| Author | Message | ||
     Doncasto |
I have undertaken a writing project to compile “Conventional Wisdom” as it pertains to Buells in general and the S2 and S3 models specifically. The purpose of this compilation is to build a single source of information for new Buell owners based on the real world experiences of those that have owned Buells for a while. In order to control the expansive nature of these projects, I am not planning to go into the high performance engine possibilities or fuel injection. I am focusing on correcting items that new owners may find unacceptable, upgraded improved Buell parts, recall parts, maintenance tips and after market parts that improve the comfort and handling of the Buells without massive expense. I would appreciate any additions, corrections and/or comments that BWB S2/S3 owners might have. I found that since I am an S3 owner, compiling data on that model was relatively easy. However, since I do not own an S2 I need to recruit information from those that do. I have built two separate web pages, one for the S2 and another for the S3. The S2 compilation was extracted from the S3 version and may have information that does not apply to the S2, and I have used a “REM” for those that I am aware of. Please ping me HERE if you have a CONSTRUCTIVE contribution. Thanks in advance, Don Casto S3 “Conventional Wisdom” S2 “Conventional Wisdom” Edit: I apologize to those of you that have found the links above to be full of HTML garbage and no images when viewed in MSIE. I built the pages in Netscape and there seems to be one of those Microsoft vs. Netscape conflicts that I am at present too inept to resolve. Sorry. | ||
| Peter |
Don, Looks like a good thing. Are you going to do other models later? One thing, I can't get the pictures to show on the S3 site. PPiA | ||
| Spiderman |
Pretty cool  took me a second to figure out that the pics were posted twice. | ||
| Doncasto |
Peter, Arachnidman: I am consulting with persons with higher website skills than my own (close to none) to see if the Netscape vs. MSIE problems can be resolved. Thanks for your patience. The "Conventional Wisdom" stuff is part of a larger set of projects. Once they are done, I look forward to compiling similar information on all the Buelltubes. Thanks, Don | ||
| Spiderman |
Arachnidman LMAO  | ||
| M2me |
Great job, Don! I own a 2001 M2 but a lot of your information applies to my bike just as much as an S2 or S3. Also, I didn't have any trouble with the images. I am using Mozilla, the open source Web browser that's almost identical to Netscape 7. | ||
| Josh |
Don, do you have the info on the fairing brace bulletin/upgrade? | ||
| Doncasto |
Josh: I think I have most of the recall and service bulletins already compiled, including those addressing the fairing brace. Thanks for the heads up nonetheless. John: Thanks for the feedback. Some (most) of the stuff in the "Conventional Wisdom" applies to most of the Tubes. If I had been a little better at planning I would have built one page with supplements for each model. Must be residual synaptic damage from the 70's Tequila Wars. S2 Owners: Does the fancy aluminum oil tank on the S2 have any problems like those of us have with the plastic oil bag? Cap popping off, dirt falling in, etc . . . Does the latest isolator upgrade (with the metal tab on it) work on the S2s with their removable side plates? When replacing front brake pads, what is the preferred brand, part #? What works best with the 2000 year SS rotor? Is there a pad that is the equivalent of the EBC HH available for S2s? Is there a fix, either official or conventional, for the S2T hard bag's tendency to spring open? Is this enough of a problem to require mention in Conventional Wisdom? Is the stock S2 seat as much of a PITA (literally) as the factory S3 seat? If so, what are the best alternatives? Thanks in advance, Don | ||
| Buelliedan |
I can answer the S2 seat question. The stock seat is horrible. You literally are falling down hill into the gas tank and it turns yours nuts into milk duds after a ride. The Corbin is awesome! It has a flatter seating area and is so comfortable!! | ||
| Dave |
Your description Dan about the S2 drawing ya up on the tank/seat horn (?) is my experience too. I wouldn't go as far as calling the seat horrible though...but I've added a Corbin and touring bars.  Don, The latch mechanism is much simpler than the S3 and not as much as a PiTA to remove/replace. Let me know if you need pictures. I have the tank off my S2 right now working on the carb. DAve | ||
| Doncasto |
Thanks Dave and Dan! DAve: Have you had any problems with the bags opening up while under way? If so, how did you fix the problem? Does the less complicated latch configuration lend itself to easier adjustment as a fix? Thanks, Don | ||
| Firemanjim |
Don,stock seat not as bad as some,I have one stocker and one (older)Corbin that was fit to my bod.I have done many miles on both.But I did get one of those Pro-pads and use it on both.Aluminum oil tank is nice,just make sure gasket stays on drain plug or when your Harley/Buell tech tightens it down,the nice stell plug pulls threads out of aluminum tank.(I change my oil,but the S-2 I bought used came this way,a royal PITA.)Its a bit hard to get fill plug out if you have fat fingers.I have used EBC's and Ferrodo's with good luck.I also like the nice rotors I got from Tat,(EBC??)I know there is an upgraded version of the isolator,but I don't remember any metal tabs on last install I did. | ||
| Doncasto |
Thanks Sir Smokeater! Did the EBC HH pads fit your caliper? If not, which EBC did you use? Thanks again, Don | ||
| Firemanjim |
Don,S-2's had no side stand switches,so we experienced none of that lovely series of symptoms.And all S-2 owners should be parking their bikes in gear as added insurance that their bike will not be knocked over by someone unfamiliar with S-2's. | ||
| Henrik |
S3 quirk: I had the main power lead, going from from the main breaker to the starter motor, break within the ring connector at the starter motor. All of a sudden the tach started dancing, and shortly after the bike just quit - nothing worked. I found the break after some jiggling of wires. The road-side fix was a piece of solid installation wire with one end made into an eyelet to fit onto the starter motor. The other end was connected to the original wire sans ring connector using a wire nut. Turned out the wiring harness was pulled a tad too tight and put strain on the wire. Keep in mind that the starter motor takes a 12mm wrench. S2 questions: Oil tank: as Jim mentions, it's a tight fit to get a hold on the filler cap. I haven't had it pop off ... yet  The drain plug is tricky to get to stay leak-free. I've tried a bunch of different gaskets, and still have a drip. VST thread compound seems to help a bit. Isolator upgrade: will not fit the S2. Some have mentioned that with some modification it might, but I haven't heard of anyone actually doing it. However, the S2 doesn't seem to rip the isolators, so it may not be an issue. Front brake: be careful when you tighten the skinny bolt that braces the middle of the caliper and also retains the brake pads. It's only threaded into soft aluminum and will strip easily (don't ask). Fortunately you can replace it with a longer bolt and a nut on the inside. Front brake pads: Ferrodo, EBC Green and Lyndall Racing Brakes (LRB) makes replacement pads. Ferrodo are hard to get (haven't tried them). EBC Green works reasonably well on the stock cast iron rotor (or aftermarket cast iron I'd think), but creates quite a bit of brake dust, which will dirty up the entire right side of your bike. With the Y2K SS rotor, the EBC pads are worthless. I haven't had time to really try out the LRB pads with the SS rotor, but from my short experience I think I'd like more bite than they provide. Others have reported great results with these pads, so I may get there with some sanding and better break-in. I haven't been able to get a set of Ferrodo pads to try with the new rotor. Hard Bags: I've toured a bit with the stock hard bags with the shallow lids, and haven't had any problems with them. I've now changed over to S3 bags which works ok. The factory brackets for this needs some attention when installing, otherwise the rear turn signals will tear out of the tail section. I haven't tried this set-up with the deep lids yet. Stock Seat: works fine for me. I've done 4-500 mile days and will just toward the end of the day feel like I'm being split up the middle The Corbin seat I have for my S3 however is the worst POS and will have me in agony within 50 miles - not to mention that it took several trips back to Corbin, on my dime, to get it made how I'd originally ordered it and get it to actually fit on the bike. I will for that reason alone never buy Corbin again, and will warn against any assumption of quality of their product. If you can't test before buying, buyer beware. I have however had very good luck modifying stock seats with an electrical carving knife, drum sander on an electrical drill and other implements of destruction, and in the process installing a ProPad. On a 1999 S3 seat with ProPad, I've done 800 mile days with no discomfort at all (from the seat at least ) Best modification ever is heated grips and a plug for heated clothing. I've used Impex Grip Heaters (about $30 I think) and been very happy with them. After a couple of seasons the right grip will likely break a wire, but that can be soldered back on the heating element for at least another season of use. The snowmobile grip heaters that go into the bars seem like an even better idea, but since I'm running Throttlemeister barends, these will not work for me. Henrik | ||
| Doncasto |
Sir Dr. Henrick: Thanks for the input! I had the same thing happen to the breaker to starter lead, and ended up with an "on the road" fix using barbed wire, electrical tape and puncture wound care. I agree about the heated grips, too! Although I learned last month that it is indeed possible to have warm palms and frozen knuckles simultaneously. I saw snow mobile grip covers in a UJM store for the first time last week. They look as though the will probably do some serious flapping at freeway speeds, but should resolve the frozen knuckle issue. They are on my "to be purchased eventually" list. Thanks again, Don | ||
| Doncasto |
Thanks to everyone who contributed their knowledge to my project! I have uploaded an edited/improved version of the S2 Conventional Wisdom HERE I will continue to add/edit/correct the page as more input arrives. On a related project . . . I need the loan of an 1995/1996 S2 S2T Parts Catolog and an owner's manual for either/both 1995/1996 S2/S2T. If you can help me out, ping me HERE Thanks again and in advance, Don | ||
| Josh |
Hey Don, you ought to ask Aaron about his kick stand mods. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Henrik, The main-power-lead-to-the-battery-breaking thing isn't just a S3 quirk. I had the exact same thing happen on my 2K M2. Same fix got me back on the road. Took longer to find a decent chunk of stranded wire than to do the fix. Brad | ||
| Buellish |
Don, I installed a left side,side plate that uses the X1 side stand.And makes my S2 lean at a more conventional angle. This side plate came from Jim Gilbert at Gilberts HD.800-947-4035 ext.14 The left side sells for $250 and a matching right side plate is $150.They have a machined aluminum finish. Mike '96 S2T '95 S2 | ||
| Henrik |
Buellish: do you have pictures of that side plate and possibly of the new lean angle? Which shock are you running? Henrik | ||
| Doncasto |
Mike: Thanks for the information! I would like to use it in the compilation if, as Henrik already requested, I could get some photos and details. Ping me HERE. Thanks again, Don | ||
| Ferris |
Fidel, i feel a little guilty for not yet chiming in, things have been a little hectic lately is my only semi-valid excuse. JB2 should/would/could help you out with "I need the loan of an 1995/1996 S2 S2T Parts Catolog and an owner's manual for either/both 1995/1996 S2/S2T", as he's got 'em both. are you up to speed on the failures of the early S2T bars? the factory S2 saddlebags and hardware are crap with a capital "S". the only fix is to do what i did -- sell them. the backside of the threaded holes that the sideplate bolts screw into are open to the elements, making for bad ju-ju and seized bolts at best, busted knuckles, serious headache, and a trip to the ER at worst. the factory plastic/c-f airbox back-plate warps and cracks over time, possibly allowing un-filtered air to menace your engine. intake seals? REPLACE THEM ANNUALLY!!! (this advice applies to ALL boob-tubers.) the BEST looking Buell of all time (well, besides Erik...)? the Buell S2 Thunderbolt :-) FB | ||
| Doncasto |
Sir Ferris! I am gratified and humbled in being the recipient of your sage and well crafted advice! As much as it would be pleasure to contact Sir Bantz about a contribution to the effort, I believe at this point that other Buellists have already stepped up in the catalog/manual department. (Thanks, Tom and Todd) I have made note of handlebar recall and other service bulletins in another part of the project. I was hoping that maybe the S2T bags were better than what I have come to expect from those on my S3T - your comment makes that hope seem foolish. I did note the problems with the intake seals in the "Conventional Wisdom", although may have been too easy by calling for "periodic replacement" rather than yearly replacement. The sideplate screw corrosion and backing plate failures will be noted in the next edit. Do you have any advice as to how the corrosion/cracking can be prevented or should it just be something all S2 owners should be prepared to look for and deal with on a replacement basis? Good to hear from you, JH! Give my best to Fearless, tell her the suck up she has never met says hello. Buellistically, Don | ||
| Firemanjim |
Don,the original carb backing plate was fiberglass and could only take a few install/uninstalls until it gave up around the carb screws.Newer style was ABS(?) and lasted a little longer.One other electrical gremlin to watch for(make that 2)there are a couple of circuit breakers down near the battery that give out due to moisture/corrosion/vibration.I had one go out in the middle of N Mexico,acted like a dropped cylinder.Cheap at any auto parts store,consider siliconing them.Second,carry a spare timing cup as I have gone through 2 of them at about 30,000 mile intervals.(Ferris should remember these) | ||
| Ferris |
Don, the book says to loctite the sideplate bolts in, which IMO is overkill -- trust me, the things will NEVER want to come out once you torque 'em in. seal the backside of the threaded holes with something, anything, to prevent moisture from entering and starting the electrolysis process. the fix for the airbox backing plate is to replace with something better -- the stock piece will, in short order, be good for conversation purposes only. the S2 saddlebags are kindergarten-level engineering at it's worst. crap is the kindest thing i can say. it's plenty embarrassing to have your passenger holding the lids closed while tooling down the freeway, or pulling up in front of a couple dozen Hooligans with bungee cords lashing the damn things shut. and the factory bracketry for mine was welded up about 14 degrees out-of-true, making installation one of those headache/ER things i mentioned above. bought the bag set new from BMC for $800 when i bought my S2, about $701 too much. re: the intake seals, i can't emphasize this enough: REPLACE THEM ANNUALLY! melted pistons can be the result of running on a failed seal, and it's not pretty. the circuit breaker panel that FMJ mentions is located on the bulkhead behind the rear jug behind the battery, pitifully exposed to the elements, and the breakers do NOT come sealed from whatever off-shore sweatshop that makes them. in spite of all this, i LOVE my S2, might even get another one... FB | ||
| S320002 |
Don, These comments apply to my 1997 S3 as I have known it. The sealing bead around the original S3 "bread box" sucked. I still have a some material that works better if someone needs it. The 1997 front fairing was different. No edge bead and different inside finish. The 1997 S3 rear fender/plate mount assembly would give up and crack at almost 8,000 miles exactly. The tank decals were much more aesthetically pleasing but would eventually blister. Mine lasted over four years. Even with the blisters I prefer them to the "Leggo Blocks" that replaced them. If the speedometer cable is not routed correctly it will eventually fail. The old seat fits my butt and inseam (32" better than the new one. It kept me going for 800 miles in one day. It also got me from Willow Springs to Santa Clara in just over four hours (yes I was speeding ALOT). The 1997 S3 was the only one with a "bronze" frame. I think the S3T was black/gray. The original rear shock was way better looking and mine worked great after Lindeman Engineering reworked it. Buell took it for the recall.:-( If the high beam indicator bulb leads short it will blow the headlight fuse when you switch to highbeams. That could leave a mark! The original kickstand safety switch would malfunction. The recall switch should have been inverted from its designed position so it could be adjusted to a longer length if needed (I needed it). The cast aluminum shifting linkage worked as well and lasted longer than the chromed steel and welded one used on the S1. (Experience) The original "spongey" foot pegs sucked but could be easily replaced by trimmed Sportster passenger pegs or 2000 X1 spring loaded pegs. The front brake light switch didn't always work but was easily fixable (if you knew it wasn't working). Bob White could give you an additional 15 HP in the midrange just by adding a V&H muffler, rejetting and tweeking the timing (top end only went up 2 HP but I didn't care). The Cali evap canister takes about 20 minutes to remove and reroute. If your remove the stock exhaust heat shield and replace it with the smallest one that will keep your knee off the pipe it will keep your leg cooler. There is probably more but I have to stop now. What do I think of my '97 S3? I LOVE IT! Greg | ||
| Buellish |
Henrik and Don, I plan on taking photos of the 95' which has the stock side stand and the 96' which got the new side plates,side by side.I have a new digital camera,but have yet to get a handle on how to make my shots small enough to post and e-mail. Sounds like a project for this weekend. Mike | ||
| Henrik |
Mike: there are instructions and links to compression software in the picture section of the site. Henrik | ||
| Josh |
>intake seals? REPLACE THEM ANNUALLY!!! (this advice applies to ALL boob-tubers.) How about the latest version of the seals? I thought they redesigned them a year or two ago (which is what I've been running the last 25000miles or so on my S3) |
