| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
When my tires start to slide, that's a pretty good indication that I'm very near "the edge". | ||
| Mikej |
My understanding of suspension is that it's to keep the tires in contact with the road surface, and also to help control the weight transfer of the bike and rider. Too stiff and the tires chatter, too loose or soft and the bike gyrates all over the place. Top out or bottom out the suspension and you loose traction and control quickly. Perfect suspension would be in a constant state of readjustment as the road conditions warranted. Isn't that sort of what the intent was of the RR front suspension? | ||
| Buelliedan |
Yep, two very different opinions but actually thinking alike. Ferris, take the best rear shock in the world. Hook it up to a totally rigid frame with no side flex built into it or the swingarm and try taking a turn at speed. I don't think you would like what happens. Your analysis of a highside is correct but missing parts. Answer this, why does the bike violently flip over once it gets traction? We have lots of physics involved in all this, much more than I am qualified to talk about. | ||
| Ferris |
BuellieDan, we DO have a lot in common, as i am the world's WORST person to try and prove a point using actual, proven scientific laws. (anybody wanna hear my views on tire contact patches? yeah, i thought not..........) can't argue with you about the goods and bads of designed-in frame and swingarm flex, altho i read with interest everytime a new Japanese sportbike maker comes out with a new, high-zoot machine that either is A) MORE flexible than the previous version, to increase sportabilty, or B) LESS flexible than the previous version, to increase sportability. confusing to my addled little brain, but it sure seems to sell new motorcycles! the only point i was trying to make was my belief that the suspension IS working hard at full lean, but don't ask me to prove it  another point for Mr. Blomberg (altho probably not related to why your bike's rear tire is kicking out): it's also VERY important that both front and rear suspensions are set up to complement each other, rather than fight with each other. ever see a big Hog wobbling around a semi-high-speed corner, the pilot yanking back and forth on the bars trying to hold some semblence of a line? in addition to the fact that nothing on the bike was designed for agressive cornering in the first place, it's almost a certainty that the rear preload is maxed, and the front preload (if it's even adjustable) is not. sure makes for an evil handling scooter. and sure is fun to watch. ride to, well, you know FB | ||
| José_Quiñones |
 Nothing wrong with my 205's...... Jblomberg, I think what Blake said makes sense, but you also never answered my question about what you are doing with the throttle while you are in the turn. | ||
| Dynarider |
Im gonna tighten the suspension up a bit on my X1 before next weeks battletrax. It felt a little soft this time. Also, saved my ass from a highside during the same event. Came out of one of the corners & hammered it pretty good, the rear end slid out & then all of a sudden hooked up. The bike started going up & I just hammered the gas a little harder & made the tire slide again, then straightened it out & away I went. Just about shit my pants in the .5 seconds it all took. Also the reason the tire slipped was because we had been sitting for a while & I didnt give the tires long enough to heat up. Once they warm up the 205's stick great for me. Hell, the stock 207 I had slipped a lot more than this one ever does. Just takes longer for the 205's to warm up. | ||
| Ferris |
i've had decent luck w/205's, PROVIDING i let 'em get good 'n warm before putting the whip to 'em. up in Washington, which used to be home, this was REALLY important on those cold, wet, dreary days that Cuzzin' Bob cals Summer  i have a new set of 207's on the Interceptor. they've been on there less than two weeks, and have about 1500 miles on them (doing the CAL GP last weekend and Day Three of the All Cal BRAG ride this past Tuesday), and they're ALREADY down to the wear bars.....................on the sides! ride to scare your bad self, FB  | ||
| Dynarider |
Thats one of the reasons I didnt go with the 207's again. I get lousy mileage outta them. Only managed 4500 with the last one before it was basically a slick. Hope to get at least 7000 out of the 205. | ||
| Jblomberg |
Sorry Jose, I was riding with my friend who had just turned right through a yield sign when I saw oncoming traffic. I didn't want to lose him, so I leaned hard and gave it some gas, I don't think I was WOT, but it was enough to get goin, I know that. P.S. I'm leaving on a trip to KS and MO for a week tonight with my father, so I most likely won't be able to respond to any more comments for a while, unless you get them to me before I go to work today @ 1:00 pm Central time. Thanks to all, JBlomberg | ||
| Jblomberg |
There's always another question to ask, so here I go. When I let my bike warm up sitting in neutral, I tend to hear a clicking noise in the tranny similar to when I kick it down into 1st gear. Is there something loose in their that is causing gears to uneccessarily touch each other and grind? Keep in mind that I am learning, and I would like to be my own mechanic just like all 'yall, cuz sometimes I just don't have the money to let the guys at the dealer just go at it. thanks for the help. | ||
| Mikej |
Jb, On your primary cover there are two covers, one huge one with four screws that allows access to the clutch plates, and one smaller one with two screws that allow access to check the primary chain tension. Open up the smaller cover and see how much slack there is in the primary chain. If your bike is new then it's probably just chain slap you're hearing, new chains get lots of slack as they initially wear in (at least from what I've seen). Check your service manual, but it should have less than one inch of looseness, but should not have less than 3/8" (check that number in the manual) | ||
| Shot_Gun |
"When my tires start to slide, that's a pretty good indication that I'm very near "the edge"." Damn! I always wait till I'm on the ground before I find where the edge is. All this time I've been doing it wrong. A friend I rode dit bikes with said" If you ain,t wreckin, you ain't ridin" I go ridin about once a year.  Sorry, I know this doesn't help but most of us have been down that road. Sometimes on the bike sometimes off. SG | ||
| Blackbuellm2 |
Been thinking about this topic for a while…. As to why your tires in particular slide, I dunno. But I do know that when you start to slide on a street bike it’s a powerful puckering type of experience. And the first tendency for the vast majority of riders is to react, and react right now. Sadly that’s more oft then not the wrong thing to do. It’s the smooth steady transition to and from throttle settings and lean angles that will determine whether you remain in control or not. Having said that here’s my threefold suggestion for you to perhaps avoid a more serious situation… (1) Least expensive… Get yourself a copy of Keith Code’s book “A Twist of The Wrist” A book that’s worth it’s weight in gold (2) Take an MSF intro and advanced riding skills course. If at all possible follow up with liberal dose of track time. Battletrax is an awesome place to start. (3) Here’s the most expensive option…Purchase a dirt bike, quit your job and ride the wheels off of the thing. Once it become an extension of you and does what you want it to do second nature you will be well on your way to becoming a MUCH better street rider. | ||
| Blake |
Shotgun, If we ever ride together, please remind me to NEVER give you the inside line!  | ||
| Rick_A |
My S1 came with 6+ year old 205's with only 3000 miles on 'em. They were seriously hard and only gripped on hot days after they were flogged for a while. They were utterly horrible...that I found out after getting a new pair of 207's. I let a trusted friend ride the bike when I had the old tires on it...and he was constantly telling me I need to change tires 'cause they "looked bad". He just told me the truth recently...he had a good slide when he was out on it. I was pretty used to sliding around with little provocation...feels much better now. I found my limit last year. I guess I've found its better to take a slow turn fast than take a faster turn too fast! IMO suspension setup has much to do with a rider's weight and preference. It is always a compromise as someone already mentioned. | ||
| Shot_Gun |
Blake: HEHE chuckle chuckle, I wouldn't give me any line. Sometimes I'm down right dangerous.  You can ride with me after I've crashed for this year. Luckily buell parts are cheap. My 205's stuck good yesterday and avoided raming a car for the rear. I think some suspension work would let me ride the way I like. I've never touched either end so far. TGIF!!!! SG | ||
| Sportyeric |
If you were leaning across the white pavement markings at the yield sign you can expect the tires to slip. Those things can be nasty. | ||
| Blake |
Busy intersections often have a slippery residue. | ||
| Newfie_Buell |
to further Blake's comment. Especially during the first 5 or 10 min of rain. | ||
| Ken01mp |
i ride hard, i ride a lot. i like powerslides, i like 40mph burnouts, but i was racing today and the buell developed a SEVERE headshake at a buck and a quarter. she never, i mean never, scared me before, and today i was more scared than ever before in my life. moral of the story? my front 205 is shot after 6K. SO HELP ME GOD, i will never buy another dunlop again, cheap junk. i pity the fool that likes his 205s Ken | ||
| Blake |
Ken, You ride hard? Check. You race? Check. You go 125 mph? Check. You expect to get more than 6K out of a "Sport Touring" front tire?  The head shake is the worn out tire's fault? C'mon Ken, rather than badmouthing a perfectly good sport touring tire, would it maybe make sense for you to switch to a tire more appropriate to your riding/racing style? Or maybe just change your tires before they are worn out, at least if you decide to go racing? On the track, a new set of D205's is lucky to last 500 miles. You got 6,000 miles out of yours and are complaining and bashing them? Be honest here now; who is really the foolish one in this scenario? Great profile by the way. Thanks for taking the time to briefly outline your two wheeled biography. Thanks for serving our country. Be careful out there Marine. | ||
| Ken01mp |
the front tire is worn way unevenly (yes, properly inflated) im just used to getting way more mileage than that out of a front. although, now that its shot, it makes that cool chirping sound an airplane does when it lands when i come down from a wheelie, kinda neat. i had dunlops on my dirtbikes and on my rocket, and was satisfied, maybe im just expecting too much from the 205. either way, im an avon man, and i cant wait to get my azaro sports on there. | ||
| Newfie_Buell |
my front tire is doing the same thing. so whats up with that. | ||
| Blake |
Normal wear produces cupping on an aggressively ridden motorcycle tire. The tread will always cup on street tires when ridden aggressively. It is due to the tendency of the leading edge of a tread groove/block to peel back and wear away much faster than the trailing edge that can fold under and away from the road surface, thus avoiding getting scrubbed away so quickly. | ||
| Shot_Gun |
CW says that weight has something to do with it also. | ||
| Blake |
Yes, all else being equal, heavier bike will be harder on tires. | ||
| Buellnuts |
 Ferris, I love all 2 weeks of summer up here! Speaking of tires and suspension, most riders dont know whats right and who's to really say. If you follow people and really look at what they are doing, most people ride completely different. I prefer a fairly firm suspension but not stiff. As for frame rigidity, unless I'm on the Track, I dont think I can tell. I think that wear on tires (becoming more flat and cupped plus tire pressure )has more to do with illhandling machines than mear Suspension setups. My 2cents From The Rain Forest, Bob  | ||
| Spike |
I can't overlook a good dunslop-bashing.  My stock D205s cupped badly. If I let go of the bars above 45mph the bars would lightly wobble back and forth. I figured this was normal and it looked to be a result of hard braking. Also, the bike preferred to push the front tire rather than stoppie when hard on the brakes, even when warmed up. I almost threw it away at the end of a battletrax run because of this. I figured all this was normal since the D205 is more of a sport touring tire. My rear D205 was showing cord at 8k miles without ever having done a burnout, although the tire would occasionally spin when shifting hard into 2nd gear or trying to wheelie in 2nd gear with the clutch. After hearing good things about the new Metzeler M-1s I decided to give them a try. I was impressed immediately. The bike turned in much quicker and once scrubbed in the tires felt much more stable. The bike now stoppies easily and I don't think it ever spins the rear. I can comfortably drag the shifter/pegs/brake lever, so much in fact that I broke off the shifter on my way home yesterday. Admittedly the Metzelers won't last as long as the D205s but for this much more performance I'll gladly replace them more often. Also, the front Metzeler shows no cupping after 2500 miles. That being said, I've heard some very good things about the Bridgestone BT-010s, I might try a set of those next. Mike L. '99 Cyclone | ||
| Blake |
I've never had any trouble doing a stoppy on my D205's. I also ground the end of my shifter off in 5th gear riding the twisties. A wobble above 45 mph is not due to tire cupping. | ||
| Raymaines |
I've said before, I'll say again: I hated my stock D205's. I've got, like, zero experience with hot rod bikes with sticky and not so sticky tires and such but....... The change to Bridestone 010's was awsome! It was like day and night. BS010 is good. DL205 is bad. That said, I'm going to replace my BS 010 with a harder compound 020 when the "time is ripe" (to quote Miss Piggy). Pretty Tire Pictures |
