hans |
Hi Tooslow, "I’m not a real old guy (36), " Well, I’m not a real old guy (63), but sure the slowest Buell rider in Holland. I really enjoy riding slowly, not exceeding any speed limit, and taking all my time to look around. And we have even the very tall European gearing. Once at 3000 RPM all vibrations are suddenly gone. There will be no problem to find the gearing with its sweet spot in the speed range you mentioned. The seat is also right for those speeds: Slightly upright and without double folding your legs in the knee joints. The only thing I do miss sometimes is the ultra slow walking speed without clutch: I dismount then and walk to have a closer look on interesting objects. The sunny side is that, at the end of the ride, the way home seems shorter than ever with any vehicle: Then the bike seems to enjoy itself and brings you back with an high average speed while you still are driving slowly and completely at ease. Never found out exactly how that is possible but it lets me grin each time. The fact that you have plenty power to pass a long vehicle in shortest time and that the M2 does it without the fuzz of screaming RPM`s makes riding so relaxed together with its superb handling characteristics of course. M2, finest allround bike ever build. Need for maintenance is minimal and easy do it yourself stuff. Consumption unbelievable low for its displacement. If you wish, you can leave it bone stock, except for rejetting what has best been done before delivering. My good dealer would have done it even without asking. Well, you still can discuss a good "winter price". Enjoy Hans. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The M2 is the bike you want. A lot more practical and more fun then the sportster, though the sportster is cool. I experienced the exact same thing you did on the SV650. Hopped on it expecting a twin, and it felt like a torque tuned four. That's fine, but I want a twin that feels like a twin. I love my M2. The only bike I *might* ever trade it for would be an XB9S, or a cherry older S1, and even then it would be a tearful parting. Bill | ||
| Court |
Too slow: I see you have met my European Counter Part, Hans...a youthful 63. I am one of the oldest Buell riders in the world. It's not that I am OLD, per se, but I am high mileage. Fortunately, like some of the "things" in Texas I didn't forfeit my looks growing old, nor did I become grumpy like kids in Brooklyn. The M2, given the traits you describe, hits YOUR mark squarely. It provides FUN, REAL WORLD, TRACTABLE power at all the speeds you'll encounter. Hear not the calls of the detractors who take the bike to task for not topping out at 162. The Buell will provide you many miles of satisfying riding. I'd repeat the same thing I've been saying about the M-2 for years, but someone else will jump in here and quote me anyway.  Court Canfield NYC | ||
| Blake |
I think $8,000 out the door is a fair price. The tube frame models are destined to be collector's items, and isn't the list price $8,900? Geez, ya bunch of cheapskates. LOL! Cyclones RULE! I'm on my third. I enjoy a mix of everything from putting down the backroads, to cross contry touring, to tearing up the racetrack. It does it all. | ||
| Racerboy |
Mike...Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...Eight large is WAAAY too much!...Who's money is buying this scoot, eh?...Anyway, Blake has his tongue so far inserted into his cheek it's going to take a chiropractor to relocate it...He does have superb taste in rides, though... By the way, BIKE, the UK rag consistantly called the M2 the "best" Buell...They really liked it... See Ya! Bob | ||
| Dynarider |
Collectors items??? Maybe the original S1, but I doubt the M2 ever will be. | ||
| Racerboy |
I remember Court expounding on which Buell's he felt would be subject to becoming collector's items and, you're right, the M2 was not on the list...If we ask real nice he'll likely post his short list here...Mike, Court is widely recognized as an expert authority on most things Buell so take note...His is the voice of reason and experience (bah! to this "old" talk, Court)... See Ya! Bob | ||
| Buelliedan |
Court is "the voice of reason"???? Yea, and I'm the voice of minimalism!! hahahahaha!! | ||
| Aesquire |
You've heard from the experienced, now for the rookie. M2 beats the Sportster in every possible category except throw your leg over height. About 50% more ponies than a Sportster, and Far wider powerband. I'm still on break in (snow grumble grumble) and the M2 Purrs down the highway like a happy tiger. (I know, Alan Gold (lion tamer) is a pal of mine) Nothing I have ridden makes 55 mph as bearable. Handling is right now, any line you like, and the brakes gave me my first 2 finger stoppie. My bud Wulfstan, when I brought the M2L over said "Thats small." after a short test ride, he then complained that it "turns too easy, not enough muscle needed...Brakes are too good..." "Harley finally made a bike that stops & handles" I had to correct that misconception. A buell is like a cheeta, Cat, but doggie characteristics. Handles like a superbike, pulls like a big twin, makes your ears jiggle in a different plane than your lips at stoplights. Buy an M2.  | ||
| Aesquire |
Look at the "you know you own a Buell when" listing on this board. Too much of that is gospel truth. Some has already happened to me. I know what you mean about UJM's, I've had em, Been Bored. | ||
| Crank |
TooSlow: Years ago I was a cafe racer. However, I sold my motorcycles ('79 Bonneville, '76 RD 400, and a Moto Guzzi V500 Monza) nearly 18 years ago when my youngest daughter was born. Over the years I occasionally rode and in the back of my mind thought than when the time is right I'm buying another bike. Well, my oldest graduates from college in May and the youngest starts college in August. In other words - the time is right. At age 52 I no longer have the balls to ride like I once did. In fact, I doubt that I could ever ride close to the limits of most of the new machines that are available. Therefore, top speed was of little importance. I wanted a bike that would be fun to take on back roads, serve as a commuter, or allow me to make a several hour trip in "relative" comfort. Also, I wanted a bike that was a bit "different". I looked long and hard at the Sportster 883 and the 883R. I was close to closing the deal until I happened to take a test ride on a used 2000 M2. This bike can do all that I wanted in a bike. This plus the fact that I didn't want to be another 50 something old fart that bought a Harley, closed the deal. In my opinion for what you get with the M2 buying the Sportster would be a waste of money. Put a smile on your face every time you ride...Get the M2!!! | ||
| Ferris |
A Buell...makes your ears jiggle in a different plane than your lips at stoplights. that's one of the funniest things i've ever read! TooSlow, you KNEW what you'd hear when you asked the question, right? the Truth is easy: go test ride a Buell. and be sure to test ride the one you'd actually like to own, because you WILL be riding it home FB | ||
| Rick_A |
I talked to some sales people at various dealers about this on the weekend...about how a lot of people buy bikes based on the number wars between manufacturers and magazine test opinions. They thought it was ridiculous but brought them plenty of sales. I was looking specifically at "real world" streetbikes rather than the repliracers which is what started the discussions... ...and all Buells fit perfectly in that category. | ||
| Eeeeek |
For what you described, the M2 sounds perfect. If you pay $8k for it, I have some merchandise I'd like to sell you Vik | ||
| Court |
>>>how a lot of people buy bikes based on the number wars between manufacturers and magazine test opinions. I credit Obe Jaun Kanobe with the definitive quote with regards to that...."the force has a powerful effect on the weak mind". Know you, your riding style and buy for YOU. At various times in my riding years, different bikes have "moved" me ranging from "blasters" to touring bikes. The science of motorcycling encompasses so much more than sheer speed. It's a symbiosis of things that culminate in your butt and your mind. The kinesiology is mental as well as physical. The M-2 Cyclone excels in providing a wide range of satisfing riding experiences. Anybody can test a motorcycle for "fast"...I suggest you test for fun. Do and "you'll M2 too" Court (an aging Court ) | ||
| Aesquire |
I lucked out, Big. 2001 M2L, bought it without a test ride, because it fit. Last carb Buell, Last year for Reactor Yellow M2, (not my choice, but it grows on ya) the bugs are worked out, and has the best potential for massive hop ups. (Carb again) Most "standard" Buell, Least bodywork. I bought the Buell Custom saddle 'cause the first girl I gave a ride to complained, (good thing I didn't have a S1) and I didn't NEED the M2L saddle. Test Ride on the roads you ride. | ||
| Newfie_Buell |
I am going to throw in here again. If the M2 is as much fun as my S1 then it is the SECOND GREATEST BIKE I bought my S1 sight unseen (apart from a picture that was e-mailed to me) for its sheer beauty. I then jumped on a plane flew to the next province and picked it up. The next day I was back on the island. Yes I actually rode 1500km in 24hrs for my first ride on the S1. Back in 2001 when I bought my 1998 S1 (still sitting on the retailers floor), I had a choice of the M2 or the S1 and I took the S1 because I liked the Billet Metallic and the inverted forks better. At the time both also listed for $9999.00 Canadian - How could you lose? Get the M2 unless you can find a S1 sitting on the floor. | ||
| Eeeeek |
Most dealers won't let you test ride, so that's all many people have to go on. Truth be known, it's not such a bad way to shop. I do the same thing with cars. I research as much as I can about a prospective vehicle and then buy what I decide is best when I can get the deal I want. I spent a few months shopping for my last bike and I'm more than pleased with it. Likewise, I spent a few months shopping for my Buell, too. Vik | ||
| Colin |
Tooslow Going back to your original question - don't do it. It is true that the M2 is a sweet handling, fun loving machine at most speeds, but I don't think your average speeds are demanding enough. If you are happy to potter about in top gear, or prepared spend a lot of time in 3rd or 4th then you'll be fine. On the other hand, you may find that prolonged under-use of the bike's potential will result in a return of the boredom factor. My guess is that a bike that works harder for more of the time would be more fun in the long run. On the other hand, you may just find yourself travelling faster! Good luck whatever you decide. | ||
| Tooslow |
Thanks for all of the thoughtful (and fast) responses. You guys are great....poets, philosophers, and comedians; my kind of crowd. I appreciate the time and effort that went into the responses. ‘Valid points and perspectives, from all. My mind still isn’t made up, but I will be begging the test ride that many of you have suggested. Unfortunately, my dealer test bike is a ’99 X1. I realize that the power on an X1 is higher up the tach than on a M2, and the suspension and riding position slightly different. Also, the dealer is so desperate to move the M2s, I bet that he would prep one of those for me to try, but then I’d feel more committed. Besides, I wonder what would be more representative of the Buell experience; a mature X1, or a no-miles M2. I know that the break-in miles on my Sportster made a dramatic difference in the bike, in many ways. I’m hearing you on the price, too. It might be hard to pay 8K OTD for the M2, when a yellow XB9-S is sitting there, as well, for a couple grand more. I’ll have to see what a little negotiation can accomplish ( I wonder, too, what ‘personality’ , if any, one might give up between an M2 and XB9-S……Oh, that would be a different debate, wouldn’t it? And, I probably shouldn’t be too much of a troublemaker with my first couple of messages) Anyway, one main point that keeps the Sportster a consideration, is reason that Colin noted. You know the old saying, “It’s more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow”. (My choice for the ultimate Japanese sportbike is the 250 Ninja. Why? You can flog its heart out all day without death or loss of license) While I seldom exceed 65 or 70 MPH, I do ride briskly, given the curvy roads I choose. Thanks again, and I’ll let you guys know which I choose. Mike |
