| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
Can't say how I heard it, but I heard that Buell's profit numbers have been sliding steadily and if it keeps up Buell might be history. The large inventorys of XB9Rs sitting in showrooms, combined with the leftover tube-frame bikes, make me VERY nervous. I am not an employee of the motor company, just a Buell owner and fan who hears things thru the grapevine that were not meant for my ears. I don't know what I'd do if Buell bit the dust. I'm pretty bummed out about this. Is this a possibility? Court???? | ||
| Anonymous |
I don't think that the demise of Buell M.C. will be the slipping sales. For example the local dealerships here are charging a "premium" for bike like the XB9R cause, "Every one wants them." and one of my fav. reasons it is a 2003 it is a 100 yeah aniversary model." Funny last time i seen Erik he wasn't that old and if so DAMN he ages well. I feel the down fall of Buell will be the lack of support from big mama H-D down sizing in production, model lines and picking Buells suppliers. I feel Erik and a few others should buy back Buell from H-D just like H-D did from AMF in the 80's. I would love to see that. Then imagine the Buell models we would see with out the watchfull eye of "Big Brother" may be we could see a re-in carnation of the RW750 but with a 4 stroke. The posibilities are endless. But... what does Harley care, they do enough with there big old man bikes (no offense to H-D owners out there) don't get me wrong great bikes, but look at honda they have a car company for Christ sake. H-D needs to put a little more trust in Erik and Co. to carry that side of the deal. | ||
| Sarodude |
On a possibly related note, is there any truth to HD dealerships telling me that in order to increase their allocation of bikes (past some magic number) that they need to take on Buells? I've heard this on a couple of occasions from different dealerships. These dealers tend to be FAR less than enthusiastic about the entire Buell thing. This could explain lots of issues - or it could be total hogwash. -Anonysaro | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Well, I "was told" that East Coast HD/Buell in Dumfries, Va moved to a new building partly financed by HD, and taking on BUells was part of the deal for HD to help with the financing. | ||
| Andrew |
Pretty much what the local dealer said here as well. They'll be opening their new facility and taking on Buell in the fall. | ||
| Socal |
Buell ROCKS. That would seriously suck if they went under. | ||
| Two_Buells |
2003 is Buell's 20th year  .....1983 RW-750 | ||
| Court |
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| Tripper |
damn kansan  | ||
| Elvis |
Buell is a critical component to Harley Davidson's long term business plan. To suggest otherwise is pandering to a few disgruntled, shortsighted, lazy, rumor mongering dealers who can't see past tomorrow's paycheck. Get over it. (Sorry for the rant, but I think it needs to be said in the midst of such silliness.) | ||
| Anonymous |
"Ad Astra Per Aspera" What The?(translation needed) | ||
| Anonymous |
According to Google: “Ad Astra Per Aspera” translates into "to the stars through difficulties." (your computer will allow you to conduct non-pornographic searches) | ||
| Buellbob |
Elvis I agree completely. Buell gives H/D something they can't or won't build themselves , a true H/D powered sportbike. I am blessed here in Beautiful B.C., the dealer I bought the bike from was great, they delivered the bike to my door step after I bought it, they are a 4hr. drive away. My local dealer, Deeleys House of Buell, is also excellent. I do most of my own work but when I need info and such they are very helpful. I truly feel bad for Buellers who have had such a hard time with their dealers. Bob  | ||
| Pilot |
I thought the motto for Kansas is "First of the Rectangle States" like the motto for New York is"You have the right to remain silent,You have the right to a attorney" California's is "Our women have more plastic than your Honda" North Carolina's is "Tobacco is a vegetable" My wife has just shown me a book"The best & worst of internet humour E-Tales. | ||
| Mikej |
I thought Ketsup was a vegetable. | ||
| Jmartz |
If Buell closes its doors it will be a result of their inability to read the market. This great man EB with his vision has done wonders for HD. It would be a shame if the name brand and concept were to disappear. The tube frame bikes were quite successful and the development of the Sportster powerpland nothing short of spectacular. Repackaging the motor into a new case and using it to power the XB concept is IMHO what might actually seal their fate. The brand needs a market competitive model with Buell uniqueness (ie. the XB) but with a bit more modern mechanics or at least more displacent to compensate. | ||
| Court |
Buell, both Erik and the Company, have survivied adversity through the years to which the current challenges pale. Buell, both the business and the fellow, have more appeal to the 10 year Harley-Davidson strategic business model than ever. Harley-Davidson could survive without Buell but would risk the loss of well, being less than they could. The profits that Buell brings to the Harley-Davidson party are important but are not paramount in the way Buell fits the Harley-Davidson family. Harley-Davidson needs, constrained by corporate inertia, owner and public perception and convention,to find a way to evolve technically while creating a package that appears not to have evolved technically to the H.O.G. world. In a world that promises increasingly more restrictive emission, both acoustic and exhaust, standards and more government intervention, Harley-Davidson must breed a group of people and a haven that can be, in the words I have described it since 1995, "mobile, agile and hostile". The Buell Firebolt XB9R is the first tangible evidence that this can happen. The Firebolt brings to the dealers showroom innovation that is without equal in the industry. If you could see the development team behind the bike, you'd be even more excited. The Team is literally overflowing with excitment about not only what they have done but how they have done it. Buiel engineers and employees are, for the first time, in waiting queues awaiting Firebolts. The bike interests me but not to the level of purchase. The process, as a study in inovative collaboration, has absolutely captivated me. I've been here many times with Buell and I can feel something great happening. The numbers, granted, do not support the conquering of the classic MR>MC economic model, but the concept is a piece of gifted genius on the part of Jeff Bleustein and several others. Jeff has walked to the end of the branch and sawed for Buell, he will again, he believes and can see the future. Harley-Davidson, while embracing black leather chaps and the classic sound, must get to know the future and nibble at taking some risks. Question: If you were going to do something risky (new suspension, HPVS induction, closed loop EFI, perimeter rim braking) would you prefer to risk a misstep on 1,100 Buells or 100,000 Sportsters? If you HAVE to correct something, which mess is easier to clean up and results in the least owner alienation. Which owner has a higher capacity? Right or wrong, I believe it short sighted to judge what Buell contributes to Harley-Davidson in terms of "profit" alone. If this were the case in other industries Kelly Johnson would have spent many more years on unemployment. I've been the first to slap the Buell group upside the head and I'm also the first to admit when I am wrong (fairly frequently) and the first to give the thumbs up when things go well. In the 15 years I've been hanging around watching, I have never been more excited or enthusiastic about the future of Buell and the material that Erik Buell has in his cognative inventory. Erik is, first and foremost, a nice person. Beyond that he's a gifted individual with dreams. The world of Buell has a disproportionate number of gifted individuals. What motorcycle bulletin board includes discussions of patents granted this week and mathematical arguments about traction conducted by folks who engineered the B-2 bomber. Buells are a magnet to folks who march to drums others can't hear. The potential, when these folks collaborate, is beyond the wildest imagination. I'm going, once again, to suggest that anyone who struggles with this concept read "Organizing Genius". Buell has a bright future and I'd bet on it. Court Canfield | ||
| Anonymous |
They are not going to illuminate this future with a 75 HP motor... | ||
| Blastin |
Will everyone just get over the horsepower thing, and just ride!!!! Most importantly, RIDE YOUR OWN "RIDE". | ||
| Gravedigger |
Court, With upmost respect for Buell and Buell manufacturing, I think that most Buell riders distrust is aimed towards Harley Davidson not Buell. The key question of this post is derived from several differents issues that Buell owners are facing. They are sick of dealing with individual HD dealers that generally don't care about the Buell line of bikes or are poorly trained in repair of our bikes. They are sick of the amount of time it takes HD dealers to get in parts when they need them. This is not a general statement as there are several very good dealers that genuinely care about the Buell line. Unfortunately there are way too many that just don't. There is also the fear that HD will continue its current habits. When HD is unsucessful or something they are doing becomes stagnite they tend to drop that agenda and retract back into the cruiser market. VR1000 superbike program come to mind? Drop the program use the information they learned and place it in a cruiser. (to an extent) Is this Buells future with HD? These types of issues lead to this type of speculation. I do not think the end is near for Buell. Buell will survive, in what form or size is yet to be seen. There are a hardcore group of Buell owners that will support Erik Buell in whatever form the company ends. This fact can be seen by the diversity and large number of members within this very site. They have set the right platform for the future of the company. Whether or not the fickle motorcycle market accepts it is another matter. Keith | ||
| V2win |
The first Buell I saw and wanted was a S2. I ended up with a S3T in 97. I wanted a bike that could do it all. It does. Most of the fellow Buellers I know are not that young. They too wanted a bike they could ride hard in the twisties and still tour if needed. These new bikes are for the kids that now ride 600's. To only produce the XB9R,S and Blast (a lawn mower with no blade I heard someone call it) is not enough to make Buell interesting to me. Harley has abandoned the original customers with the new Buell lineup. I will keep riding my S3T until it becomes too worn out and then buy another bike that can do it all. Hopefuly Buell will have a sportourer out by then. It's sad. When I was a kid, "made in the USA" ment the best there was for the most part. Still does for some items. Wish it did for motorcycles. | ||
| Gravedigger |
John, I think that a sport tourer is probably in the makings as we speak. just seems to be the next logical step for the new platform of bikes. they allready have thier replacement for the m2 in the xb9r. They just came out with thie replacement for the x1 in the xb9s. s3t=xb9st????? just my thoughts. | ||
| Mikej |
Just curious, two questions, the Buell engineer who recently gave notice, 1) Did he co-author a book?, 2) Is he moving on within the corporation or is he moving on to a totally new venue? Again, just curious. | ||
| Court |
1) Did he co-author a book? NO 2) Is he moving on within the corporation or is he moving on to a totally new venue? Fabulous new challenge. And, frankly, it's no state secret either. It's Bret Schaller, arguably the Fahter of the Buell S-1 Lighting. His wife, a former racer herself, has just become Dr. Schaller and the two Schalettes are starting to grow up. I DO NOT know any of the details. I do know that Bret has been instrumental in Buell history and we all owe his a debt of gratitude. He's an Embry Riddle graduate, talented engineer and has worked, likely, about 2.4 more hours that he'd been paid for. He, most certainly, shares the passion that binds us. He's off to the Carolina's and a spectacular newe challenge. One of the attirbutes of a "project" that differentiates ot from a "process" is that it has a finate beinning and a finite end. Knowing when your time to leave has come is an art and in no way, shape or form should be construed as imputing \any advesity. Bret is a friend to all of us and I wish him well. Court | ||
| Mikej |
Thank you for the followup. And thanks for the story too. There are definitely times to move on in life, and definitely there should be no hard feelings. Life goes on. May his new endeavors be as well received and admired as his past ones. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
This is no longer true because of the VROD.
First, they only make about 50,000 Sportys a year. minor point. But isn't producing and selling 8,000 plus watercooled bikes so far this year for the first time in you history is pretty freaking risky? How many XB's will be produced and sold this year, 5 maybe 6 thousand? They are on track for producing and SELLING about 16,000 VRODS at $17,000+ a piece. If they followed your logic wouldn't that engine seen the light of day in a Buell first? How about the Hydroformed frame? The anodized aluminum bodywork? Buell is definetly a "skunk works" outlet for HD, but when the payoff looks good, HD keeps it for itself, it seems to me. Internal Politics. The "Sportbike buyers market" wants a bike powered by an engine that is perceived as "modern" Whether it is in fact "modern" is open for debate, but the REVOLUTION has that perception, and that's what attracts people that are usually buying imports towards the VRSC family instead of the Buell family. The sales numbers tell the tale. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
V2win, how is this:  | ||
| Anonymous |
Court, I love your eternal optimism. Really I do. I am a Buell cheerleader too. But... If the new models clog showroom floors and Buell is not a profitable entity for H-D, I cannot see how Buell's future could be assured. No matter what EB or Bleustein says, H-D has an obligation to its shareholder to make as much profit as possible. If Buell is a drain on that profit and the brand does not find its legs, what would you do as the CEO of the Motor Company? How many of us have dealers with multiple XBs on the showroom floor with no buyers? I know mine does, and they are a very Buell-friendly dealership. Maybe if the XB was $8000 it would get more interest. | ||
| Court |
>>>If they followed your logic wouldn't that engine seen the light of day in a Buell first? That is an accurate statement......  , as Court Records will attest. Look closely as the engineering team and methods. Ask yourself why name like my old roomate, Dan Grein, show up assocaited with the XB. Hmmmmmmm...... Harley-Davidson, you'd gather from reading these boards, is composed short sighted folks lacking in business acumen. My Dad invested all he could, at $9 a share, when he sold his major construction business. He and Erik Buell met and got along well. Dad was a visionary and created a legend, as was my Grandfather (first UPC scanner in a grocery store, first "warehouse" grocery store)and I learned why his eyes lit up when he spoke to Erik. Dad never, as a shareholder, complained about the eventual fate of those shares. >>>H-D has an obligation to its shareholder to make as much profit as possible. This could move this to a "short term" (defined as <12 months OR the current accounting period)or "long term" discussion. You are, in every respect, correct. My portfolio is not profitable at present (and that's a HUGE understatement), I do not intend to alter it's composition one bit. Court | ||
| Lake_Bueller |
1) Vtwin: I'm in agreement with you. The first Buell I saw was a 1998 S3T. I bought that bike within 30 minutes of seeing it 2) I've been told (by a couple of dealership owners) that Buell is the "training grounds" for H-D. That would seem to be consistant with what Court was saying. 3) I also have spoken with a dealer that DROPPED the Buell line in 1999 because they're conceived (wink, wink) as being unreliable. The funniest part about that....this same dealer LOVES to tinker with my bike! He's even offered me a job selling Buells when he decides to bring the line back into his store. 4) As for the future of Buell...it will be there (in some form) until Erik gives up the ghost. Even is H-D bails, I believe Erik will go back to his roots. He'll continue to follow the dream of making the world's most innovative sportbikes (and make them in America ) Mennis 1998 S3T |
