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Ar15ls1
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 04:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I had my bike dynod today with the Buell race ecm, air filter, and the Latus racing muffler.With the velocity stack out it made 80.7 hp and 61.1 lbs/ft. With the velocity stack back in the bike made78.5 hp and 62.0lbs/ft. The torque actually made 55 lbs with the stack on versus 52 at 3700 rpms with the stack off. Now compared to a guy with a firebolt with the complete buell race kit, he only made 75.2 hp and 61.0lbs/ft. He did make about 5 more lbs of torque than me at 5000 rpm. I was only making 53 where he had 58. Very interesting to see that I had more torque and hp on the bottom and on the top of the power band. On average he had more power in the middle. I have no way to post my dyno sheets, so I tried to explain it as best as I could. All in all I do believe that the Latus muffler sounds better, looks better, and produces the most power. One more thing is that this dyno is a very conservative one.Most bikes make a little bit lower hp and torque numbers than I usually see everywhere else.
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Chainsaw
Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My bone stock Firebolt dyno'd at just under 76hp at Aaron Wilson's. A local guy in our BRAG club here has the Buell Race Kit on his bike, his dyno'd at around 84hp at the dealer that installed it. I don't know the torque numbers on the bikes.

I like the sound of the Buell Race muffler, I haven't heard the Latus muffler yet. If I was the guy that spent $600+ on the Buell Race Kit, I would want to know why my bike was putting out stock HP. Do you know what he dyno'd at before the Race Kit?

I'm reluctant to part with $600 bucks for 8 ponies!

ChainSaw
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Ar15ls1
Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Like I said this is a conservative dyno. And the service manager would not allow the engines to be revved passed 7000 rpm. If you look at both of our curves the hp numbers are still going up when they shut the bikes down. We would probably be betting 3-5 more hp if the motors were revved up to the 7500 rpm redline.
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Stormfool
Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 10:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

As far as putting out stock numbers after the race kit I unfortunately am in the same soup--after over a thousand bucks for all those goodies on my 2000 X1 I put out 87HP and 76FTLBS. Not very exciting news--I know RWHP is always less than crank HP, but still even at 15% loss (which I gather is to be expected) that's about 101 at the crank--dead stock numbers. And I definitely noticed a great improvement in overall zip even before the dyno run at Cyclerama
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Ar15ls1
Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 11:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Whatever the numbers say on the dyno, I know my bike has made a huge jump in performance. I have much better throttle response, better torque, and the power seems to be much smoother all the way to redline. I am more than happy with the performance of my bike,I guess until I decide to go into the motor!!!
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Dynarider
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 07:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The numbers on all of the firebolts look real sad compared to the tube framers.
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Ar15ls1
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 07:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yeah But put a tube framer next to the firebolt with the same mods and see who wins.
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Court
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 08:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>>The numbers on all of the firebolts look real sad compared to the tube framers.

Please explain that. I'm curious as to how you have arrived at a conclusion that is 180oopposite from the magazines and everyone I've spoken to who has done test riding and owns a Firebolt.

If the "numbers" are what you are JUST looking at, I'd say it's safe to assume you'd lust over Oprah Winfrey rather than Cheryl Teigs. To quote Obe Jaun, "the force has a powerful effect....." ah, nevermind.

You may have just saved me from buying my 7th Buell.

:)

Court
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Dynarider
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 08:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

You know damn good & well what numbers I am referring to. The hp & torque at the rear wheel are down substantially from the tube framers. Most of the bolts are putting out something like upper 60's to mid 70's in a stock con figuration & the race kit might nab you 8hp more if santa likes you & the stars are all in alginment.

For the tube frames, mid 80's was a piece of cake. And mid 90's were only a few $$ away also.
I truly wish the lil bolt had 100 or so ponies at the rear, it would truly be a beast to reckon with then.

And Joey, I have been up against bolts with similar mods & sometimes more on a couple of track days & believe me when I say those bikes sure as hell didnt kick my X1's ass. I passed more than a few of them & I have names of witnesses, some who post here to prove it. I am a fair track rider, certainly a long way from being good, but the lil bolt in someones hands who has similar abilities as me wasnt a very daunting challenger.
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Dynarider
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 08:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

And Cheryl teigs?? Come on Court, you are really starting to show your age. Isnt she about 65 yrs old by now:D

Hell you coulda compared Oprah to Jennifer lopez or britnney, or Shakira, But certainly not that old washed up has been Teigs. And look at the corners of her mouth, looks like the skin has been stretched just one too many times from all the face lifts.
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Dynarider
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 08:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)



LOL..yea, she's a real looker:D
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Dynarider
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 09:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The years have not been kind to the old girl at all. 30 yrs has really taken a toll on her, she always had weird shaped hips too.

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Ar15ls1
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 09:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Dynarider, I am not going to start comparing how good of a rider you are and that your tube frame buell(in which I really like) is faster than a firebolt. We could get into an old debate about better riders and faster bikes on different tracks. I do not do any road racing here where I live. We mostly drag race. I have beat a couple of s1 lightnings that had mods when my bolt was stock. Yes it could be the rider , but in a straight line it does help prove a power to power fight. Lets not start getting into a pissing contest! I like all of these Buells.
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Court
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 10:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thank you, Dyna, for proving my point far more eloquently than I am capable of.

The XB framed Buells are far superior to the tube framers for their intended purpose. I concede that I have not ridden the XB and am relying on press reports, conversations with Buell test riders and European long term test results. By the way, in Superbike long term testing the XB is surprising and embarrasing the riders of "bikes with big numbers" on the tracks of England)

Sounds to me like you are a candidate for a turbo Hayabusa or an F-15E Strike Eagle.

Court
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Hootowl
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 10:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

...or an F-15E Strike Eagle.

You got one you want to get rid of?

Naw, forget it, if it doesn't have a tailhook, I don't have any use for it.
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Court
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 10:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well, if you do.....two of my buds have (or HAD) the Civilian "time to climb" records. One in an F-15, the other in a MIG.

The F-15 was Guggenheim curator Ultan Guifoyle who is one of the funniest pals I have. He's done a number of intersting things from airplanes (do not let me forget to tell his hang gliding story someday) to getting an Admiral (under the influence" for that final, HIGHLY AGAINST REGS, closing shot in his A&E Documentary "Carrier Bttle Group". His last foray was shooting his mouth off about Trials riding, the next thing you know a plane ticket lands on his desk and Gas Gas has a bike waiting for him...you can probably find the results under the Spanish Six Day Trials or someplace.

We're not so good at physics and numbers....we just ride the damn motorcycles.

Court
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Mls1
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The F-15 does too have a tail hook.

It may not be as stout as the ones used on Naval Aircraft so they can land on a ship. But it does have one for emergencies such as brake failures it can drop the hook and grab the barrier before going off the end of the runway.

So does the F-16 and most USAF Fighters, I believe even the F-117 Stealth has one hidden behind a jagged door that blows off when the Hook is dropped.

Mark
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Ar15ls1
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 12:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

One more thing to remember to Dynarider, The xb's are only 984cc compared to the 1200cc tube frame bikes.The hp numbers are not that far off with a lot less size. The torque numbers are further down but the little motor makes up for it in the higher rpm range where it pulls much harder than the 1200s
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Court
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 01:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>>The F-15 does too have a tail hook.

That's interesting....been buying Jane's all these years and "I did not know that".

Thank you,
Court
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Ar15ls1
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 03:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Is the F22 going to have one. It may get in the way of the thrust vectoring nozzles.
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Hootowl
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

deleted...
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Dynarider
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 06:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

==================================================
By the way, in Superbike long term testing the XB is surprising and embarrasing the riders of "bikes with big numbers" on the tracks of England)
==================================================

And what type of track would that be? You & I both know a Buell, either a tube frame or an XB is great on a nice tight twisty track & can hand the liter sized superbikes their ass on them. I was simply comparing X1 vs XB on 2 tracks that I have ridden & raced against them on. Blackhawk & Road america.

At Blackhawk I had no problem passing 1 guy on an R1 & another on a race prepped 750 ninja. On the front straight they would kick my ass, but as soon as it got tight & twisty, it was bye bye folks.

At Road america had a rider in our group on a ZX12R ninja, man was that fun passing him on the outside of the carousel not once but twice:D Come to that long 3200' front straight & he would be 1/4 mile ahead of me, but by the third turn I was all over him.

On a tight, technical track the Buells will more than hold their own against any bike. But open that track up & the higher hp bikes will win.
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Dynarider
Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 05:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

BTW Court, if you know anyone who could hook me up with a ride in that F-15E Strike Eagle, hook me up. I bet that would be the ultimate rush.

The turbo Busa could be fun on the salt, but its still an ugly bastard of a bike.
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Court
Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 07:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>>I bet that would be the ultimate

No problem. . .let me know if you need tips or help. By the way, I've got an interesting one if you are interested...how about 15 days of bicycling through VietNam? Also have an interesting Buell XB9S route mapped out that I keep urging myself to delete the file before I act on it....
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Mls1
Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 01:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I just went over to the Lockheed Martin corporate website. Yes the F-22 Raptor has a tailhook below and inbetween the engines.

If you look at some pictures from the lower side you can see a bulge where the hook is housed. Its very similar to the arrangement on the F-15 except that its housed internally for stealth/radar return reasons.

We also use the tailhook on our F-16's when doing high power engine runs Afterburner etc. Its the only way hold it back with 32,000 pds of thrust.

Dyna I think you would enjoy an F-18 or F-16 ride better. The Eagle is comparable to a Busa. Extremely Fast but not as maneuverable. If you did take an Eagle ride, an A or C model would be better, they are thousands of pounds lighter since they are Air-Air only and dont have the Blister tanks on the side for extra fuel. The Hornet or Viper (Falcon) would be more like a Buell. They will out accelerate anything around and the F-16 is the only airframe that can consistently pull 9+ G's.

I got a backseat Ride in the Viper a few years ago. Most amazing experience of my Life.

Mark
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Chainsaw
Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 03:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Court:

Jane's "All The World's Aircraft" runs about $600 per year, in book form. I'm a big fan of their site and info, but I gotta ask...do you buy it out of curiousity or is it a "work related" write off for you?

I'm just jealous! I would subscribe if my curiousity could justify the price.

Mls1:
Does the F22 have a future in our Armed Services, or will it be replaced by the upcoming Joint Strike Fighter, with all of it's variants (including a vectored thrust version for VSTOL)?

(just curious and way off topic)
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Ar15ls1
Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 05:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I dont believe that the f22 will be replaced by the joint strike fighter. It will work the same way that the f16 compliments the f15's. The jsf will be the work horse as is the f16. The f22 is far to capable of an aircraft to not put into service. Now that we have real threats like North Korea with very advanced air defense sysyems we need good stealthy ,surgical strike airplanes like the b-2, f-117, f22, and jsf. they will all certainly pay for themselves!
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Rick_A
Posted on Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 02:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yeppers...the powers that be wanted to bin the F-22...the government didn't want to allot the $$...and the military powers that be went along with it anyway. Hey, what can I say, I'm not into politics...but that's the jist of it.
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