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Archive through October 02, 2005Bigdaddy30 10-02-05  12:05 pm
         

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Chellem
Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 01:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Court says:

There will always be someone stepping up to compete on price only. Those folks scare me.

When you buy a large ticket item (car, motorcycle or guitar in my case), you are buying into an ongoing relationship. Look past the instant purchase.

I'm trying to think back about what would have happened if I had married the cheapest gal I knew.



If all dealers decided to sell on price, and all customers decided that price was the most important thing, then you'd be buying your parts at Walmart.

I know from *MY* experience, the customer service at Walmart is AWESOME.

But that's what price-only shopping gets ya.
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Oldog
Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 11:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks Dave S and our other sponsors for help in supporting this board.
I am grateful for it and your sponsorship of it.

I am fortunate to have a fairly good dealer near by, while their offerings are largely for the chrome and fringes set, they sell and service buells, after some bumps, I established a good raport with them, case in point Why pay 250$ for a helment I can get ON line 215$ WHY buy it local? Easy, so I can try it on, get the shield for it when I scratch the old one, so when I need the parts or to ask a question they are there and want to take the time to deal with me, Loyalty is a 2 way street

ALL: some questions if I may?
If Daves & Chellem and the other "dedicated" dealers & Techs are not making ANY profit or even a decent living why stay in the Buell business? Then what for us buellies? "E-Buell maybe Al, Dave or our other sponsors, other wise no thanks"
Have you ever walked around a well stocked nice dealership and asked this one question?
How much money is sitting here, chrome, clothes, bikes, and parts?
What is their return on investment? is profit a bad word here.

I agree about spend wisely for sure,

But its disrespectful to our sponsors discuss the cheapie [ NO SERVICE ] dealers here!

thanks to all of the supporting dealers...
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Coolice
Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 12:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Oldog, I personally am with you when its to supporting a dealer. I try to do as much as possible, even paying more $$, I am NOT trying to get the "better" deal. Local dealers are the ones that are asked to support rides, racing and other local events to benefit our sport. So to the active dealers here THANKS! Its just frustrating that a few salespeople at dealers create a negative feeling towards Buell and bad service makes it worse, WHY? It's all for $$, perform the service well and more will come to you. That's why the dealer/sponsers here do so well, they provide
what we want. That's all that the local dealer's need to do as well.
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Oldog
Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 01:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Coolice:
Well said my friend!
if I may ramble a bit on price point selling and what it gets you from my own ( non buell)experience.

I worked for a large chemical producer that sold their goods on price point,
Eventualy when the profit was beaten out of them by the customers, They cut corners,

As a customer service tech I have had many hostile customers to deal with because of managements' "shenanigans"

I had one thing in my favor a good boss that drilled into me see to it that I did My best to do it right / make it right, it made us wildly unpopular with management after he left.

I stuck to my guns, till the day I left. Today the salary and the company bennies are gone.( but so is the bovine excrement)

It's tough to work for your self, YET I still work for some of those same businesses, they pay me to get service that could be free WHY?

Because the service from the cheapest supplier sucks they can't make any money selling for less on volume, So they don't have money for sufficent service staff or equipment, as the spiral has continued, they have lost several Major accounts ( Millions of dollars in sales )
due to service issues and broken promises.

As they continued cost cutting measures( including "loosing" all of the veteran engineering staff that they did have )
they have had to hire MORE staff in an attempt to recoup,
They have lost even more accounts most of their problems stem from 2 things

1. Low profitability, the other guys cut back some but maintained service levels kept customers
and picked up some too.

2. And some thing that DaveS mentioned,

" When I say "it's a deal" It is a deal.Integrity is everything."

while all business have problems and no one is 100% all of the time. But price point alone is a loosing proposition, eventualy you can't cut any more and you can't support your product. You loose customers.

If we as customers buy on price point alone there will be a heavy price to pay some where down the line

Been there done that have the polo shirt wear it to wrench on my Buell

we now return you to the previous thread in progress....
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Jerseyguy
Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 08:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Fresno - GOTO this thread for my recent experience purchasing a new Buell. I'm sure Dave S. has similar standards to Liberty HD.


http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/4062/149047.html
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Old_mil
Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

A Story Of How Price Based Competition Can Screw Things Up...

In some ways, BMW is a marque that's a lot like Buell. Sales/ridership is a fraction of that of the Japanese or HD brands. Anyhow, a certain BMW dealership in Florida in a seaside down decided to get into the business of selling new BMW motorcycles on the internet for significantly less than most other BMW dealers.

Clearly, they've had some success doing this. The Orlando BMW dealer has been sold to this organization.

However this dealer doesn't support the marque and it would be the last place I'd take my bike for service as per owner comments.

In a time when the BMW dealer network is shrinking, does this become a wise purchase? Up front it might seem so. After all, we all work and $1,500-$2,000 is a tough pill to swallow up front.

It's not as tough to deal with 3 years later when you need service in the middle of Montana and you can't get it.
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Medic_2512
Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 09:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Your all absolutely right about how supporting a local dealer is important as well as intergrity and service.

But who here can honestly tell me the the would pay $3000-$4000 for their Buell just because the dealer was better? Maybe you have that kind of money to spend, not me.

As opposed to saving $3000-$4000 from a basically HD dealer that sells a few buells too who is 3 hours from home. Why not just buy the cheaper bike and then get it serviced locally.

I`m not trying to start a huge discussion here, i do get alot of parts and service my bike locally. And i would have bought the bike locally too, but when the Local Buell dealer wants $11,500 and a HD dealer 3 hours away is selling the same bike for $8500 the choice is easy! Tell me who would spend the extra $3000?

Personally i would much rather one fixed price around the county like Saturn does with their cars.
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Chellem
Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 10:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Medic says:

But who here can honestly tell me the the would pay $3000-$4000 for their Buell just because the dealer was better? Maybe you have that kind of money to spend, not me.

Actually, it happens all the time. Not with us, necessarily, because we've never been a market dealer. But there are big, famous dealers out there (whose names I will not mention) who routinely charge more than MSRP. Not only do they sell all their bikes, but the people LOVE them. Why?

Well, among other things, with the extra money they can afford greeters, personal shoppers, receptionists, coffee-getters and lots of other "personal-attention" employees. They can also afford to put out snacks and sodas and whatever customers want. They can afford really nice customer areas with flat screen tvs and the whole works. People drive from all over for the opportunity to pay too much for bikes from these guys.

It's all a matter of what you want, and what you're willing to pay for it.

Personally, I think a happy medium is MSRP. Harley and Buell give dealers a reasonable markup on the bikes, enough to run a very nice dealership and provide good service to people.

The "one fixed price" idea is fine, it's called MSRP. However, it is VERY illegal for any company to force dealers to charge a certain amount. It violates anti-trust laws, and there are hefty fines for such things. All they can do is "suggest" which is what the S stands for in MSRP. It is up to individual dealers to decide how much they can afford to give away. The main reason, I believe, that Saturn doesn't haggle is because the company doesn't offer any factory incentives, so there's nothing for the dealership to haggle with.

Really small or really old dealerships have much lower overhead. They also have really old, really small dealerships.

It's all a matter of what you need, want, are comfortable with, and are happy settling for.
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Dave
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Spot on Medic_2512

DAve
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Bomber
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 12:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I kinda miss the old, smaller dealers (of all brands) where your boots stuck to the floors, the aroma or long-chain hydrocarbons wafted from the service area (the vast majority of floor space), the dogs were very friendly during bidness hours, not so much after, and you had to take the spark plug outside to read the heat range printed thereon . . . . . . .
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Budo
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 02:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

'Harley and Buell give dealers a reasonable markup on the bikes, enough to run a very nice dealership and provide good service to people.'
I believe that is true, but of course does not apply to all dealers and especially not to mine (Bumpas HD/Buell of Memphis). Most of the folks there show up to put in their hours and collect their paychek. They don't care if your bike is running or not or if you are a happy customer or not. As always YMMV.
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Chellem
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 04:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Budo says:
I believe that is true, but of course does not apply to all dealers and especially not to mine (Bumpas HD/Buell of Memphis). Most of the folks there show up to put in their hours and collect their paychek. They don't care if your bike is running or not or if you are a happy customer or not. As always YMMV.

I think that's true to some degree in every industry though. I didn't mean that every dealer spent that money properly, or that spending it properly would necessarily lead to the desired outcome. I just meant that it's a reasonable amount.
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Davegess
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 05:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'm trying to think back about what would have happened if I had married the cheapest gal I knew.

Leave it to Court to express it jsut so. I would like to hear some soties about this gal, somewhere where Mis Vicky can't listen it ; )
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Jlnance
Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I would like to hear some soties about this gal, somewhere where Mis Vicky can't listen in

Oh, I wish badweb search worked better. Somewhere there is a thread where someone makes the assertion that the back seats of mustangs are entirely useless. Court poped in and claimed that "that is not an entirely accurate statement."
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Court
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 05:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>>>Court poped in and claimed that "that is not an entirely accurate statement."

That is an accurate statement.
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Old_mil
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 06:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I don't know Medic. I know that I'm willing to pay "more" to buy from a reputable dealer with a good staff and service department to keep him afloat. Am I willing to pay $3,000 more? No.

My point was more along the lines of this: there are people who will shop a bike on the other side of the country because it's $1,000 less than it is in town and pay a transporter $500 to get it to their house to save $500...not realizing that this is false economy in the long run.
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Blake
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 08:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

BadWeB Search... "Back seat mustang" with "AND (match all keywords)" option...

first hit turned up following...

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=4062&post=376954#POST 376954

If the BadWeB search worked any better, you'd not need to even type in the words. Suggest you learn to use it more effectively, as in acquaint yourself with the various options it provides. : )
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Ray_maines
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 09:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

As for the cheap girl: Courts argument assumes that there are only five models of girls, just as there are five models of Buell (or six or four, whatever). If the tall, skinny red head could be had for $100,000 but came from a dysfunctional family, would you pay $135,000 for the exact same girl from a "good" family? Maybe you should if your always going to be running to her mother for advice. But if you figure you can straighten her out all by yourself then buy the cheap version. Ah that life should be so simple.

I say that you should spend your money where you ask your questions or eat your donuts. If you don't ask any questions, don't go on group rides, and don't hang out at the dealer on Saturday mornings then maybe the internet dealer in Florida is for you. But it really isn't fair to grill the service guy for all the information you can get, try on all the helmets in the store, test ride the bikes and then buy from the cheap dealer six states away.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 09:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Try finding the picture of the bent XB exhaust somebody posted back early on in the XB history... I have searched high and low for that stupid picture with no luck...

But yes, if you get the and's set instead of or's, the problem is typically too many results, not too few.
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Ray_maines
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 09:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

As to the original question: Go to all the dealers around and bargain your silly butt off then pay whatever you have to for the bike you want. Some guy in a different place at a different time will have gotten a better deal but so what! Two years from now you won't remember what you paid for the bike but you will remember the purchase experience and the service you got after the sale.

My experience is that MSRP is pretty hard to beat. My local dealers would rather have a four year old bike on the floor with a MSRP price tag on it than a sale for less.
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Jlnance
Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 07:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Suggest you learn to use it more effectively, as in acquaint yourself with the various options it provides.

I'm generally pretty good with it, though obviously not this time. The last time I tried, it seemed it wouldn't search for phrases, which would be a nice feature. The one thing which would be absolutly wonderful would be if I could search for keywords in posts by a particular author.
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Henrik
Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 08:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I could search for keywords in posts by a particular author.

I realize there is no particular field for searching authors specifically - however, many of us sign our posts within the body text of the post. So depending on who you're looking for, that may be an option.

And now that I scroll up through just this thread, I realize that I'm probably one of the only ones who's doing that. Oh, well. It was an idea.

Henrik
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Jlnance
Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 10:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I realize there is no particular field for searching authors specifically

There is actually. You can search by text, subject, or author. But you can only search by one at a time.

Google does index badweb, so you can search over there to:

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=Henrik&num=10&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq= &as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitese arch=badweatherbikers.com&safe=images
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Henrik
Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 09:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

What I meant and didn't express well was, that there is no way of doing a combined search for specific key words in posts by a particular author. It's an either or thing, unless the author signs his/her posts within the text of the message.

Henrik
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Jlnance
Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 09:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks Henrik
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