| Author | Message | ||
     Wardog3187 |
motorcycle helmet laws. Should there be one across the board or leave it up to the individual motorcyclist to decide? After a quick web search, I see it varies from state to state. This is for my English 101 class. It's better than the abortion issue which is equated to walking into a mine field blind with clown shoes on. | ||
| Tramp |
at least with helmet laws, the law of natural selection works. people who make a stupid decision have greater odds of dying and thereby not reproducing and creating more idiots. abortion, unfortunately, does not take into account the intellect of the fetus, but instead randomly kills him/her. this is unnatural and goes against all laws of nature. | ||
| Cruisin |
Personal opinion: It shouldn't be a law. It should be my choice. I'll wear one because I know the benefits of it. The gov't should get people to wear it through education, not through force. | ||
| Whodom |
It's a potentially sticky issue: 1- Everyone should have the freedom to do what they want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Therefore, no helmet laws. 2- However, everybody pays insurance and taxes, and when someone is killed or maimed due to not wearing a helmet, everyone's insurance and taxes go up. Therefore, have helmet laws. 3- However, motorcycles are demonstrably more dangerous to their pilots than are cages, so when a motorcyclist is killed or maimed, everyone's insurance and taxes go up. Therefore, outlaw motorcycles. And on and on... I think you've got to draw the line somewhere, and therefore I stick with no. 2 above, require motorcycle helmet laws. While undesirable, they are a necessary evil to limit the cost to society for allowing people to ride motorcycles. | ||
| Chainsaw |
40,000 people died last year in car wrecks in the US vs. 3600 bikers. I think everyone in a cage should wear a full face helmet. Drivers wouldn't be distracted by shaving, appling make-up, eating and the like. If we can save just one life... No mandatory law unless it applies to all motorists. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
I am against helmet laws. I have been wearing a helmet since about 1957, long before any helmet laws, if memory serves. I wear a helmet to protect myself. If someone else doesn't want to wear one, that is their decision to live dangerously. OK with me. Same as their decision to join the Army, ride a motorcycle, go skydiving, or any other dangerous sport. I can't see a governmental role in making these decisions. Of course politicians do a lot of stupid things. Helmet laws are just one of them. As far as dumb laws go, it is very far from the worst. But it is a wrongful intrusion into peoples lives. I have never seen any facts and figures of the cost to society of a motorcycle fatality, and I don't expect to. The reason: there isn't much of a cost, if any. Like many such stories put forward by our elected officials, it is largely fanciful. Please be forwarned that if you try any of these ideas out on your English teacher, you are risking getting a low grade: there is absolutely nothing that is less welcome in academia now a days than common sense, plain talking and a desire to be free from unnecessary government controls. | ||
| Tramp |
i love a thread that makes me think, and makes me see new aspects of an issue. this is one of those threads. good lookin out, wardog! | ||
| Mikej |
When talking about helmet laws, or other safety laws, ask yourself one question: why are there no seatbelts in school buses, except for the driver? There are mandatory seatbelt laws, but school buses are exempt. Save the kids, except when it comes to school buses then save a buck. Now, helmets are a different matter. If you require helmets shouldn't you also require gloves and jackets and boots and other protective gear? Just last night I saw a guy wearing a full face helmet and shorts and no gloves and a t-shirt while riding a sportbike, and this was in a helmet optional state. Is your issue about helmets, or about mandated safety equipment? | ||
| CJXB |
The gov't should get people to wear it through education, not through force. I agree, I always wear a helmet but I do other things that aren't real smart. If the government determines motorcyclists should wear helmets for safety purposes, insurance costs etc. then where do you draw the line. What about people who smoke, who don't exercise regularly, who are obese, who are in abusive relationships and get the crap beat out of them on a regular basis etc. My opinion is that education is the best option, I want to be the best person I can and make the best decisions I can, but I don't want the government telling me I must !! | ||
| Skyguy |
I am with tramp and chainsaw. Protecting people from themselves only increases the chances of stupid people breeding. As for the arguement of limiting the cost of motorcycle accidents on society I agree. However, I think based on that logic and fairness to ALL of society everyone should wear a helmet at ALL times. Here is my short list of activities that in all fairness to society should require helmet use. 1. Anyone that has a know medical condition that may result in a seizure 2. Driving a car, boat or any other watercraft. 3. Flying in any kind of aircraft. 4. While drinking alcohol anywhere. 5. Showering or bathing (lots of head injuries). 6. Walking/running/jumping anywhere other than a foam lined room. You get the point. Also lets look at it this way ; If 3,600 motorcyclists died last year how many would have lived needing lots of medical treatment if they had been wearing a helmet? The real answer is affordable health care for everyone. Not more safety laws. Fact of the matter is it would be cheaper for society to provide AFFORDABLE heath insurance for everyone than to suffer the burden of 40 million uninsured Americans than not to. Because of my chosen profession I can not come close to affording heath insurance and therefor I am a burden to society if injured severly. I don't like it, I wish I could do something about it but I can't (especially at $3.00 for a gallon of gas). And yes I have always worn a helmet even before the law required it. | ||
| Midknyte |
I live in a state (IL) where it is not mandatory. I appreciate the choice, though nearly always wear one. I would favor a graduated law. i.e. under 25 = helmet req or such. But that would probably give rise to more stops to check age & papers... bah... A first bike cc limit would probably help the most, but that is another subject... | ||
| Buelluk |
I have to agree with Mikej on the selectivity of some laws. In CT, I don't have to wear a helmet but I do through choice, however eye protection is mandatory...my own personal point of view is that i wear a helmet because i think it is a good idea and I also take into consideration that Armco barriers, concrete medians and curbs don't give a toss about your civil rights Education is the best way forward, in the last week I have heard of two couple's families permanently damaged by bike accidents, in one accident both died and were wearing helmets, in the other both are surviving but on life support ..no helmets and alcohol had a large part to play. | ||
| Smitty808 |
I always wear mine...but it should be left to the rider. Just as seatbelt use should be (I wear that too). I think these laws stand more as a way to put money into small government's pockets, than them looking out for our safety. | ||
| Midknyte |
yeah, that's an odity here. No helmet law, yet we do have seatbelt law. cagers can live to kill again, yay | ||
| Blake |
Freedom to be stupid is freedom. Living under laws that purport to directly protect people from themselves is not freedom, it is oppression. Pretty simple. | ||
| Jackbequick |
I wear a helmet because it makes sense to me. I feel it helps me to better protect myself from injuries that are most likely to result from the actions of others. Same with clothing, shoes, etc. I have insurance and I have a health plan. If I am injured, health care will not be a drain on any public funds. The cost of my care will default to either the person responsible for my injuries, my uninsured motorist insurance, my health plan, or myself. I consider it unfair and irresponsible to ask others to pay for any consequences resulting from your driving style or habits. Or from just plain bad luck. Insurance would prevent that from happening. So all this sort of boils down to not wearing a helmet is okay if you can handle the consequences. It might be a good idea of every motorcycle rider wore a helmet for the first 2 or 3 years after licensing. Is there a practical way to make this (relieving the public of any financial burden) an accepted part of the process of getting a driver's license? For any kind of motor vehicle? Seems like it would be better for everyone if you could. Jack | ||
| Light_keeper |
How many automobile accidents cause injuries to uninsured motorests who also do not have health insurance and who then become a burden on the rest? I live in a no helmet law state, in fact yet again anotherone was brought up last winter and defeated. I infact went and gave my support for it's defeat. I do wear a helmet gloves etc.. I do believe in the right to choose. Let those who ride decide. | ||
| Tramp |
"Freedom to be stupid is freedom. Living under laws that purport to directly protect people from themselves is not freedom, it is oppression. Pretty simple."  | ||
| Frausty_void |
Nothing worse than some pen pushing bureaucrat, dictating more laws to protect myself, from... myself. I say where it if you want, don't if you don't. In the end, you're the only one who has to live, or die by your decision. I agree that if it were in fact a mandatory law for motorcyclists, it should be as well for the cagers. It would surely put an end to those weaving phone conversations, drive-thru food eating, yelling at kids in the back seat, make-up putting on, hairstyling, non driving people. Also, if people were made to prepare for a drive, by putting on a helmet, perhaps they'd pay a bit more attention to the road, and less on minor distractions. | ||
| Blake |
As I peruse my cell phone bill and my cable TV bill and my water/sewage bill and my electric bill... and I see the preposterous myriad of taxes and government imposed fees (really just more taxes), I wonder what America's founding fathers would have said had they foreseen the insidious level to which Americans today are forcibly enslaved by our government. Remember, these are the same men who supported a bloody revolution over a relatively benign tax on a beverage. Is that PC? Freedom? That's a joke. When my government forces me to put up to 15% of my gross income into a mandatory security fund that yields a whopping 2.5% rate of return, IF I live long enough to collect it, I think freedom has pretty much flown the coup. Income tax Socialist tax Property tax Sales tax Gasoline tax Electricity tax School tax Water tax Driver's tax Phone tax Cable TV tax Booze tax Tobacco tax And some folks want to try to take away my firearms? | ||
| Blake |
Sorry. WAY off topic. Please return to the helmet law discussion. | ||
| Tramp |
he*l...taxing us like that, they'd BETTER get their mealy li'l meathooks on our firearms.... (when they show up to collect the legally-registered stuff...you know...the weatherby, the enfield, the mod. 94, etc., put up a good struggle so's they don't suspect the SAR's under the floorboard of the shop, and the AK's up in the rafters..... | ||
| Frausty_void |
LMAO, I gotta meet you tramp.. I can see you now, machining perfect "rests" so the wooden stocks of the Ak's match the grain of the rafters... in seriousness (and we can return to our regularly schedule thread after this brief message..) the day they take our firearms will either be the day they take our country, or the day WE take our country back. (Message edited by frausty_void on August 17, 2005) | ||
| Joemama |
well Tramp, now they will! | ||
| Eor |
Helmets not required by law here in AR, but I always wear one. I am opposed to helmet laws. Actually I am opposed to almost all laws whose purpose is to protect me from myself. | ||
| 2hogs |
PA revised it's helmet law a while back making it the riders choice if they meet certain criteria. I can't say I wear mine all the time I don't. IF I'm putting around after work I don't wear mine unless I'm going out of PA. Commuting on the Baltimore beltway? I would even if MD wasn't mandatory. Too many cages driving way too fast and most are distracted in some way (cell phone, reading the paper, etc). Mandatory helmet laws won't protect us from the biggest risk we face out there ---> CRAZY CAGE Drivers :-) | ||
| Iamike |
Tramp - I love ya man! A good friend lost their 16 year-old daughter last year in a car roll over due to a head injury. Should they require all car drivers to wear helmets? The reason they don't require school busses to use seatbelts (this was a study I read about) was due to the closeness of the seats. With just a lap belt the kids would angle forward and break their necks on the seat in front. Also can you guess how hard it would be to make them all buckle up? | ||
| Bcordb3 |
I believe it should be personal choice to wear a helmet or not, with exception. This touchy, I believe that children (you decide the age) should be required to wear helmets that fit properly. A child doesn't have the choice of saying if they want to wear a helmet because most children don't know/realize what could happen to them. I know that Rhode Island has a law that requires all passengers to wear a helmet. The operator over a certain age has the option to wear or not to wear helmets. Comparing what can happen to someone in a car or on a motorcycle isn't the question asked. Proper seat belts, secureed baby seats addresses that problem. I will also say that I am for all bicyclist be required to helmets. | ||
| Tramp |
back atcha, mike. i always wondered about the seatbelt thing with schoolbusses. so...i think Blake made the perfect summation with: "Living under laws that purport to directly protect people from themselves is not freedom, it is oppression." PS- all my really fun weapons are slathered in cosmelene and oilcloth, in big screw-top sonar buoys, four feet undergound in the iron-ore rich hills of my hometown, with all the spaces filled with loose ammo and powerbars.... and remember "Tip From Trampoise" # 448: If you can't purchase a sonar buouy, just but a nice 4' section of heavy threaded ABS Pipe and two endcaps. use ABS cement on the threads of one end, and silicone dielectric grease on the threads of the other, for easier opening after years underground in iron-rich earth. detection is much more difficult in that stuff! If you can't find cosmelene, regular vaseline is fine, as long there are no plastic parts on your weapon. Don't forget to give the bore a good wd-40 coating, then plug both ends of IT! remember, kids... a well-greased weapon is a well-preserved weapon  | ||
| Henrik |
Here's a thought; there has been debates here about whether driving/riding is a right or a privilege. If driving/riding is a privilege, and retaining that privilege is dependent on abiding by the laws of traffic. Then why would a helmet law be any different? I don't really care about helmet laws either way. I wear all gear all the time. Of course I'd hate to see these laws turn into "motorcycle airbags", GPS monitoring of speed and relative position of vehicles etc. etc. Tough call. Henrik |
