| Author | Message | ||
     Brucelee |
"OK...golly- a quarter century of turning wrench, and enlightenment hits me like this, all at once, on a board" Turning a wrench = oil engineering expertise? Hmm, I think not! | ||
| M1combat |
Metal is metal yes? Why exactly would using the same weight oil specified by the manufacturer cause any damage whether it be synth or dino? Amsoil synthetic was deemed a good idea by the founder of the company specifically because it worked so well in an "antique" vehicle... That was synthetic that was used in a jet engine before he put it in his vehicle too. Metal is metal yes? | ||
| Jeremyh |
here it comes!! | ||
| Jeremyh |
i agree by the way.......but i am afraid you are going to get a response from this guy.  | ||
| Tramp |
run whatever you like- in my first post referring to the '60s sporetster, i made it clear that the single-weightedness is what the ironhead wants. it's only oil, and it's only a motorcycle. and m1 combat...what is up with this "yes?" hocus-pocus? only movie-nazis and elder monks on kung-fu talk like that..."yes?" and bruce lee, turniong a wrench does give one more oil expertise than just reading, alone. also, turning a wrench does not keep one from reading, and/or having strong powers of learning. use what you like. it's only a bunch of metal, really...................................."yes?"  | ||
| Jeremyh |
actually Yoda says "yes...." all the time. (Message edited by jeremyh on August 11, 2005) | ||
| Tramp |
"yes" he does...actually, now that i think about it, that's probably a joke m1 has that's been sailing over my loggerhead noggin'... m1: why i oughta... | ||
| Aldaytona |
Bought a new FXRS SuperglideII in 1983 just after the announcement that the Shovel Heads were to be dropped for a new and improved engine line. Rode my 1968 Sportster up until that time (it used 60 wt oil, sometimes 70 depending on the shop stock). The Dealership owner told me the FXRS had 20-50 oil from the factory and I've used it since, mostly HD 20-50 or Torco 25-50, OK a couple of times on the road I've used HD 60. It is still in my garage (rode it earlier today) approx. 23 years later and it hasn't been rebuilt or even had the heads off yet. What's wrong with multi grade oils? Oh, it has about 42,000 miles, before someone asks.  | ||
| Tramp |
that's a late (post-amf) shovel lowend, al. the post amf shovels were an exception, AND a great, absolutely excellent engine | ||
| Aaomy |
im sorry for any grief my questions may have started, tramp, i never had any intentions about running anything other than a single weight synthetic in the old girl, all of my bikes i can truly say i pretty much built, the buell was a totaled wreck, the sporty was a rolling basket case. almost all the other bikes i have done have come from junk yards..a 78 gs1000 i used to ride came from the driver hitting a dear, the broken legged drive slid into a corn field. the thousand slide untill it was run over by a loaded dump truck. im the kinda person who see life where most others see death. i would never do anything to hurt anyone of my babys, same as i wouldnt change anything with out first seeking as much knowledge as possible on the subject. the start of the post was only to find out what people where running in their bikes. not to cause any hut feelings or damaged. if any of this was my doing i sincerely apologize. and tramp the singing crownie,,,ya mind if we switch the tune,, (Virgil Caine is the name and I served on the Denver train Stoneman's cavalry came and tore up the tracks again) and yes you can call me virgil if ya want too.... dont know ,, just what im listing to as i type.. | ||
| Tramp |
kicka*s song, aaron! virgil, quick come see... there goes robert e. lee hey- don't apologize for an intelligent question. no need to take any of this too seriously. my initial warning was against running multis in your ironhead, regardless of their compostion. i've dealt, for many years, with guys who get all of their info on riding and wrenching from books. the schtick becomes monotonous after awhile. i've spent enough of my life in highly technical academia to enjoy the true objectivity of a metal machine (designed by men before me) for what it is, (to me)- a respite from the academic. some folks want to analyze things to death, as their powers of analysis ofetn overshadow their innate powers of either base intellect and/or athleticism on a motorcycle. that's all fine, i've simply dealt with the dynamic for along time, and they'll always come back with shaky dialectics in one hand and yet another arcane thesis in another, when they could have actually learned something from practical experience. that's life. it's only a bunch of metal, for which we can thank the urnfield culture celts, and this is only the interent, for which we can thank al gore  | ||
| Brucelee |
Of course, we have yet to hear WHY a multi-grade oil and/or syn in these older engines is a bad thing. Bueller, Bueller? Could just be dogma! | ||
| Tramp |
or why, exactly, regular old organic, as suggested/mandated by the factory manuals, is 'inferior'. multigrade oils lead to far faster lowend wear on pre-evo harley davidsons, brew-sleep. those of us who've had to rebuild these shovels for customers have noticed the trend for along time, that the shovels which consistently experienced premature wear on lowend components were thos which the owners had used multigrades in, and the shovels which seemed never to 'stop in' were those who's owners were using singles-grade 50 and 60 wt. this 'dogma' has been around for a long time, and it's "results-driven". i'm only sharing actual first-hand wisdom with a fella who asked. if i'm somehow mowing your lawn on this one, i assure you it's unintentional. i wonder what it must be like to hit that point where i can't learn from others' experience. how many shovel lowends have you rebuilt again, 'bruce lee'? (and what's up with that nickname, anyway?) | ||
| Bomber |
the enigne designed for single weight lube were, er, designed for single weight lube -- oil perhaps passsage sizes, bearing makeup, and like that -- my experience (with old, non-HD iron) mirrors that of other on the board (and this thread), so I tend to stick to the manufacturer's recommendation regarding lube viscosity -- I don't need an oil PHD to tell me I'm holding a lunched crank in my hand, nor do I reguire an SAE paper to see the linkage between that and multiweight usage -- there may, in fact, be no cause-and-effect relationship between the two, but, after a couple o dozen repititions, even I begin to take notice if I had any 2 wheelers that asked, politely, for single weight earl, that's what I'd feed em, but, unlike Tramp, I'd likely try a synth (although he only stated a preference for dino-earl, and predicted no dire woofs at the door if you used synth single weight) . . .. the only motor pool member that wants single weight lube, presently, is the 31 ford roadster (aka, Primary Backup Veehikal) -- it demands, in a loud voice, non-detergent oil until it's next rebuild (at which time it'll also get a, wait for it, oil filter!) . . . . wow, 21st century, here we come (it'll also likely get a second tail light and an alternator this winter -- my version of a nicely balanced fired-hardened sharp stick) Aaomy -- ya didn't start a thing, friend -- you've no doubt noticed that things start themselves round here, yes? | ||
| Road_thing |
2nd tail light? Alternator?? Blasphemy!!! At the next Luddite meeting, we're gonna rip the buttons off yer jacket and drum ya outta the corps! rt | ||
| Kevyn |
I'm not sure where to weigh-in here, but I do have a running '68 XLCH...I had to just about beg to have the lower end rebuilt...my guess is that it was time consuming. When I first 'aquired' the bike, a trusted 'old school' HD machinist insisted to run only 50W but maybe for a short time in the winter I could drop to a 40W until the temps warmed enough to get back to the 50W... Run whatever oil you like, but the lessons of 'Korn' regarding ironheads were taught and learned from the wallet...gran' daddy XL is a 50W shakin' fool! | ||
| Tramp |
? | ||
| Mikej |
Bomber, slippery slope, proceed with caution lest you take up permanent residence in the lab. It starts with an oil filter, then a second tail light for safety, then an alternator to help power the tail light, then a 12volt system because the older bulbs are getting hard to find, then new headlights because the eyes are getting hard to see with, then new wheels because the old original ones are surely unsafe by now, then newer tires for better control and safety, then a little adjustment to the suspension for comfort and to help save the chassis from potholed road abuse, then better brakes, then hydraulic brakes, then disc brakes, then new axles and drive train because it came with the better brakes from a donor vehicle, then a new engine and tranny and clutch system that all came from a second donor vehicle, then new fenders just so you can "restore" the original fenders, then a trip to the local drag strip since it'd be a waste to not fully utilize all the new hardware in the car especially since you're in the process of restoring all the take-off parts which will all be going back on soon enough, then a minor chop to the top just to get it looking right, then a little trim of the fenders and maybe a slight flare, then newer wheels and tires to fit the new look of the newer fenders and chop top, then a little more body and engine work to blend all the components in together better, then a little side trip to Bonneville just to see what it can do, and, and, and, and, and, and, eventually you end up with a little track T looking thing and a lab full of parts and are wondering how it ever got this far. And it all started with adding an oil filter and a second tail light.  | ||
| Bomber |
Mike -- wellsir, you have demonstrated that you do, indeed, know me, and my fondess for mission creep the 2nd tailighte and alternator are bein serious considerd simply to help the odds on survival -- I had a chucklehead try to ream me a new one a couple of weeks ago, while backing out of a parking spot -- said head was incensed that "your backup lights didn't come on when you reverse, idiot!" I was flabbergasted -- I'm drawing the line at turn signals, though however, as you may not know,the A belongs to the wimmen folks in my family -- I am only the wrench/caretaker (though I am encouraged to drive it when the mood strikes ;-} ) -- I have been given to understand that any of the alterations you've mentioned, which seem reasonable and rational to me, would result in very extreme consequences for and to yours truely. as most of said wimmen folks are also Moms, and everyone knows that Moms are orders of magnatude tougher than Dads - - - - let's just say it'll stay a 31 A (B) roadster ;-} | ||
| Road_thing |
Bomber: This could be you!  That's Choptop and the Supermodel, along with the late Alan Galbraith, Sr (Chop-pop) checking out the product of somebody else's "mission creep" on the salt in '03. rt | ||
| Aaomy |
bomber,, sounds like you have learned the 4 lessons to a happy life,, yes dear, no dear, im sorry dear, your right dear. on the multi weight vs. single weight, if the multi weight were used in a single weight motor caused pre mature carbon build up problems. i do not know if this also applies to synthetics. but in organics thats the way the cookie crumbles,, weight a minute,, carbon build up ,, heat,, extreme pressure,, its a diamond factory.. im gonna be rich.... besides,, i dont mind chopping wood, and i dont care if the moneys no good,, ya take what ya need and ya leave the rest.. bomber,, any picks,, would some day love to have a 4 wheeled toy to all to the collection, got a drive n just down the road begging for it... its been raining hear so i havent been able to get any of the 62 yet.. | ||
| Bomber |
Thang -- well, if that WAS the family A (B), there would be a lil brass dasah plaque that read "RIP Bomber Husband/Dad/Son/Brother-in-Law We'll Sure Miss Him when this crate needs a new set o points" ainb't my car, yunnerstand, so I follow the instructions (most often phrased as requests) of the owners ;-} Aaron but you should never take what's the very best, should you? yep, bunch o pics in the pic area -- here's a teaser  | ||
| Blake |
I use 15W50 Mobil-1. | ||
| Monorad |
straight 60w in my 74 ironhead sporty. glub blub. amsoil 20/50 in my 05 XB9. purrrrr. | ||
| M1combat |
Ahhh... I see your point about the straight 50W... But your statement about not using synth had a period after it and before the 50Wt comment  . I thought you were saying that synth in and of itself was a bad thing to use with antique metal  . I was confused by a misplaced period yes? | ||
| Brucelee |
I guess I am wondering what the theory is on HOW this multi weight oil is ruining these older motors? Everything that I have read about MW oils indicates that they the same overall VIS as straight weight oils once they are warm. Can't see how this would cause these older engines any issues. | ||
| Tramp |
i hear you. it makes little sense, except maybe they need such a heavy 50-60 weight, and the multis tend to run at a real vsicosity of less than the high number, which is rarely ever more than 50. that kind of makes sense, right? | ||
| Brucelee |
Again, only based on theory, if it were me, I would run say, REDLINE full syn. They make both a 20W-50 and 20W-60 grade which SEEMS like it would be perfect for these older motors. I am currently using REDLINE 20W-50 in my XB and it seems to be fine. Having said that, I have not tested the oil in any way with say, a lab analysis. However, it does appear to be staying clean and running cool. Good stuff. | ||
| Tramp |
if you're going to use synth (which sure sounds prudent) why not just use a nice straight 60 wt.? | ||
| Brucelee |
I think you could just run straight syn at say 50-60 weight. The theory behind Mult VIS is that it is kinder to your motor upon start up. BTW-did they even make multi-VIs when these engines were being shipped from the factory? I know that in the early, dino days of multi vis, there were concerns about the oil losing its VIS as it got older. These concerns seem to have vanished as SYN mult vis has come to the market. |
