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Sportsman
| | Posted on Monday, January 20, 2003 - 07:58 pm: | 
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Even in the ambulance he had to feel like an idiot. |
S320002
| | Posted on Monday, January 20, 2003 - 08:13 pm: |
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Court,
Your princely deed shall not go unrewarded. The time and place may never be known.
G;-) |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, January 20, 2003 - 11:12 pm: |
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JQ,
<sigh>
"I'll be at the FUSA races, not the AMA races. Will any of you be there?"
I'll be racing. Will you?
"At the club level, they are allowed displacement breaks because otherwise they would be uncompetitive. Simple as that."
Let me be sure to understand you on this. You perceive the FUSA National series and the CCS ROC as mere "club" races? 
As to the displacement "breaks." Why do you think class rules are formulated in the first place José? Is it to help maintain a level playing field among different configurations of motorcycles? DUH!
"...otherwise they would be uncompetitive."
You are 100% correct in that statement. How would the 4-strokes in Moto GP fare if not allowed a displacement break? Answer... They would be "uncompetitive. Simple as that"  Two different configurations of engine, two different displacement limits. Fair and equitable competition. Why is that principle so difficult for you to understand?
"However if you want to race at the AMA or WSBK level, there are several pesky "homologation" rules that a manufacturer has to meet before they can race, and every one of them has met them one way or another."
Actually José, that depends on the class you are talking about. Does AMA Formula Extreme impose such strict requirements as seen in SS and SB? And contrary to your belief, MOST of the club racing series also require bikes to be commercially available models designed, manufactured and offered via retail sale for street use. There is no difference in that respect. Class rules simply address the modifications that are allowed and displacement limits imposed for the sake of fair competition within each class.
"If Buell wants to race in the AMA with their current bikes, should we exempt them from the rules that everybody else has to follow?"
No, that would be stupid. Everyone needs to follow the same rules, like they do in CCS and FUSA. Why not let the Duc 748/749 and the Buell twins into the AMA SS class? Answer... the AMA Pro Racing's Jap daddies would not like that. Pretty simple isn't it?.
"Should they get a break because they are American?"
The word "American" appears no where in my copy of the displacement limit class rules for FUSA or CCS. By allowing liquid cooling, overhead cams, and four cylinders AMA Pro Racing BLATANTLY favors the models of motorcycles produced in Japan. Why do you not see the favoritism in the current AMA SBK and SS class rules? Answer... You have swallowed the reasoning that "only displacement counts." That is unfortunate.
Blake is a great guy, you should send him (not and Peter!) your money
"For the street, if Buell wants to sell a bigger bore 1350cc XL based bike which wouldn't comply with EPA drive by noise limits, should we get Congress to tell the EPA to exempt Buell from the rules that everybody else has to follow. Should they get a break because they are American?"
WTF are you are you talking about now? The EPA? Running a race bike on the street?
"If it was not for the EPA or the AMA or the FIM, boy, Buell would have put out a World Beater by now, eh?"
You sure know how to totally spin the discussion out into left field. Where were we talking about Buell fielding a world beater? I thougt we were talking about Buell sponsoring the FUSA and other racing series, AMA Pro Racing's sabotage of Pro Thunder, the exclusion of Buell and Ducati motorcycles from AMA Supersport.
"It's a conspiracy, right?"
Call it what you like as you are licking the boots of your Jap daddies along with your AMA Pro Racing friends. This is America. An American sportbike should be allowed to race in an American Motorcycle Association affiliated racing series! No "special" rules, just let the Buell twins and Duc 748/749's into AMA Supersport racing. Set the displacement limits for different engine configurations to foster fair and equitable competition. Why not do that José? Buells are heavier and less powerful than all the Jap Supersport repliracers. Why not let them race in the Supersport class like FUSA and CCS do? Answer... AMA Pro Racing cannot bear to upset their Jap daddies. If you have another reason, I'd like to hear it.
Brand loyalty has its limits, but you all are blind. Go to a track and try to make your case, you'll be laughed out of the paddock."
I'd like to see my favorite "brand" allowed to race in one of the most popular moto road racing series in America. José, it just so happens that I WAS at the track yesterday talking to some of my fellow CMRA racers. They had absolutely no problem with allowing Buells to race in AMA Supersport. In fact they thought it would be totally cool if the Duc 748/749 and the Buell twins were allowed to compete in AMA Supersport like they are in the FUSA Sportbike and CCS middle weight Supersport classes. Why are you opposed to that José? Maybe you are the one having trouble seeing reality.
I also asked them what they thought about AMA Pro Racing. My sense of decency prevents me from quoting the exact words of their answers. Suffice it to say, they agreed 100% with my point of view and expressed so in VERY strong language. Why would they be so upset? Because privateers don't stand a chance. The rules are entirely skewed in favor of the big dollar factory teams.
Factory superbikes and supersport bikes are putting out HUGE horsepower far in excess of anything any retail factory kit will produce. Can we buy the parts that Nicky Hayden or Colin Edwards had in their RC51's? Answer... No. And AMA Pro Racindg did away with the rule that allowed another team to purchase the actual parts from another team's bike. I wonder why? Who did that rule benefit? Who would want it recinded? Wake up JQ.
Do you think you can buy a Duc 999R complete with the factory race kit and it will be competitive with the 998R's that Troy Baylis and Rubin Xaus rode last year? Take that notion to the paddock and see who is laughed at.
Later,
Blake (just the facts, no bias, no regurgitation of Jap marketing) |
Sportsman
| | Posted on Monday, January 20, 2003 - 11:48 pm: |
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My god, Blake and I agree on everything he just said. If it took this long for that to happen on this board, imagine what Buell HQ is like. They must keep a cardiac care unit on standby. See ya at Daytona. LWSB. But forward all money for Blake to Sportsman he will get it to Blake and let him win. |
Sportsman
| | Posted on Monday, January 20, 2003 - 11:55 pm: |
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Another thing, does a 1200 crank drop in firebolt cases or not? |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 12:01 am: |
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JQ,
If there is to be bias in AMA racing, it damn well SHOULD be in favor of an American brand of motorcycle and against factory teams. Unfortunately it is the opposite. If honest, AMA Pro Racing would rename themselves "AJMA Pro Marketing."
Greg,
Very well said. |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 06:48 am: |
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>>>>Do you think you can buy a Duc 999R complete with the factory race kit and it will be competitive with the 998R's that Troy Baylis and Rubin Xaus rode last year?
Court...waving hand wildly....."er, the answer to that, Sir, is "NO".
I'm sitting here in the midst of the Gotham Mototcycle Club that has a fairly well heeled group (I'm not among them) that can buy anything they want and who think nothing of paying $45,000 cash for a bike. They buy Ducatis from Mark at an alarming pace and I, as a favor, delivered TWO 996R's in one weekend to the Hampton homes of a couple fella's who'd never ridden a motorcycle before.
You know how scary it is to hand someone the keys to a $30,000 bike and have them ask "is the gearshift on the left or the right".
The "race replicas" that Ducati and Aprilia sell are second cousin's to a former roomates neighbors best friends uncles hunting buddy in terms of being related to the motorcycles you see on the race track.
Jose' is in fantasy land.
Court |
Benm2
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 07:17 am: |
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I thought that FUSA had modified alot of the supersport AND superbike rules at the REQUEST of Honda, as Honda wanted to use the classes as a 'development area'. It seems that the AMA is not the only bunch of jerks out there. Honda dropped out as the main sponsor really late too, leaving the series without a major name to draw. I suppose that's (at least a little) what the AMA fears; the Japanese walking out of the series. It might be a simple case of job security; FUSA is getting bigger. Honda may have shot across the bow of US racing with their FUSA move, and the members of AMA Pro-Racing are worried, perhaps. If the Japanese pull out of the AMA, would it survive? Or, would FUSA take over?
That could be interesting. If AMA Pro-Racing eats itself trying to cowtow, the Japanese will either have to stop supporting racing in the US (a really big market, bad idea) or they will get to compete in the leveled fields of the FUSA series. Wouldn't that be special?
Ben |
Imonabuss
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 04:56 pm: |
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Blake for President of AMA Pro Racing!!! |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 05:08 pm: |
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Ben,
I don't know of any rules benefitting Honda in FUSA SS. What are you talking about? Throwing out a statement like "I thought that FUSA had modified a lot of the supersport AND superbike rules at the REQUEST of Honda, as Honda wanted to use the classes as a 'development area'." doesn't mean much. Rules changes are fine as long as they are equitable and fair to all. They certainly did not exclude any brands from competing. They are HP limited classes after all.
Whatever their motivation, AMA Pro Racing is serving neither the best interests of fans nor of American motorcyclists. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 05:14 pm: |
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Imonabus,
LOL. I think I'd rather have a go with FUSA and the chance to help put AMA Pro Racing out of the road racing business. |
Jscott
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 05:51 pm: |
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JQ for President of AMA Pro Racing!!! |
Imonabuss
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 05:57 pm: |
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Actually, Blake, I'm with you on that. As far as Honda pressuring F-USA, it is true, but actually FUSA didn't cave. Honda wanted to have the horsepower limitations removed from 600 Supersport, so they could use it as a development ground. Suzuki had brought over World Supersport bikes from Europe for the Hooters team after Eric Wood won Laconia, and Honda wanted to follow that route as well, but without restrictions.
Their biggest motive? To test out what they hope to make happen in 250GP in Europe, which is to change that class into a 600cc four stroke class with no production restrictions. They did not care at all for the equality of competition that the horsepower limits in FUSA Supersport delivers.
FUSA didn't agree to do it, so "poof" there went the Honda sponsorship! A little different than the AMA when Buell was trying to keep a class competitive for privateers...
FUSA rules! Go to their events! |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 11:52 pm: |
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José,
"FUSA rules! Go to their events!"
Seems like we all agree on at least one thing eh?
Good on FUSA for standing up to the big factory. |
Benm2
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 11:30 am: |
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I thought that the new superbike (not the supersport) rules were as per the Honda request; Honda had been pressuring them to remove the hp restriction. It looked to me like FUSA had given in with the new superbike class being 600cc with no hp restriction. Perhaps the rest of the rules were written in such a way that did not guarantee Honda dominance, and hence support was pulled. So, to me, its unclear how much standing up to the big I4 companies was actually done.
Nonetheless, I await the day when FUSA is the premier racing organiziation, and riding talent determines winners more so than cash. What a joke the AMA is; watching Tony Meiring run with Jimmy Moore in superstock. Wonder how that 600 can run with a good privateer prepped 750. Come on, a top-running privateer 750 will have had engine work within the rules, and that 600 was running with it, 150cc's down. |
José_Quiñones
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 12:59 pm: |
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Yes
FUSA/Clear Channel puts on a great show, I went to their arenacross event in Baltimore this weekend and it was part rock show/religious service/motorcross race. A high energy, well produced show. Buell is a sponsor of the series, they had Buell t-shirt launches between events and they are giving away a Firebolt.
Formula USA Announces Proposed Changes For 2003 National Road Race Series
Quote:The Formula USA National Road Race Series has several changes in the works for the 2003 season and announced most of them at a meeting with racers and team owners Friday night, August 23 at Pocono International Raceway.
To start with, 600cc Sportbike will be the premiere class in the 2003 Formula USA National Road Race Series, CCS Event Manager Kevin Elliott told reporters Saturday, August 24.
“We chose to go with Sportbike because it is in line with the original concept of the series. It’s competitive, it’s fairly well paying and it’s attractive to both local guys and national-level traveling teams,” said Elliott. Based on input from what Elliott called “the powers that be and the people affected,” the Sportbike class will retain its current 115-horsepower (maximum) and 365-pound (minimum) limits and will run in a single leg of still-to-be-determined length, based on how long DOT-labeled tires can reasonably be expected to last.
Unlimited Superbike will convert from 750cc machines to 600cc racebikes. The possibility of adding 250cc, two-stroke Grand Prix race machines also exists. “It’s an interesting point that we will consider,” said Elliott. “But we’re afraid it will bring in an overdog.” Elliott elaborated by saying a very good rider on a very good 250 could dominate the series but stopped short of naming any specific racers.
Ducati 748/800s will be legal for the new Superbike class and will continue to be legal for the Sportbike class.
The switch to 600cc-based Superbikes comes from a request by motorcycle manufacturers for a class to do research and development work in. As a result, Formula USA will probably run the Superbike class with a 660cc displacement limit and a minimum weight limit of 330-340 pounds. The class will require that machines start with a production frame and production engine cases, with no horsepower limits.
“This is our opportunity to show the naysayers that the manufacturers will step up and support the class,” said Elliott. The “naysayers” Elliott refers to are racers currently in the F-USA series who doubt the manufacturers will provide the support, to individual teams and the series as a whole, that they promised in exchange for the new 600cc Superbike class.
“The manufacturers said they are also interested in rider development,” explained Elliott, who then went on to say the factory men like Formula USA’s revival of the Grand National Championship series, which combines 600cc Sportbike road races and Pro Singles dirt track races into a single Chamionship.
Plans call for Sportbike to keep its current $50,000 Championship points fund, Pro Singles to keep its current $50,000 Championship points fund and the $50,000 Championship points fund for the combined Grand National Championship series to remain.
Superbike will have a $5000 event purse supported by entry fees.
All they need is some TV exposure.
_____________________________________________________
Let me get this straight:
Honda requests rule changes, FUSA does not agree, Honda Pro Oils pulls out as a sponsor of the Sportbike Class, and you all praise FUSA?
Buell requests Pro Thunder rule changes at the end of the 2001 season, threatens to pull out if the rule changes are not enacted, the AMA changes the rules to match what Buell requested, Buell then sponsors the 2002 season, and you all praise Buell? |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 01:50 pm: |
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"Let me get this straight:
Honda requests rule changes, FUSA does not agree, Honda Pro Oils pulls out as a sponsor of the Sportbike Class, and you all praise FUSA?
Buell requests Pro Thunder rule changes at the end of the 2001 season, threatens to pull out if the rule changes are not enacted, the AMA changes the rules to match what Buell requested, Buell then sponsors the 2002 season, and you all praise Buell?"
I'll explain it one more time José. In the Pro Thunder case, the rule changes were requested and subsequently enacted to maintain parity among racing machines. Why race if you have absolutely no chance to win? That was not a threat, it was a simple statement of reality.
Honda's request was wholly self serving and would have eliminated Buell as a viable competitor. Was that a fair request? Answer... No it was a selfish request aimed with marketing and class domination in mind. FUSA recognized the disingenuous motives of Honda and told them "sorry, but no."
Buell's request was aimed at achieving fair and equitable racing. Was it a fair request? Did a Ducati still win the championship? Answer... Yes. Did it prevent the demise of the series? Answer... No.
More importantly, you fail to recognize that the bigger issue prior to the PT rules change as a stop-gap measure was that the AMA was strongly advised to exclude the Duc racebikes from an otherwise sportsmanesque racing class (no purpose built/repliracer racing machines allowed) but they ignored the advice of the series creator and others and included them anyway. What was the result of such a poor decision? The demise of the series into Duc Versus Buell racing with skyrocketing costs and ultimately the death of the series.
Inclusion of and domination by the 748's in the series is what chased away all the other brands/participants and led to the way inflated costs required to be competitive. But anyway, the rules change requested by Buell was to achieve parity, and it was very successful and very fair. Even with all the modifications made and money spent by the Buell teams trying to make competitive power, a 748 still won the championship. If that isn't iron clad evidence of the fairness of the rules change, I don't know what is.
You used to harp that Buell shouldn't race apples against oranges. The real issue is that AMA Pro Racing should not have included oranges in an apple oriented racing series. They should have simply let the Ducs into supersport where they belong. Why are they excluded? Please explain that to me.
I don't remember anyone "praising Buell" for requesting the rules change in PT. Has that ever even been an issue in this discussion? The issue is the poor management and dishonesty that is AMA Pro Racing versus the good management and even handed fairness exhibited by FUSA. Obfuscation of the issues will not change the facts. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 02:12 pm: |
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>>>"Let me get this straight:
Blake: You cloud his logic with facts and I'll personally bitch slap you. Now let him say his peace and get off to his Optimist Club meeting!
 |
Benm2
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 03:06 pm: |
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So, José, did FUSA cave to the factories and get the shaft anyway?
4-valves & overhead cams.....4-valves & overhead cams....4-valves & overhead cams.... 4-valves & overhead cams....
Did anyone else notice in the new FUSA rules that Buell's are allowed to convert to chain drive as long as the swingarm is provided by the OEM? And Buell's don't have to use OEM heads & cylinders? It seems Buell may have helped to write a few of those rules. Yes, Blake, they probably did so to ensure they'd stay competitive, so don't get upset. :-)
An xr750 with four valve heads & overhead cams. Throw in some magnesium rocker covers, too. Air cooling please.
ALL pro-racing is about racing THE fastest stuff. The different classes are setup to showcase bikes available in different insurance groups. Modifying rules for FAIRNESS does not change the fact that they're slanted. 115hp from 600cc's is more of a technological acheivement than 115hp from 1200cc. However, which one takes more money to acheive from public offerings? People who race Buell's in sportbike will do so because they want to, I mean REALLY want to, as such a bike will cost alot more than an R6 with a pipe and some minor headwork.
Sooner or later, old stuff goes to the vintage classes. Yes, people still race there, but not in front of the live televised audience. Racing seems to be important to Buell, but EVEN AT THE CLUB LEVEL the bikes require commitment to compete. I can't believe any of this is falling on deaf ears, though. Somewhere in East Troy, I'm convinced, is the engine to get the job done. I have faith. |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 03:30 pm: |
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Well, I think there should be nothing but multi-cylinder, DOHC, multi-valve, liquid cooled purpose built racebikes...'cause everything else is substandard, an embarrassment, and has no business being on a racetrack  |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 03:43 pm: |
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115hp from 600cc's is more of a technological acheivement than 115hp from 1200cc
That'd be 1200cc from an aircooled two valve pushrod motor...a motor whose basic layout is better suited to low to mid rpm usage...while a DOHC, 4 or 5 valve shim under bucket design is by design far better suited to high rpm operation to begin with. Is that a technological achievement? Not really...maybe during its inception...but that layout has been around for a long time and like everything else evolves with time.
It takes far more effort getting that kind of power from a Buell, and IMO that's a hell of a lot more of an achievement. |
Benm2
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 03:55 pm: |
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Hey, race what you want. If you can convince enough other people to develop a racing organization to push peanuts with your nose, more power to you. Personally, I plan on racing my Buell.
Public perception at the BUYER LEVEL is that Buell's need rule breaks to be competitive. You need look no further that WSB for proof. Even WSB racers believe that Ducati has an unfair advantage with 250 additional cc's, rather than admitting that they've been able to push up the piston speed limit higher than they've been able to acheive with their 750 fours. And, true to form, they've taken their toys and gone home. Face it, Buell owners interested in racing learn at least something of engine technology just to be able to understand why they're racing SV650's.
Joe racer will still want an R6. HD has the cash for a real racing effort, and Buell has (or can get) the talent for a competitive motor. And, yet again, I do NOT want another multi-cylinder, liquid cooled racebike. |
Benm2
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 06:30 pm: |
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Rick:
For an equal amount of money spent to get a 115hp buell, where do you think that 600cc four would be? And last I checked,there was no miracle of technology inside a pro-thunder motor. 1340cc's goes a loooooong way, making the comparison that much worse. To top it off, even in 1200cc form, it would still be TWICE THE DISPLACEMENT. A 1200cc motor with all that ancient overcam cam crap would (in pro-thunder tune)produce close to 250hp.
I'd guess the average 115hp buell has at least $3000 in engine work (race pipe, $600, air cleaner, $250, cams, $400, heads, $1000, carb, $300, etc.)In addition,this 115hp Buell will be at the limit of the motor's strength. In racing guise, more cash will have to go into the bottom end & valve train to get it to stay together. A racing 115hp Buell might be another 3-4K on top of that.
There's just not alot of technology there. Factory supported 600's in the same state of tune as the Buell pro-thunder motors would likely be 6/10ths of MotoGP levels, or about 130hp. The Buell motor is NOT about technology. The chassis, maybe.
Pushrod, two-valve engines make good lawnmower power plants, though. And, there are people that race them, too. I once had someone explain to me the finer points of getting 10hp out of a 5hp B&S engine. Neat, but still a 10hp lawnmower engine. The top classes of racing will never be about static technology (with the exception of NASCAR). It has been quite some time since pushrod, two valve motors were state of the art. And, if shim/bucket stuff is "old hat" too, then go get yourself a 1980 CB900F and get it to make as much power as a 954. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 07:19 pm: |
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BEN YOU'RE TALKING CRAP!!
Rocket  |
Sportsman
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 07:49 pm: |
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I'm with Ben on this one. (It's easy to tell a racer without a Nascar budget.)To put a Lightning bike with 100 hp now, into a Thunderbike or Sportbike ready setup. You can buy a race ready used 01 R6 and keep the Lightning bike for historical value. Bottom line is Nobody said racing is cheap. But Buell racing is more costly by far than racing a Jap bike. That is my only gripe, and why I made my earlier suggestion of an RR track use only model. NOT a Moto GP winner, a basic racer. Maintance is high, but the initial cash outlay to anybody that isn't a REAL Buell fanatic, is enough to send most to Yamaha. At least 3 guys on Yamahas at the track have told me they own a Buell for a streetbike. |
S320002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 07:53 pm: |
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Ben,
While he was explaining those "finer points" did he explain the difference between a push rod engine and a side valve/"flat head" engine?
Greg |
Racerx1
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 08:37 pm: |
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BenM2,
i must repectively disagree with you (far be it from me to argue with a fellow Buell racer!). I think you would be very surprized to find out the BMEP numbers of a stock 984 engine. when it comes down to it, all your doing is trying to fill a cylinder in the most efficient way possible...it doesn't really care if there are two valves or 4 valves or pushrods or overhead cams. The latest trend in looking at air flow numbers is to normalize them based on cylinder size, stroke, valve lift, curtain area, valve head diameter, etc....that way you can make a meaningful comparison between your Briggs and Stratton and Hayabusa. Turns out a two valve can be pretty damn efficient.
I wince everytime somebody does the 'well my 600cc GZXYR-600RR makes 100hp and you have to run double the displacement in a buell to get that! Must be an inefficient engine!!' There are two variables in the Horsepower equation. Torque and RPM. There is no displacement variable. I guarantee my 100cc XR100 will make 115hp if you rev it to 49,354 rpm. With the stroke length of a 1200, your pretty much limited to 7000 rpm before piston speeds become excessive, so your option is to increase torque as much as possible at engine speeds =<7000rpm. You can do it a million ways, superchargers, nitrous, oxygenated fuels, or in our case, by upping the displacement. a 100hp 600 that revs to 15000 rpm....., yea thats pretty good. A 100hp 1200cc buell reving to 7000. I'm equally impressed. Show me a 600 that makes 100hp at 7000rpm and I'll name my first child after you.
115hp out of a 1200? No problem. Hal's H-D put together an X1 (1200cc) with all factory parts, stock X1 cams, stock manifold. Had a 'deep' valve job and a pipe. 115hp @ 7000rpm, at the wheel and a 158mph trap speed at Daytona at October Formula usa races. |
S320002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 11:14 pm: |
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By the way Ben, I have a friend who CNC machines billet aluminum blocks for those "lawn mower" engines.
In full race tune in a Junior Dragster they put out 50 to 60 HP and do 75+ MPH in the 1/8 mile. Not bad for a lawn mower engine.
Greg |
Sportsman
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 11:24 pm: |
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C'mon racer, I'm not trying to dis you but there is alot more going on than a valve job to get 115. |
Racerx1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 12:17 am: |
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sportsman,
No problem....no dis taken! |
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Honda Drops FUSA Supersport - Should Buell Step Up? »
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