| Author |
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Lsr_Bbs
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 02:01 pm: | 
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1) the VR didn't even meet the initial homologation rules; AMA (and the other teams) looked the other way - it only got worse with time as there is a # of year per model, the VR was never updated as a model. Should never have been on the track after 3-4 years.
2) Honda + Suzuki + Kawasaki + Ducati = 4 factory teams. The VR was lucky to consistently place 10. (Yes, some of the other top teams get factory support; but they are *NOT* true factory teams).
3) ...uh, exactly how many podiums did the VR get in it's 'successful' 10 year career? (I'll check my roadracing world, but I'd safely hazard a guess of less than 10). Or, compre it's DNF % to any top 10 team.
4) At least in the early years of the program, they spent as much (or more, as was frequently rumored) as Honda and still were not competative.
5) The VR violated many of the superbike rules...the only reason the other teams didn't complain is that they still were not competative. Everyone (AMA and the other teams) wanted more competition from them and were willing to cut 'em some slack in the early years to get them there...still didn't help and only got worse as the years progressed.
6) On, and on....I'll spare everyone; Jose' and I have covered this stuff more than probably anyone here wants to hear about; search the archives.
============
If you want to find out what a truely successful and new racing campaign is...look to Aprilia's debut in superbike...that's success!
Neil Garretson
X0.5 |
Jssport
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 02:07 pm: |
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OK,.. well other than all that it was a complete success |
S320002
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 02:57 pm: |
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Anyone care to guess in which country the VR1000 was deemed street legal for homologation purposes?
Greg |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 02:59 pm: |
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It was Poland...Now what do I win? |
S320002
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 03:09 pm: |
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Dynarider,
How about a Polish sausage? Okay, your from Wisconsin I'll make that a brat.
Greg;-) |
1320
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 11:01 pm: |
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Anyone like to guess who actually developed the VR motor and subsequently the Vrod which is based on the VR design? A clue here--it wasn't Porsche... |
José_Quiñones
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 07:06 am: |
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Roush Racing |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 09:44 am: |
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OK...for double jeoprady......which Buell development ELF developed engines for Rousch Racing before he became a high school shop teacher? |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 01:24 pm: |
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Gary Valine? |
José_Quiñones
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 09:16 pm: |
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Gary Stippich? |
Raymaines
| | Posted on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 07:30 pm: |
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I really like the looks of the HD sport bike and I've been playing with it in Paint Shop Pro. I'd be happy to send you a high quality copy of it if you're interested.
 |
Budo
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 12:09 am: |
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The V-rod sport bike looks prett interesting. SO how much do you think msrp will be? How much will the dealers mark it up? My local dealer has their v-rod priced at $22,500.00 plus tax. |
Shot_Gun
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 10:41 am: |
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Thats puting them at $8,500 profit. Damn there good. I can sell a $80,000 dollar machine and eeek out 2K if I'm lucky. I have to go to work for a Harley dealer. |
José_Quiñones
| | Posted on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 06:11 pm: |
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More "concepts" here |
Shot_Gun
| | Posted on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 07:01 pm: |
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SWEET! I'd buy that for a dollar! |
Buellbob
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 08:32 pm: |
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After reading all the comments made about this concept bike, the picture is only an interpretation of what could be possible. If they could pull it off as it looks that would be great, it is an awesome looking streetfighter. Also I think H/D missed the boat when they let Mr. Buell go off and do his thing. If they had let him design his ideas in house then there would be no Beull brand it would have carried a Harley badge. This is probably why they bought his company and I feel if they could figure out a way to absorb the name and brand it their own they would. Maybe this new bike is a start to bring everything back in house. Thats how I see things anyway.
 Bob |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 12:35 am: |
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Put HD on the tank, and I bail. |
Msetta
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 02:43 am: |
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Blake - Why?
If everything was run the way it is now, why would slapping HD on the tank make you bail? Curious...
Setta |
Jmartz
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 09:08 am: |
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The truth is that V-Rod motor has potential. I have observed the bike at length and I like how thin and narrow the motor is compared to the ever widening BT line. I wonder it HD has ever considered putting it in a sportier frame (I find the thick frame tubes of the V-Rod quite ugly). Whether is says HD or not concerns me less that its performance and styling. I would prefer it say "Buell" though... |
José_Quiñones
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 10:58 am: |
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José,
Of course it has potential, it's the first in a new "branch" in the Family tree.
The logo on the tank? That's what stickers are for.........
Less than a month to find out. |
Buellbob
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 11:09 am: |
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Just to expand on what I said earlier, H/D has been on the outside looking in when it comes to sport bikes. The XR1000 never did anything for them and the Sportser can't be considered a sport bike by todays standards, so they need to crack this market because its a big one. So maybe if they let their engineers loose they can come up with something very similar to this rendition of a sport bike.  |
Buellbob
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 11:26 am: |
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Blake
Why would having a H/D badge make a difference? Buells are predominantly Harleys anyway, thats why I bought mine. I wanted a Harley but didn't want a low powered hard to handle bike. So I buy Buell and get what I wanted. Besides Eric Buell just proves there is nothing wrong with H/D stuff, because we all seem to agree on this fact, Buells are great bikes. I just think H/D has seen the light and they want in. |
Lake_Bueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 11:37 am: |
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My $.02 worth...
One of the determining factors for purchasing my Buell was that it was a HD product. I really wanted a Duc/Aprilia/Triumph but choose the Buell based on the HD engine (easy to fix yourself)
However, I'd be hesitant to purchase a HD "sportbike". There is something about being a unique individual with the Buell. If it said Harley-Davidson on the tank, I don't think I'd get 1/2 the great remarks I receive now.
If HD wants to brand the sportbike market, they could market Buells in a different manner. Something like "Buell American Sportbikes. a division of the Harley-Davidson Motor Company. This would slowly get the Buell and HD name to become synonomis (sp?) |
Elvis
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 11:56 am: |
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I think HD will maintain brand differentiation by selling "tough" bikes through Harley and "sport" bikes through Buell.
If something like this concept does come out, I expect it to be big, heavy powerful and more competitive with a V-Max than a Firebolt.
I think many people buy Harleys because of the name on the tank, and many people buy Buells because they are quirky and different. It seems HD would be very foolish to blur this line.
Just my 2 cents. |
Mikej
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 12:08 pm: |
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Change "tough" to "Image" or "Traditional".
I bought a Buell for the handling. Being "quirky" or "different" were not a consideration, and still don't come into the equation.
A generalization might be made that:
"People by H-D's for the image and lifestyle,
riders buy Buells to ride."
There are riders who buy H-Ds, and lifestylers who buy Buells though.
But in the end, a bike is a bike, and if you don't buy it to ride then you might have just as well bought a sculpture and put it on a pedastal in the garden.
MikeJ no charge for the spelling errors |
X1glider
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 12:12 pm: |
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I personally don't look forward to working on a liquid cooled engine. More things to possibly go wrong, another leak, more disassembly time, too little room to get your hands into, another bottle of fluid in my garage, more special tools, etc. Granted I've never actually had a single problem with any H-D product I've ever owned (just lucky I guess), so I don't expect any to come, especially as tolerances get tighter and build quality gets better each year, and it really does. I like liquid cooled for what it can do but give me the simplicity of air cooled tech any day. Maybe I'm just lazy. I think I'll keep my air cooled stuff. I like doing my own work. |
Jmartz
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 12:35 pm: |
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Jose:
Can you elaborate on your "1 month to wait" comment? Are you refering to the July dealer show?
While we are on the subject of a new HD release that appeals to us quasisport riders, I really don't know what target HD/Buell was attempting to focus with the Firebolt. Yes it has radical geometry and design but with a 72 HP pushrod motor of limited capability I can't see it attracting that many buyers.
I'm still waiting on a modeslty performing std/sport (streetfighter) release that at least outperforms my S1. |
José_Quiñones
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 01:19 pm: |
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José,
Yes, the Dealer show will be interesting. Last rumours I have heard/read are that one, maybe two VROD derivatives will be released, also a new Sportster (using the XB9R engine, probably all chromed out and displacing 1200cc) and the new X1.
Quote:I really don't know what target HD/Buell was attempting to focus with the Firebolt. Yes it has radical geometry and design but with a 72 HP pushrod motor of limited capability I can't see it attracting that many buyers.
I totally agree, the target crowd HD/Buell is not getting to yet is very "engine/technology focused" and won't get past the "old/noisy/vibrating/76hp" sporty engine, they stop considering the Firebolt right then and there.
"I won't buy a Buell until they get a real engine"
I heard this comment more than once while watching the crowd react to the Firebolt at the Philadelphia Motorcycle Show last February.
I then watched as these same people walked over to the HD booth and DROOLED all over the VROD and heard the following comment more than once.
"This is the only HD I would ever consider buying"
Here's an interesting "what if":
What if, in July, a "Monster like" VROD powered bike is released. It will be bigger, heavier and won't handle as good as a Buell, but it will have more power and be faster in a straight line.
What if Buell comes out with their X1 replacement in July. It will be slower than the new HD, but handle better and be cheaper by maybe 2-3 thousand dollars, but it will still SHAKE like a PAINT MIXER, have rocker box leaks and make odd noises which people confuse with impending destruction.
Which one will have a waiting list this time next year?
____________________________________________________________
Mike,
Most Squid buyers are buying on image too! Can any one of them ride to even 25% of what Mat Mladin can do? NO, but they buy GSXR 750's anyway, because they like the "performance/race winning" image. The fact that this same bike is cheaper than a HD/Buell is icing on the cake!
__________________________________________________
X1glider
Quote:another bottle of fluid in my garage
Sporty/Buells currently use two fluids: Oil and SportTrans fluid
How many fluids does the REVO engine in the VROD need?
TWO! (Oil and Coolant}
Yes it's more complicated, and yes, 4+ hour valve check/adjustments every 10,000 miles are not cheap, but when a HARLEY DAVIDSON is blowing your doors off on your BUELL, it won't seem so bad/expensive to you.
Plus, it doesn't try to shake the bike apart at idle, it is mechanically quiet, it is fast and made in the good old USA! |
José_Quiñones
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 01:21 pm: |
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HD wants the rest of that Pie
IMHO, BUELL's current line up does not get them that part of the market to pay attention. The VROD does. |
Jmartz
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 01:35 pm: |
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Jose:
You neglected to mention the rest of what a person says when they see the V-Rod: "...consider buying if it only had more sport geometry and was not selling for 40% over MSRP"
jose |
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A VROD Based Streetfighter?! »
Archive through June 26, 2002