| Author | Message | ||
     Fasteddieb |
A while back I wrote a letter to Ft Lauderdale Harley Davidson, cc'd to corporate: Dear Sirs, Thank you for the card regarding my Buell Demo Ride at Daytona. I rode the Firebolt at Daytona and decided to buy one. I am mostly a BMW rider, and this decision was made in spite of the somewhat poor reliability record Buells have had in the past. In any event, I visited a few local dealers and called a few more, to see if any Firebolts were in stock or when some were expected in. I was hoping to buy one for the $9,995 suggested retail, plus a reasonable freight/setup charge. To my mind, $300 to $500 seemed like a fair amount to ship and prep a bike. In any event, when I visited your dealership I was told you had some coming in, and that the price was $11,600. That was so much more than list, I inquired if that was an “out-the-door” price, including tax. I was told that tax was not included. I exercised my right as a consumer and simply said “No, that’s too much” and left. I now have a purchase order with another local dealer for $9,995 plus $300 freight/setup plus $63.50 in fees. I understand that “suggested” retail price is exactly that: suggested, and that you are free to charge whatever the market will bear. Harley-Davidsons have in the past commanded large markups and more credit to you if people are willing to pay that much. I mentioned your pricing to several people - each said that they weren’t surprised, that Ft. Lauderdale Harley-Davidson has a reputation for price gouging. In your defense, it’s hardly gouging if someone willingly pays your price. However, the sport bike market is such that I was not willing to be “gouged” when there are so many quality alternatives available. In the interest of full disclosure, I am a Harley-Davidson shareholder and have every wish to see the company continue to prosper. Thanks for your attention, ________________ Edward Benson cc: Harley-Davidson Corporate Office 3 months later (I guess they're busy) I got the response below. I thought the last line was "cute"  | ||
| Eeeeek |
I ran that lett throught he Babelfish translator from legaleeze to English and it returned: "Dat's da way it is." Vik | ||
| Blacksix |
"we hope that pricing difficulties will dampen your enthusiasm for our products" Funny. | ||
| Ramon |
"will dampen"? What does that mean? I read "dampen" as having a negative connotation , I don't ge it  | ||
| Fasteddieb |
I REALLY think he just inadvertantly left out the word "not" between "will" and "dampen". Unless it WAS a "Freudian slip" Unless he REALLY meant "kiss off" Unless... ...oh, never mind | ||
| Blake |
 Oh man, my gut is gonna hurt tomorrow. That is a classic gaffe if I ever saw one. Thanks for sharing that Fast Eddie B.! | ||
| Leeaw |
What they are saying is that they are not responsible nor take any interest in who sells their products, just as long as they go out of the factory door. Come to my area and you can get a V-Rod for $22,000. | ||
| Eeeeek |
HEhehe...I didn't even notice the slip up... | ||
| X1glider |
It's too bad HD corporate doesn't believe what a customer feels about his dealership reflects upon them as well. HD would win more customers, and happy customes at that, if they kept a leash on these "independently owned" stealerships. Some days you'll hear them say "we have no control over what a dealership does" and in other circumstances, you'll hear the opposite. Dealerships have rules to abide by. HD sets the guidelines for operation but it's a shame they don't audit the dealerships and appropriately train them so they can be sure a certain level of quality and consistency is delivered. HD, nor anyone, will survive without their customers, and our satisfaction should be paramount. | ||
| Jima4media |
Babelfish sez - "dampen your enthusiasm" means "piss on you" | ||
| Arbalest |
Up here in the hinterlands (ME), our local HD stealership charges $3k over retail for traditional HD bikes. They are selling Buells and the Vrod at retail - $9999 for the 'Bolt and $17k(and change)for the Vrod. | ||
| Blake |
I'll certainly not argue against the free market. If people want to pay the money, dealers should certainly be free to charge over MSRP. Anything else would be communism. BUCK THAT!!! | ||
| Bykergeek |
Unfortunately, H-D can and probably does sometimes fall into the trap of many other big companies (AT&T?). Business is so good that they seemingly *can* afford to lose or piss off a few individual consumers since someone else is already in line to buy their product over msrp. This has probably been the single biggest non incentive for them to technologically innovate their products. | ||
| Shot_Gun |
Thats pretty funny  Hehehehe. I love it when the truth comes out "accidentally". We sell 100+ thousand motorcycles a year and your point is? Atleast they sent you a letter to make you feel better about getting a good greasing. | ||
| Bullitt |
FastEd - FWIW Ft Lauderdale H-D is owned by a guy named Bruce Rossmeyer. He also owns Daytona H-D, New Smyrna H-D and a couple of others. Years ago, Bruce sold Toyotas. Owned a dealership down the street from me in Longwood, FL. So much for the Old Glory waving his dealerships do now. Come get yer Tercels! Let me assure you, he honed his craft carefully before selling that place. The B.B.B. files are probably still overflowing with complaints. Make no mistake, this man is selling Harleys for one reason, and one reason only: cold, hard, cash. He couldn't care less what you think. Or I think. Or what H-D thinks. The thought of selling H-D's at MSRP or (gasp!) less probably makes his blood run cold. Give him credit where it is due, though - he has a knack for figuring out what people want and having it for sale. When he sold the Toyotas, it was at the time that people were lining up around the block for them. Same way now with the Harleys. Really want to be ticked off? Call Ft Lauderdale back and ask for a trade in quote on your new FireBolt! Brand new, no miles! | ||
| Raymaines |
I wadded up my M2 a while ago and after I cashed the insurance check I went shopping for a new bike. I’ve got to say that things are really different when you have cash in hand and aren’t really hung up on what brand of bike to buy. When I stepped outside of the HD circle and looked critically at the dealers and the bikes available it seemed surprising to me that Buell could ever sell a Firebolt. I looked at just about every bike that seemed interesting and, frankly, the Firebolt just didn’t look very appealing. It’s a neat little bike and all, but it’s small, plastic and stickered at a whopping $10,650 PLUS freight and setup. Then the dealer says “No, we won’t discount the price. Please take a number and line up outside the door. Thank you, next please. Oh, by the way, what’s a Firebolt? What’s a Buell? Do we carry those?” And then HD says “we hope that pricing difficulties will dampen your enthusiasm for our products.” It did. All of this happens at a time when every metric store in town has an “End Of The Year” sale on their left over 2002 bikes. The GXS-R 1000 was $9,000, a Triumph Speed Triple was $9,500, Suzuki Hayabusa’s are going for $9,800, Ducati M900 Dark for $9,500, used 2001 Aprilia Falco for $8,000, Honda Super Hawks and Yamaha FZ-1’s for $8,000. God only knows what you could pick up a 1200 Bandit or 900 Ninja for. BTW, I bought a 2002 Triumph Sprint RS for $7,000 plus $600 freight and set up, $100 for license tabs, and 8.8% Washington state sales tax. It’s not the perfect bike but it does have 118 (crank) H.P. and a two year warrantee. I loved my M2 and wouldn’t have sold it for anything but the insurance company gave me a good price and the Triumph is a better bike in just about every measurable way. So far, I’m a happy camper. I hope that BMC sells a zillion of these little buggers but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a killer “year end sale” on left over 2003’s about this time next year. | ||
| Blake |
Ray, Congrats on the new bike. The Sprint is a great motorcycle. But I'd have to disagree with your statement wrt to your M2 that "the Triumph is a better bike in just about every measurable way. The Buell excels in many areas and surpasses the Triumph in many as follows. 1. Fuel efficiency (50+ mpg's) 2. Ease of Maintenance (single carb, belt drive, hydraulic lifters, no water) 3. Handling (more sporty geometry) 4. Looks (personal preference) 5. Sound (though three cyls is pretty cool too) 6. Low end grunt As to the XB9R being little and plastic. "Little" was one of the primary design goals, and the B2 Stealth Bomber is more "plastic", is that really a bad thing? I say no. Anyway, does your Trump have a metal fairing, fender, and tail section?  | ||
| Raymaines |
Blake, your kind response deserves a better reply than I have time for now. Sorry. Funny thing, but the Triumph has MORE plastic than the Firebolt. The only way I can justify my feelings here is that it has real paint. Somehow that seemed important to me. After 1,600 miles I'm getting 44.5 mpg. Not too bad. Chains are a pain but they don't cost $500 to replace when they break 50 miles outside of Los Vagas as my belt did. Three FI thingies are just about as trouble free as one carb that was never exactly right. I'll give you the lifters and valves but stray pieces and parts don't rattle off of the T machine. What I save in Loctite pays for the valve adjustments. I suppose handling goes to the Firebolt but 99% of the time I'm in traffic and/or on the freeway so how could I know? So I'll shift down a gear, I've got six to pick from. | ||
| Blake |
"The only way I can justify my feelings here is that it has real paint. Somehow that seemed important to me." I agree. I do NOT like the bare surlyn surfaces especially on the Black X1's I've seen, very dull/dingy looking. I hope the new Lightnings in Black have solved the dingy finish look. A mere coat or two of clear coat would fix the whole problem. "Three FI thingies are just about as trouble free as one carb" Let's revisit that thought a few years from now. You may be right. I thought your reply was more than adequate. | ||
| M2cyclone00 |
To each his own! That's what I love about motorcycles & motorcyclists. I'd rather have my M2 than any other bike. I'd rather have an 883 Sportster than most any bike as well. And in my own terms, my M2 or an 883 or better in most any measureable way than an RS. I've ridden several & I don't like them. A friend of mine is pretty much fed up with Triumph after his frame cracked on his Daytona, most likely from a poor design. But, I'm glad that tastes vary, otherwise I wouldn't have seen an inline 4 cylinder diesel powered bike on Main Street, Daytona. | ||
| Bykergeek |
I have both XB9r and a '00 Speed Triple. On the question of power, hands down, the Trumpet will whip the snot out of my XB in all gears (it has 6 of them). Which is my favorite? Hands down, it is the Buell. The Triumph and the Jap4 bikes are much more refined in some senses but sometimes refinement is more suited for the Grey Poupon and caviar crowd. Da Buell has got character, rightious tone and unmistakable personality ! They're both great bikes, each with very different feel. Curiously, the Triumph is for sale. You can email me if interested or check out http://www.speedtriple.net | ||
| Fasteddieb |
Arriving home from Deal's Gap, I found the following:  I can only assume that this "thread" got back to Mr. Selensky. Glad he could clarify things! | ||
| Anonymous |
uhh... A 'friend' in the Motor Company made him aware of his mistake. Apparently some of the guys that work there had some fun passing that one around... |
