| Author | Message | ||
     Raymaines |
On the back page of my brand new Sept. issue of MOTORCYCLEST magazine, in the MEGAPHONE column under the title Musical Logos, Art Friedman asks a most interesting question: and I quote... Back in the early 1980's, when Harley Davidson was in trouble and there was speculation that one of the Japanese companies would buy it, this is what I wanted to see happen: Yamaha, whose recently introduced Virago V-twins had been greeted with much derision from certain quarters for imitating Harley, would buy The Motor Company. Then I hoped Yamaha would change absolutely nothing except to put Harley logos on the Viragos and Yamaha logos on the Harleys. It didn’t make business sense, of course, but I was intensely curious what people would do. Would the Harley faithful buy the same bike, even though it had a Yamaha badge on it? Would those people who wanted a tandem V-twin but had always said they’d never buy a Harley now get one if it had a different name on it? Or would they buy the Yamaha-built V-twin even though it now wore a Harley logo? What would they buy, the nameplate or the machine? Close quote. Then he goes on to say the cooperative agreement between Kawasaki and Suzuki raises similar questions. It’s a good article in the back of a good magazine. Buy it and enjoy it. My question here though, is: What would YOU buy, nameplate or machine? | ||
| Spiderman |
Deep thoughts by Jack Handy =-) It really depend i would buy anything Buell. But more than likely the machine cause, I love Ducaties better than Harleys. But Buell is allways #1 on my list  | ||
| Hans |
Always the machine, whatever plate. When I was the proud owner of an open Italian sports car, kids had half torn off the logo from the trunk lid as collectors item. I suggested the dealer to put an Opel logo in place: Less attractive. When the dealer started to show all the signs of a sudden epileptic attack the dime fell through and "Kidding of course" cured his sickness at once. Irrepairable plate lover, that dealer. Hans | ||
| Peter |
The machine. Most bikes that I've owned and played around with, ended up getting new paint jobs. Usually the brand name didn't go back on. PPiA | ||
| Java |
I buy the bike first, but if its close, the name can tip the scales. I mean if you want a 600 race-rep, pick the name, they're that close. But early 80s Virago vs Harley? There's a vast difference there. Know what you want in a bike, and choose. But I guess guys like us can't truely understand the question, though. What would the whole If-you-have-to-ask-you-wouldn't-understand-why-I-waited-in-line-to-pay-thousands-over-MSRP crowd do? Interesting question. | ||
| Rick_A |
The machine of course...You can easily switch the name so it's proper...which reminds me...I've seen a few Buells with H-D on the tank...which is quite improper, IMO. | ||
| Spiderman |
Yeah i hate seeing H-D stuff on Buells. Two of my BRAG members in the chapter have H-D derby covers and it just makes my skin crawl. Sorry to all people with H-D stuff on your Buells but it just ain't right. | ||
| Raymaines |
I'd go for the machine every time! I don't really care if it says Yamaha or HD on the tank. A few months ago I went on record as saying I didn't care if a new VROD based sports bike was sold as a Buell or Dyna Glide Super Sport. It’s either good bike and a good bargain or it isn’t. I crumpled up my M2 three weeks ago and am now working my way through the insurance process. When I get a settlement check from the insurance company I'm going to buy the bike that stirs my soul the most and fits my budget the best. Last time around that was a Buell M2, next time might be different. I'll take the machine, you can have the logo. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
The machine, combined with the dealer/parts support and aftermarket support, and the existense of a strong enthusiast segment on the internet like here on Badweb..... | ||
| Snowdave |
This is not even a close call - the machine. Granted, I will go way out of my way to buy an American bike, but I don't care who's name is on it. I have also owned foreign bikes and currently lust after a Ducati - maybe the 998 will be cheaper once the 999 comes out, but in the end, the machine is the most important part. | ||
| Blake |
If Buell was licensed to sell Duc 999's with Buell logos on them, I'd buy one.  I'd like to buy one with a Duc logo on it too. Send money!  | ||
| Court |
I am pleased to announce the FIRST 2002 PATCH FINE of TWO (2) patches had been assessed against, is this justice or what, our own brave leader, BLAKE who is now the proud owner of TWO 2002 Team Elves Buell Bonne-ganza" pathces for that remark!  Justice is swift in the world of The Elves! Judge Court | ||
| Tricklidz |
Machine first. In over 30yrs of riding, I've owned plenty different brands ('cept Harley) First, it's gotta be different..Buell Second, it's gotta be a twin...Buell, Ducati ST2 Third, it's gotta have "SOUL"..Both. Steve | ||
| Buellzebub |
definitely machine first, i don't really give a care as to who builds it as long as it is a serious grin producer, is somewhat reliable, and can be leaned far enough over to drag yer elbows. | ||
| Blake |
Hey man, what V-Twin loving sportbiker could pass up a Duc racer with friendly ergonomics. | ||
| Mikej |
A name on the tank is like makeup on a face, washes off in the rain and you'd better like what's behind it when it does.  | ||
| Jmartz |
V-twin, good looks decent power, name brand after that. The Duc 999 is very nice, I think I'll get one when that come out. At 20K out the door its going to take a lot of work to convince mt wife though. | ||
| Raymaines |
I think that everyone on the BadWeB that says they would buy the Machine is right. You guys would! I'm convinced your right. But..... I swear that the typical Harley dude and/or dudette that I see stuffing their faces with free donuts on Saturday mornings at the local HD shop would say they would buy the Machine but would actually buy the Nameplate. I mean, they don't even know what the heck they're riding let alone why they’re ridding it. If a Yamaha V-Star had a Harley badge on it they would be riding the V-Star and would still have that same shit head “Proud To Be Loud” attitude. All they can tell you is “If I have to explain it, you wouldn’t understand” but they couldn’t explain why they ride if they wanted to. All of us here could explain why we ride and why we ride what we ride, but the poser couldn’t. The difference between them and us is that they’re posers and we’re riders. Riders ride machines and posers eat free donuts and run their mouth. We ride Buells, Ducatis, Triumphs, Yamahas, Suzuki’s, KTM's, BMW'S, Hondas and any other bike we can get our leg over but posers need a logo. They need the status that comes with the logo. Witness the patches on our jackets. Mostly the riders don’t have patches. We’re too busy riding to sew patches on our jackets but the posers really want you to know what brand of bike they ride, what club they belong to and what rides they’ve been on. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Ray, Actually I don't think it's the name plate with the HD crowd.
BINGO! Art Friedman kind of missed the point. It's not the logo on the bike, it's where the bike is from. It's Nationalism, pure and simple. If Yamaha was the AMERICAN company with the 100 year history and Harley Davidson was the Japanese company, they would all be riding Vstars and Road Stars and eating donuts every Saturday at the Dealer. What it really boils down to is that Americans want to ride an AMERICAN bike. If you want an American Cruiser, you can also get a Victory (nice new bike, btw), Indian, Bourget, Big Dog, Confederate, et al. Victory is just starting to flex their muscles, once the bikes get a make over and the dealership network expands, look out! Their advertising plays heavily to the fact that they are the OTHER AMERICAN motorcycle company. American Sport Bike riders really want to buy an AMERICAN SPORT BIKE. Right now, somebody wanting to buy an AMERICAN sport bike has no choice other than BUELL. If Buell didn't think nationalism was an important marketing tool, AMERICAN MOTORCYCLES would not be a part of their new logo. Part, if not most, of Buells owners will ultimately admit that the fact that it is an AMERICAN SPORTBIKE was a large part of the reason that they bought it, not for the price, the specs or the features, or the concept or the person behind it. The fact that it was available at your local HD dealer and shared many parts with sportsters was another major plus. The vast nationwide dealer network also helped your piece of mind when you went on a long trip. I know it was for me. For a lot of people the only reason they have put up with the recalls, the breakdowns and the other "joys" of Buell ownership is because we're supporting an AMERICAN company. Riders that don't place as much important in where the bike is from are more likely to buy those other brands, based on whatever criteria are important to them (price, performance, dealer network, reliability, etc). But deep down, they would rather ride and AMERICAN bike. The day Victory, Dan Gurney, or someone else comes out with another American Sport Bike, and it proves to be reliable and offer performance for a good price, how many of us here will jump ship? BTW, our Dealer (HD/B of Ft. Washington, MD) sets up a grill and has burgers, hot dogs and sausages every Saturday! We're spoiled. | ||
| Mikej |
 Bummer, I can't eat the free donuts anymore....  | ||
| Jmartz |
José: I think you need to give up the fight. Buell is not likely to release a competitive sport bike anytime soon. With the average age of HD owner climbing every year (like Oldmobile and Buick) it appears that the company is using its subsidiary to attract younger people into motorcycling and their products. That must be the reason they are focusing on handling and chassis innovation and not on performance and market competitiveness. For my part I'm done with the brand. In a few the months the old dirty bird will be retired. I've waited 7 years for something with a bit more power and Buell's message is clear, they are not giving it to me. This weekend I'm putting a depososit for a new 999. | ||
| Blake |
JM, You ever do track days? I'm not talking about a spectator lap or Battle Trax; I'm talking about full on, all out track days. You get that new Duc 999, you darn well better start! Have you seen the MO review of the Aprilia Tuono? Too bad only 50 are slated for import to our great nation (only 200 total production, at least for 2003). | ||
| José_Quiñones |
José THe 999 is NICE, but I'm waiting to see what KTM, and possibly Yamaha and Suzuki, come up with in the V-Twin naked/sportbike segment. I'm reminded of Winston Churchill (thanks to the Iron Maiden song "Aces High" :
Besides, I sold my Sportster, I'm down to the Buell now. I have Linda's Virago 535 as my "backup". I don't know what to get next, but I keep hearing "Aprilia Futura" in my sleep. | ||
| Blake |
"I think you need to give up the fight. Buell is not likely to release a competitive sport bike anytime soon." Which sport bike was it that won the recent FUSA Supersport race at Loudon? | ||
| Jmartz |
Blake: I have made several attemps hera at Road Atlanta but they require a one piece riding outfit, a DOT/Snell helmet and 90% tire tread. I sometimes meet the tire treat requirement but repeatedly fail on the other 2. Frankly, I'm tired of saying "your bike might ouperform mine but I'll get you in the curves with my superior riding ability". For once I want the bike to do it w/o on its own. | ||
| Jmartz |
José: It is a very difficult thing to relinquish your sword but one must be realistic when the battle is lost. You and me and many others desperatly want and American sport bike with a competitive heart. Not necessarily a monster 150 HP, 200 mph but something that will make the average rice rider think twice. I will keep my eyes open for the next major product from Buell and hope that I am in a finacial position to aqcuire it when released. In the meantime I must bid farewell and ride the next best thing, an overpriced and underpowerd (for its price), high maintenance Italian V-twin. | ||
| Mikej |
"...I must bid farewell ..." Reminds me of a story. When I was a kid a neighbor buddy was moving away. They were getting in their car to leave, house all packed up, about to be gone. I said "see you later". His sister jumped all over me about that, said they were moving to the other side of the mountains, and would not be back later, and that I should say goodbye instead. I just shrugged, said see ya later again, and walked thru the gate to my yard. One year later they moved back, to the very same house. His sister just glared at me as they got out of the car as though she was saying "how did you know that". Jmartz, "see ya later". | ||
| Sarodude |
I'm not posing a suggested course of action but merely some opinions and observations... Buy American: I could be wrong, but the USA was at least partly founded on the free market principle - right? By blindly buying American to do nothing other than to support an American company, you may be defeating the purpose of the free market and you may allow a potentially inferior product and its producer to flourish to the detriment of the consumer. It MIGHT seem that blindly buying American would serve to undermine the entire (economic) point of the USA. FWIW, we own two HDs and one Buell and no other bikes. a Real American Sport Bike: Here's the deal - If you want more ANYTHING out of the XB, I believe you cannot ask for it until you show up at a track with a Buell pseudo-factory racer and match his laptimes - or at least come within some respectable percentage - on equal machines set up to your liking. Yeah, anyone can squeeze the XB for all it's worth in a straight line - the thing the bike (ar any sportbike) ISN'T REALLY MADE FOR. HD makes a fine straight line machine already. Can we just get over the comparisons and either BUY or NOT BUY the stinkin' bike? Personally, I will NOT buy. In order of importance: 1) Too little skill on my part 2) Too many bikes in our too small stable 3) Not enough disposable income to justify a $10K bike that will plummet in value -Saro | ||
| Blastin |
It is one of my rules to never say "good bye".(It's also a Bon Jovi song that took on greater meaning a few years ago) It's just too final. I always say "see ya later", "catch ya later", etc. Jmartz, "see ya later" keep that S1 running and give it a good flogging once in a while otherwise it won't feel loved. I firmly believe that their will be a firebreathing beast from Buell in the future and we can go ride the twisties in SouthWestern Wisconsin scaring cows and avoiding gravel again. Jerry | ||
| Jmartz |
We will ride in SW WI Jerry and Mikej... I vist the state regularly and most definitely I'll be there for the 100th anniversary. I have no plans to ever part with the S1. When I 1st laid eyes on the design I was and remain captivated by its style and ingenuity. I will make sure that it is properly stored so it preserves well in time. Although it was not until December that I would stop using the S1, Its been essentially retired since about a month ago. It will be street legal still for a while though. |
