| Author |
Message |
    
Aesquire
| | Posted on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 08:35 pm: | 
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Aaron, happy you sold the heads, I INTENDED to run the M2 stock for a season, then hop up as needed / desired. You folks (collectively) are a bad influence. Now all I need is a venturi ring & race ignition, and motor work should be done for this season. ( except for tune work, the most time consuming, and rewarding part ) If you still had the heads I'd have to get them (you know, "can't afford to let such a bargain go" pms is really kicking in 17 deg F today. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 10:06 pm: |
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Aaron,
That chart is WAY better than Kevin's. It is more like a composite of the best of mine and Kevin's put together. VERY impressive!
When you say "almost a twin to the setup in Kevin Hearn's bike", what is the difference between the two? |
Aaron
| | Posted on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 11:10 pm: |
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Kevin was running an HSR42 and a set of stage 2 heads. I really think it's the heads that are better, though, not the carb. In fact, this was my first experience with a CV44 and it wasn't a good one, long story. Give me a Mikuni any day.
No single big thing that's different about Larry's heads, just a bunch of little things. Hopefully a year from now we'll be showing something even better yet.
Here's an overlay of the hp:
and torque:
 |
Jmartz
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 08:27 am: |
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AAron:
Please tell a bit more about your CV44 experience. It a bitch to tune, isn't it? |
Aaron
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 08:55 am: |
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Every time we'd put an air cleaner on it, didn't matter which one, it'd just go lean at mid to high rpms. We even went so far to just put on the spacer and backing plate from a Frontier, no a/c element or cover, and it went lean on us. It was like an extreme version of the Forcewinder/CV issue, but it didn't even require a Forcewinder. Just adding a half inch to the bowl vent length would do it. With no air cleaner, it was perfect.
We finally exchanged the carb for another. The new one worked much better, we were able to get him a pretty flat a/f curve. But we wasted a lot of time on that puppy, not sure we'll put one on another bike. Time is money. |
Jmartz
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 09:49 am: |
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It took me a long time to make mine perform correctly. Same problem, mid range leanness, right there at cruising speeds (circa 3000 rpm), buck, buck, fart, buck. Starting is also affected with frequent explosions at the muffler (backfires). I did get better breathing and enhanced power over the 40 for which I am willing to live with the minor aggravations that it still has. Lifting the needle .050 finally corrected the midrange. Top end is stellar. |
Jim_Witt
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 11:38 am: |
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Any opinions about the CARB information on this site?
Cheers,
-JW:> |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 12:19 pm: |
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The stage-3 heads would certainly help, but I'm surprised you dismiss the CV44 so quickly. It seems like the variable venturi might be beneficial at lower engine speeds.
Now you have me thinking about trying a CV44 and a set of SE cams. See you this summer? |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 12:42 pm: |
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Aaron,
Sounds like either a resonance or a stagnation point is hitting the bowl vent. Most likely a resonance, meaning a similar action to reversion. Would be interesting to nail it down. An appropriate pressure tap placed inside the bowl with a high speed data connection might give you some better insight into what is going on. Such a resonance could be affected by the level in the bowl. I hate to hear you say that you don't want to work on CV44's any more. The CV is such a great carb for helping to maintain optimum A/F over varying conditions. |
Aaron
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 01:05 pm: |
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Well, time is a precious resource. 4 hours dicking around with something that ought to work costs a lot of money. Then there's the fact that jet changes take so much longer.
I've yet to have a bad experience with a Mikuni. I've ridden mine up to 12,000 feet and it was still working fine, after being tuned perfectly for 5500'.
We played with the float level, didn't help a bit.
I'll sell one if a person wants it. But I'll also charge for the dyno time if it gives us trouble. |
Awgrimm
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 04:27 pm: |
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Aaron,
You said "moderate cost streetable packages with good reliability and longevity" when referring to the dyno-ed bike above with 105rwp. Out of curiosity, what is the "moderate cost" of that?
-Brad |
Aaron
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 05:24 pm: |
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Well, let's see ...
a 1250 kit retails for $939.75
a stage 3 job is $1100
Carb, intake manifold, exhaust, figure another $600.
We've got our price list on the web site now.
The thing is, it doesn't require roller rockers, adjustable pushrods, or collapsible covers, and those things add quite a bit of cost. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 01:02 am: |
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What about the ignition module and cams? |
Jim_Witt
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 01:25 am: |
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... and labor? (ducking)
-JW:> |
Aaron
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 08:30 am: |
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Labor? Hah! Who'd pay to do something so simple?
Cams, yup, forgot about those, what do they sell for, $280? A damn lot less than CM580's or Red Shift 585's.
Module schmodule. Yeah, these motors can probably make a little more power with a higher rev limit, but he asked about these charts. |
Jim_Witt
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 12:22 pm: |
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Aaron mentioned
Labor? Hah! Who'd pay to do something so simple?
-Cheers,
-JW:> |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 02:03 pm: |
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Who'd pay to do something so simple?...
ME!
Aaron, are you saying that the bikes producing the charts above are using stock ignition modules? I thought Kevin's at least was using a selectable ignition module like a Dyna 2000.
I keep waiting for SMadd to chime in here. |
Aaron
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 03:34 pm: |
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I know, I was just trying to get a rise out of you.
Kevin had a race kit module, Larry's bike, I'm not positive without going back to check but I believe it's the stock piece. Could be a race kit module though. But you know as well as I do how close the stock and race kit modules are.
The Dyna 2000's have their rev limits in 500rpm increments. |
Pammy
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 05:22 pm: |
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Blake, Smadds was/is stock displacement. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 05:31 pm: |
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Pammy,
He had stock pistons to right? |
Pammy
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 05:51 pm: |
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yessir |
Jim_Witt
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 08:47 pm: |
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Hey Aaron,
You guys should produce a video (CD/DVD or whatever) showing exactly how you install the components (cam, heads whatever) and sell it for an additional charge to those who purchase a package deal and want to do the work themselves. Hell, I'd purchase it even if I wasn't going to do it and be willing to pay extra if I didn't purchase the package deal.
Just a thought,
-JW:> |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 09:19 pm: |
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Ditto what Jim said!
Pammy,
I thought so. Thanks for confirming. |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 11:35 pm: |
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Videos? There's a few books...and you won't need to take the TV/computer and VCR/DVD/CD-ROM into the garage  |
Jim_Witt
| | Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 01:29 am: |
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Rick,
Books are fine but there’s nothing finer than a well put together real time physical coverage of a task and narration topping it off. I recall a few years back buying a machine to sharpen my knives called an Edge Pro. It came with a video showing how to setup the machine, sharpen different types of knives and grinds and techniques he uses. Lincoln does the same thing with some of their welding machines and specific welding techniques training videos. I’d much rather see a video than read a book anyday.
-JW:> |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 02:12 am: |
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If it were easy to learn everything from a book, we'd not need teachers or professors. |
Smadd
| | Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 07:20 am: |
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Here I am! Stock displacement and stock pistons. Last time I rode it, it was running just as strongly as ever. But now, I'm in the midst of this winter storm thing, with no end in sight! Help, Pammy!!! Send up some sunshine!
I also have the HI4E ignition. If I remember correctly, the motor was still making power all the way up to the limiter. It could have made more had we been a bit more adventurous with the limit. After the motor was fully sorted, Pammy set the limit back in an interest to save me a few future bucks! And to tell you the truth, I can't tell the difference on the street (as far as I can remember anyway. Snow, go away!).
Pammy, I won't be making it to Daytona this year. Josh is coming up to visit for the first time! So I've been busy getting ready for him. Don't want to shock him too much! I hope everything is going great for you and Wes.
Oh. One more thing. Yes, I gladly paid the money to have the work done right. I could have bolted the parts together, but it wouldn't have been done right. They tweaked and sorted, again and again until it was as perfect as it could get.
Steve |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 12:14 am: |
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I like books. As far as tackling vehicle repairs I by far prefer books. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 03:08 am: |
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Rick,
Didn't you attend MMI or a similar school? |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 09:53 am: |
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Yeah...I've just started there...I knew the basics...all I'm getting there is some specifics. I'm amazed at how vague and generalized some of the info is, though. There are books that could teach me the same...but you do get some real world experiences thrown in that is probably the most valuable information out of the whole deal IMO.
Still, when it comes to actually working on the things the specs, right tools, and some common sense are all you really need. |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 06:07 pm: |
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Looking at the longer stroke Harley Big Twins...Buells are high performance machines in comparison. A guy pulled next to me the other day on a wild custom chopper and let it loose. Easily the loudest vehicle street vehicle I've come across. Stopped at a light and came to find it's got an S&S 113" motor...making only 105 RWHP. It was cool seeing someone beat on a high end chopper  . My ears rang 'till the next day, though. |
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