| Author | Message | ||
     Richieg150 |
Was at a local HD dealer today,and there were 2 guys in their mid 20's looking at the XB9R.They were sitting on the bike very interested in buying one,by the way this would be both of their first bike!I was standing there listening to this salesman telling these guys that if they arent planning to keep this bike for 5-7 years dont buy it.Then he proceeded to tell then that they will eventually get tired of this bike and want to buy a regular Harley!So,save time and money and just buy a REGULAR HD now.Now,being the quiet shy individual I am,I couldnt let that slip by without a wee bit of input!I told them of my M2,the guys Ive met riding, our bikes,and that I dont plan on getting ride of mine for a REGULAR HARLEY!I then told the salesman that thats the problem with them having the Buells,they dont try to sell them!I told the salesman that he and HD just dont get it,that a guy looking to buy a Buell,isnt your TYPICAL HARLEY RIDER-----we are DIFFERENT IN EVERY SENSE!He kinda had the look on his face like the wheels may be tuning but nobody is home!At that point he didnt say a word,I did my best to encourage them to buy the bike,telling them of all the positive things I could.Ive heard about this happening,and have now witnessed it for myself!If the salesman at the dealers dont even try to sell the Buell,sure its going to look like there not selling,DUH!Why does he want to sell them a Buell,with hardley any mark up,when he can sell them the bike they REALLY want,for alot more!Its discouraging,its like being shot in the foot by one of you own! | ||
| Court |
The scenario you describe had existed since 1994. There has been an ebb and flow of better and worse. At the moment, the tide seems to be going out. I've traveled to over 100 dealers and had the opportunity to visit with them. I've seen "worse" dealers improve (Dudley Perkins), I've seen the best erode and I've watched them go full cycle (Latus - Portland - Top 10 - next to the Buell basement - now doing well). The Buell "success challenge", as well as the necessary means and methods, are outside the scope of the required skills that a great Harley-Davidson dealer would generally have. Being a great HD dealer does not imply one is, by extension, a great Buell dealer. Buell is aware of the problem and has been working on it since 1995. I fear that as long as Harley-Davidson dealer staff is the exclusive domain of the solution, that the solution will likely be composed of tactics and strategies from the Harley-Davidson playbook and prove woefully inappropriate and ineffective with regard to Buell. As an example, a couple years ago, the stated goal of the Buell dealer fellow was to add something like 300+ dealers. This was the hammer they’d always driven the HD nail with. Quantity of dealers was the only bug on the radar screen. The strategy and “action plan”, after talking to dealers, was as unclear and misdirected as the stated goal. Any wonder that a Holiday Rambler guy who'd not ridden a sportbike and didn't know a "sweeper" wasn't a broom, would devise, promote and attempt to execute a plan that more closely resembled a motor home than a motorcycle? It's no surprise to me that the HD marketing people have attempted to drive a Buell nail with a Harley hammer. In the world of behavioral science, it's what's called "negative transfer of knowledge". This occurs when something you know, or a skilled you’ve acquired, serves to work against performing a new task. The best example, and I've told this to people from HD for years, is the USMC marksmanship training. Hardest person to train is someone who already "knows how to shoot". Another negative factor is that Harley-Davidson dealers, to their credit, exhibit the very same tenacious independence that saved them during HD's lean years. The "take 3 more Buells or run the risk of having your 2003 allocation decreased" is bad business; this group doesn’t take threats well. Again, HD has properly used this tool in other contexts. It's there in the playbook, but no one had the experience to know that the quick kick can be a nifty tactic in football but guess what happens when the Celtics Forward quickly kicks the ball to the other end of the court? In my experience, the good folks (and they are) at Harley-Davidson will read all my words as senseless ranting and interpret them as an insult. They are not; they are a plea for them to improve. It'll be better for them, better for Buell and the ultimate win-win scenario. The simple fact of the matter is that there is a broader market in the motorcycle business than cruisers and capturing that expanded market requires expanded skills. I'll say, for the umpteenth time, if a Harley-Davidson owner won a Buell in a contest, they would likely sell it. If I won a Softail in a contest, I'd sell it. To understand what I am saying you have to understand that statement. I'd sell the Harley, not because it's not the greatest cruiser in the world, it is! I'd sell it because it's not MY style. Those who can't read that statement without interpreting it as a "slam to HD" are incapable of effectively representing Buell Motorcycles. The dealer meeting is currently underway and there appears to be a renewed effort to "fire up" Buell dealers. The last time the scenario being used this year (the "poster boy dealer" ) was in San Antonio where the room lights were darkened and splashy video (produced by Harleywood) featuring 3 Buell dealers recanting "how we did it" dialogues. I've watched what the staff at Harley-Davidson struggle with the Buell challenge. I have a deep and abiding interest in the challenge and pray they see the light. The are answers and there is a strategy that will work great for Buell and that will serve the interests of Harley-Davidson, their shareholders and their dealers. Court | ||
| Dynarider |
Court, I wonder how many people are like myself & own both a Harley & a Buell? I appreciate just about anything on 2 wheels. Doesnt matter what it is, I will ride it. My wife used to laugh her ass off when I would fire up my daughters 1983 suzuki FA50 moped & just go for a quick blast around the neighborhood. I am neither anti nor pro Buell. Same goes for Harley. I am simply pro bike. If it has 2 wheels its all good. If it runs anyways. | ||
| Court |
>>>I wonder how many people are like myself & own both a Harley & a Buell? Many In 1996 my garage included: Harley Z50 Cushman 711 Highlander XR-1000 XLCR Buell RS-1200 Buell S-2 Buell S-1 XL883 FLHTC Low Rider Custom XL250R XR80 KTM 250MX The Cushman remains my favorite, largely due to sentimental reasons. The Low Rider was one of the most impressive in terms of sheer performance, the S-1 taught me most about riding a motorcycle, the KTM was WAY beyond my abilites, the XL250R was the cheapest ($1), the FLH made me feel most like a rebel, heading down the road listening to music, the XR likely had the least ACTUAL performance but still holds a special place in my heart simply for the sound it made at 6am on a Sunday morning as it reeverberated between concrete barrier walls on I-70. | ||
| Dave |
I like getting Jim, the owner of the local IGA, when I go there to buy lunch meat. When Jim works the counter and I tell him I want one pound of that delicious honey ham sliced thin, he'll throw a bunch on the scale...add more...add a bit more...till he hits one pound. All is good. He wants to make sure I get my one pound worth...he's generous. Now his new hire Byron, has a different approach. I asked him for one pound of snappy pepper smoked turkey. He'll always place a portion on the scale, take away some...then carefully remove more till he gets to one pound. I'm thinking he's pretty stingy and petty. The reality is that the approach was different but results were the same. Only my opinion/view of them differs. Court wrote: "...The "take 3 more Buells or run the risk of having your 2003 allocation decreased" is bad business; this group doesn’t take threats well....." A better approach would be simply converting a demand into an incentive. For every 3 Buells sold, you get an extra HD FL-ABCDEFG. I've seen the same anti or apathetic view of Buell at HD & Buell...I mean 'Harley-Davidson oh and Buell' dealerships. I won't help them make a sale and inject myself into a salesman's conversation. Let 'em bleat and run to the HD call. DAve ...sold my XR1000 in '02 and bought 2 more Buells...I had HD dealerships suggest I had a Honda when trying to get parts for my XR1000. | ||
| Tripper |
Rich; good for you. And thanx to Court for expanding on it. It is a sad situation, but on the other hand I visited Earl Small's and Atlanta HD yesterday and the parts people didn't snicker or moan, and the sales people were enthusiastic about the XB's. There is some light, walk toward it. Buy from the good ones. Or you can do like KCBill and stake out the bad ones parking lot, intercept Buellers heading in, tell them they don't want to be here. Funny way to meet a guy, but he was right. I'll bet Court knows where I was when this occured. | ||
| Richieg150 |
Quote:Those who cant read that statement without interpreting it as a slam to HD,are incapable of effectively representing Buell motorcycles. Court,you hit the nail on the head with that statement!  | ||
| Buckinfubba |
man everyone has said a mouthful of exactly right. I am a tech at tilleys hd buell. I've been there for a year now and it is slowly turning around in part because of me. I am not braging but the truth is this. Harley salesman generally don't know jack about sportbikes period. This whole year that I have been there I have literally sold every buell that needed to be sold. What I mean by that is that somebody had not made up there mind about the bike and needed to be sold. This is sad that the salesman can't answer questions about a product that they sell. They have no enthusiasm for it and you can't sell without enthusiasm period. They walk the customer back to me and either I get the bike sold or I don't . I am honest with the customer, if this is not the bike for them it just ain't . The truth is buell is not for everyone. Just as neither is honda ,harley ect... we now have a demo of the xb9r so that helps as we all know a ride on a buell can help people get a hold of it. Now that I have rambeled on about this our dealership is getting better because I have got them a little more interested in these bikes and what the feelin is to ride them. I am still trying to get one of the salesman to come out with me on a ride so he can have first hand knowledge of what it feels like to ride a sportbike and especially a Buell. That is one of the main problems most of these alledged Buell salesman have never really rode on one. But as has been said harley can't market them correctly because they don't get it. As they say "if I have to explain you just don't get it". Well we are explaining to them and guess what....well you know the answer. What most dealers need to do if they are serious about getting buells on the road is tohire somebody who likes and rides a buell and also is a sportbike enthusiast and just a two wheeled enthusiast, not just a harley guy. Let that person take the ball and run with it. Enthusiasm goes a long way in the game of sales. I believe Buell has come up with a really good bike in the XB series and reliable to and way too much fun to ride to be ignored. We know who the good dealers are and we know why it is a very simple method. But as long as the mother hen keeps sitting on her babies it is going to be a long row to hoe. I've said my 5 cents worth now I am waiting on my change. seesya bubba | ||
| Dave |
Brian (buckinfubba) like Frank (cyclone1) is another one of the few Buellers in the world of HD/Buell dealerships that is making a difference. My Dad ('99 Yellow Blast) relayed to me the same story Brian just captured of how he was taken back to talk with Brian by one of the folks out front. Brian's enthusiasm has my Dad willing to travel 170 miles to talk Buell, get parts, and even ride with other Buellers. He's back on a bike after about a 20+ year hiatus. The impact! I see the signs that my Dad (60+) has an unannounced urge to buy a 1200cc Buell. Something about last fall's Deal Gap experience, Tilley's, and the sweet price of the used S2s and S3s. DAve | ||
| Chainsaw |
Quick Fix: Let the salesmen ride them! The guy I bought my Harley & Buell from had never been on the XB. I bought their second one in June 02, I didn't expect the guy would be real knowledgeable on the brand new Buells, outside of the numbers on paper. After I clicked off the first 500 miles of the break in, I brought my XB back and let him take it for a spin (he went about 8 miles). The shit-eatin grin on this Harley salesman's face said it all. He had seen the light! | ||
| Court |
>>>Court,you hit the nail on the head with that statement! Yes. As true today as it was in 1995 when I persoanlly visited over 60 dealerships. >>>I'll bet Court knows where I was when this occured. Not WORTH taking a guess. >>>Quick Fix: Let the salesmen ride them! Nice try, been done, doesn't work. In 1998 all the Harley-Davidson DM's were "required" to take a Buell S1WL. There were good AND not so good experiences. The following year, one of the Buell BZM's, with nearly no riding experience, decides to "teach Tim Carrithers a lesson" on a twisty road new Bryce Canyon. The HD rep hid the bike, but I made a midnight flash photo covert mission to photograph what an X1 shot off a cliff looks like. If it sounds like I am a bit cynical, I am. I've been railroaded and insulted (Christmas Eve 1995 "a lunatic from Topeka" ) by some folks that are incompetent. I'm willing to help, unwilling to take that type of abuse any longer being told I am nuts for suggesting that HD dealers don't know how to sell Buell. Key point is "don't know", I never said "can't learn". They are EXCELLENT dealerships that simply MUST BE TAUGHT how to skin a cat a bit differently. Common sense must be. Court | ||
| Rick_A |
It doesn't make sense that some dealers steer people looking at Buells towards Harleys. Obviously, if they're looking at Buells to begin with then they've got a good idea of what they want in a bike. Why loose those sales? The only good Buell salesmen I've come across are ones who own and ride them. | ||
| Spiderman |
RichieG Way to go!!! I caught salesmen doing that before and let them know. I have changed many minds at my shop a few of the people that have worked at my shop, like the A typical Harley rider as so many of you have put it, was like I'm to old, they are for young people etc, etc. Then he met our BRAG group and seen that one of our memebers was around his age. He then was like wow ok. Then he met a few oher Buellers from the area that were 40 and over. Then he changed his mind and let me tell him all about Buell's. Not every dealer is fortunate to have a dedicated Buell rider though. So stop out oppression where you see it  | ||
| Richieg150 |
Spiderman,your comment reminds me of a story.There were five of us rideing thru Nebraska on our way to Lincoln.We were stopped by the highway patrole,for traveling alittle to fast .The guy started hollering at us on what our dam hurry was,then we took off our full faces helmets!He got this grin on his face,and his demeanor changed like night and day!He and the other patrol car that pulled up started asking us questions about our bikes.The one officer asked me if they were fast,I smiled and said naw,they run 80 or so!We were issued tickets for 81 in a 75.They told us they had been following us with aircraft for over 8 miles,and a times we were going a wee bit faster than that I was the youngest of us Buell riders that day at 44,the only one with not much,I say not much,gray hair.Most of the Bueller I ride with are guys in their 40's.Our beloved Buells arent just for the young and dumb and full of hmmmm,its for us old guys lol! | ||
| Spiderman |
lol rock on | ||
| Cyclone1 |
I believe it was about a couple years ago, right around the time that the Blast came out...We were in back, about 4 of us, huddled around a Buell bike catalog. I remember distinctly what was said. One of the techs said:"I don't see how anyone would buy a Buell. They're slow, air-cooled pieces of sh!t, and they just cannot compete with a real-world performance motorcycle." A year later, the same guy says..."If I'd buy one, it would be an M2." The next year it was:"I'm gonna go pick up my M2 on Saturday, wanna go?" It's funny how people make complete circles sometimes. This guy loves it to death now..call it a success story of sorts. I too, am trying my best to convert, and "enlighten" the ignorant. It is defenitely an up-hill battle, but I think it can be done. As far as salesmen go, I think they would do their damndest to sell them. They're not against Buells, although all we sell right now are Blasts (and those are not selling very good in our area). I was talking to one of the owners the other day, and she's afraid of carrying Buells, because they told her at the time for the first Blasts, that they were shipping X amount of Blasts, and sent about 6 more than was agreed on. Then, with the XB they were wanting us to take 17 units within a short period of time, I seen the paperwork on it. This was when they were freshly announced, and noone knew how bad the "recall issues" were going to be, and how reliable they were. Point is, Harley/Buell can't cram a sh!itload of bikes down a dealer's throat, right off the bat. Like our owner, they freak out, and don't want ANYTHING to do with them at all. Now don't anybody get me wrong. I will be ABSOLUTELY THRILLED when it comes time to be setting up brand new, shiny XB's. I'm assuming we will be forced to take on the rest of the Buells (FINALLY), once we build our other store. I can't wait for that day...but like H-D motor company, many dealerships that have been around for 30+ years are "very" conservative when it comes to new stuff. It's like the tech I was talking about earlier, the rest of the "ignorants" will come around, and all will work out in the end  Frank | ||
| Shazam |
Richie, First time I saw one of you grey hairs do a wheelie, I about pissed my pants....I think it was Tripper.... I knew I had found the right people. what a crew! Not to tangent here.... the dealers who will do well with this bike line are the ones who know how to manage their resources...and can place the enthusiastic (knowledgable) individuals in front of the customer. | ||
| Snowdave |
Dealers are critical. I purchased my first Buell in Texas, but if it had not been for an awesome salesman, I surely would have bought a Ducati. Then I move to Wisconsin only to find that my local HD dealer dropped Buell, the closest Buell dealer isn't worth crap (in spite of racing them), and the one good dealer I found has lost there ace Buell salesman. Not to mention that I live closer to the factory than any of these dealers. So, screw the dealers, now it's ebay and internet shopping for me (where I bought my 2nd Buell and over 95% of my parts). If only I had the resources to open my own shop! | ||
| Bomber |
nothing at all to argue with here . . .. I've worked in companies that had dealer networks, and those folks are critical to the success of the manufacturer . . . .but, the reverse is not always true (see Court's remarks about HD dealers surviving the dim times w/out much to cheer about coming out of Milwaukee) . . . .. the long and the short of it is no dealers gonna change unless they are convinced it's in their best interest . . .there are enough good dealership out there to show the way, but the sad part is that those good dealership's goodness seems to rest on the shoulders of one or two people in the shop, and those folks are, mostly, not the owners . . . . . when there's enough money to be made, more dealers will sing along (it would be interesting to know how much revenue is generated by a guy like Daves in Iowa or Spidey in Michigan {not lsighting anyone, those guys come to mind immeditaely is all}) . . . of course, a great national network would eat inot their livings, so I'm sure they're not saying a thing (I sure wouldn't) any data on how a decent BRAG chapter can help a dealership see the light? | ||
| Mikej |
"I am still trying to get one of the salesman to come out with me on a ride..." I think you just found a problem. If you have to "try" to get a salesman to go for a ride then I think you don't have a motorcycle salesman, I think you have a salescritter there. Every decent salesman/saleswoman/sales-representative I've met or known will immediately jump at any opportunity to ride or drive anything they are selling, regardless of what it is. | ||
| Dynarider |
John, I dont know if a Brag chapter can help a dealership see the light. Hell I know even a decent HOG chapter cant do that. Dealers are in it for 1 thing & thats the $$$. They arent there to sponsor a Barg or HOG chapter unless they see a potential for more $$$ in his pocket. I know a lady who shall remain nameless. Anyways she was volunteering her time to help out a local dealership with his annual open house. Just so happens she had a FXD that was for sale. She had it parked in the lot with everyone elses bike who had also graciously volunteered their time to help this dealership out. She was told by the dealership to remove her bike from his premises because she had a for sale sign on it & it would affect his sales. This woman is married to the chapter director of a local HOF group & has since bought 2 bikes, a Full dresser & a Roadglide..neither of which were purchased from the dealership of which she is a member. The owner screwed himself out of 2 big ticket sales because he chose to be a prick that day. | ||
| Dynarider |
BTW, it was not a salesman who told her to move the bike, it was the owner. I was there & witnessed the whole ordeal. Cut off your nose to spite your face. | ||
| Mikej |
It's kind of funny, some dealerships will let you post your bike for sale on their in-house bulletin board, and some won't even let you park in their parking lot with a sign on your bike. | ||
| Bomber |
Dyna . . . you're right, I think that dealer was pretty short-sighted, but, at the end of the day, it's his (or her) candy store, and can run it the way they want . . .. you're right again, the dealers are in business, no doubt . . . .just like you and I are (at least I would be doing something else with my time if I wasn't paid (grin)) . . . . some dealers seem to love the sport more than the business, some the other way, but they all have to make a profit if they want to be there next year business people tend to be concervative, and to stick to what's worked in the past . . . I, for one, can't blame them, but do wish some would be more willing to try new things . . . . | ||
| Dynarider |
Sure they can run the business as they see fit. But to piss off a client who has purchased bikes in the past from you? Someone looking to buy a used FXD for $7000 is not stealing any money out of the dealers hands. Hmmm, lets see here $7000 for this nice bike or perhaps I will just go inside & blow $17,000. And if the dealer would have just left her alone he would have made 2 sales instead of none. So ya I guess having her bike for sale did cost him..idiot. | ||
| Bomber |
course, the other side of that coin is, what the heck was she thinkin, trying to sell her scoot in front of a business that sells scoots for a living . . .. pretty, er, narrow focused of her . . .. if I was the owner, I'da asked that she remove the sign too . . . .. | ||
| Mikej |
'cept you can go to almost any dealership in this region, for almost any brand, and at some point during the day find a customer bike with a forsale sign on it. Sort of like me driving into a car dealership in my used rust bucket with a forsale sign in the window. I've never had a business tell me to leave their parking lot because of a forsale sign on my car/truck/bike. Of course I don't know the dealership you two are speaking of, and I don't know the specific particulars of that day's events, so ignore this posting. I've got a two-sided dime at home someplace. | ||
| Dynarider |
Its more the fact that this person was there doing this dealer a favor by working for his open house. She is very well known & liked throughout the dealership & the HOG chapter & her bike was posing no credible threat at all to his business. I liken it to this, if I was selling a car from my house & you came over to help me out with some work on my house & you had a for sale sign on your vehicle, should I ask you to take it out? | ||
| Bomber |
yeah, well . . .you're arguing pretty good for an asleep person, Dyna (grin) . . . . if you DID ask me to, I'd do it, cause I'm a guest, doncha know . .. . course, I likely wouldn't help you out much in the future . . . it's a difficulty, in that HOG and BRAG (I believe) give many rider's a close feeling to their dealerships, and some come to view them as clubhouses . . . . and partially forget that they're businesses . . . I don't know this dealership, nor the woman, and take your story at face value, Greg (as I do with most all you tell me) . . . . lots of room for imporvement, to quote my boss | ||
| Tripper |
Cyclone1 wrote: "I believe it was about a couple years ago, right around the time that the Blast came out...We were in back, about 4 of us, huddled around a Buell bike catalog. I remember distinctly what was said. One of the techs said:"I don't see how anyone would buy a Buell. They're slow, air-cooled pieces of sh!t, and they just cannot compete with a real-world performance motorcycle." A year later, the same guy says..."If I'd buy one, it would be an M2." The next year it was:"I'm gonna go pick up my M2 on Saturday, wanna go?" It's funny how people make complete circles sometimes. This guy loves it to death now..call it a success story of sorts." Autobiographical? |
