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Dsergison
Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 10:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

why do so many people say that others would like Buells if they tried them with the right tires?

Why would Buell put poor tires on their bikes in the first place? that would be sales suicide to potential test ride buyers.

I rode my x1 with the stock tire type in several track days and I just love the tires. when they were done I tried avon avaros. I couldn't tell any difference.

My wifes xb9 handles rather scarry with her stock tires. but it's probably because it's set up for her, 5'1" 110lbs. I'm 6'2" 200lbs. My point is someone who has had ther bike long enough to switch their tires has probably had it long enough to get the suspension set up better for them. Then they falsley attribute the bad handling to their old stock tires?

Dan
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Xbjelly9s
Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Leave the xb's setup the same change the rubber and ride it again. I changed to Dunflop D220's to get more miles out of a tire and they even were a huge difference.
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Dana P.
Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 12:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My suspension setup was done correctly right away and had help from RacerX1.Butmy thoughts are that the stock 207's were terrible.Buell had tire designed lighter for the bike and they were a very broad looking tire.In return you had a bike that had a tendency to stand up under breaking in corners.NO GOOD.The second big problem is that the tires wore bad,1800 miles out of the rear on mine and bye bye.Could of got another 500 but they were making the bike handle worse.Now the 05's came with 208's and they are not a special tire like the 207's were even the tire looks totally different they have a very rounded crown in comparison.
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Buells Rule!
(Dyna in disguise)

Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I believe a lot of it has to do with the placebo effect. Very few of us here are actually good enough to tell much if any difference between modern street based tires. But since you read on the net how much better brand X is over stock well then it must be true. So you replace your worn tires with new ones & almost magically you think you are riding better or the bike is somehow sticking better. When the possible truth is that maybe you are paying more attention to how you ride & putting more effort into it or maybe your mind is just playing tricks on you & since you spent the $$ on the bestest tires then obviously they must work.

This is my own theory, feel free to agree or disagree but dont tell em my opinion on something is wrong.

Thanks & have a great day. Im off for some great boating today. L8R.
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Whodom
Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 12:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Dyna, you are probably correct to a large extent.

My one chance to do a good back-to-back comparison was at March Badness at T.W.O. this year. I rode rode a new City Cross and XB12Scg back-to-back; these test rides were at moderate speeds (~45 MPH max) over the same exact route (GA route 60 with some excellent twisties). The City Cross (with Pirelli Scorpions) felt great- very neutral handling. The XB12Scg (with Dunlops) took much more effort to initiate and hold turns. It was really a significant difference.

I suppose it's possible this was due to different suspension set ups, but I'd think they'd have all the bikes set up the same. Maybe the Lightning "low" just felt that much different due to different ergos. OTOH, the difference I felt sure seemed to match up with what's been posted here about various Pirelli tires vs. the stock Dunlops.
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Macbuell
Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 12:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I can tell you for a fact that after I changed from the stock Dunlops to Pirelli Diablos the handling on my bike definitely changed for the better. It has to do with the profile of the tires. The Dunlops on the 03 XB's had a flat, wide profile. Some say they are more like 190's than 180's. The Diablos on the other hand have a more narrow rounded profile giving the tire a larger contact patch when leaned over. I'm not sure how, but the tendency to stand up under braking was also greatly diminished. It is no placebo affect, it's true. However, I think Buell has changed the tires on recent models and the problems associated with the Dunlop D207's amy not apply to those tires.
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Dana P.
Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 12:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Ummmmm isn't that what I just posted??
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M1combat
Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 08:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The fact that the d207 rear is wider and flatter causes the alignment to go off when you lean (look at the pic that was posted a while back that had the ?220? on the back on an XB). The front is closer to the same profile as the Sportec, but the rubber still sucks compared to the Sportec.

The D207 tires seem to be mismatched with themselves. Rear too flat, front not too flat.

One thing I noticed while using the D207's was that if I hung WAY off the bike and tried to kiss the inside mirror and kept my upper body VERY loose and was as light as I could be with the bars (it still took a LOT of pressure on the inside bar to maintain lean angle) then "most" of the bad behavior went away. It would still stand under braking but not as much, it still took a good deal of effort on the bars to turn in (especially on the brakes) and it got pretty squirmy after five hard miles (I think I was overheating the tires). I think that the fact that Buell had professionals testing the bikes somewhat masked this during tire selection...

After I switched to Metzelers a LOT changed. Some may be the placebo effect but I have to say that I can't believe it was all of it. The bike holds lean angle MUCH easier. It turns in MUCH easier (especially on the brakes) and I've only had the rear get squirmy a couple times (and I know I'm pushing it harder than I ever did with the D207's). One of those times was on a ~50 mile stretch of very tight twisties. Literally only a FEW places where you could hit third. I actually got some use out of first that day...

The sportec's work WORLDS better in the wet. The D207's nearly killed me crossing a 10' wide section of water that was running across the road.

As far as suspension changes I set the bike to the factory settings based on my weight and left it there for 7K miles. Through one set of Dunlops and one set of Metzelers. I didn't touch the suspension at all until I knew the bike pretty well.

I think if you were to put a 190 tire of ANY brand on the back with a 120/70 on the front it would exhibit the same characteristics.
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Bcordb3
Posted on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 12:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I agree with a lot of what has been said. The 207's are good tires, not great, good. The major factor being is that they are a soft compound and wear quickly.

I think that Erik wouldn't have put them on the bikes if he thought that they weren't a good tire.

I have changed to Michilen Pilot Roads, mainly for the wear factor, although they do handle well.
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Frausty12r
Posted on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 12:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Dropped the D207 for the redesigned, compound on the d208's. Nothing but love. Hell I've even seen guys on OTHER Bikes, R1's r6's, gixxer thous and a few busa's running the d208's because once brought up to temp they are sticky. Not like.. sticking in the corners sticky, but stop, put your finger on the tire... and you have to pull it off sticky.

I found the d207's had an inherant will to run out from under you on high speed cornering.. not so much to make you crap yourself.. but enough to make you think wow.. did I go in too hot?

At the time I'm sure the 207's were the best most economical decision for buell, and I'm sure they got a good deal ordering 1000's at a time for the production line. Also may want to note that most Harleys come with dunlops stock, and since harley does back Buell, I'm sure this had some weight as to why he didn't go with bridgestones, or Michies, or even the Metzes..

another .02... before long I'm gonna have to start taking refunds to finance my posts =/
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Indy_bueller
Posted on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 03:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I personally am hesitant to talk bad about the Dunlops. Mine seem to work just fine. I've got 4000 miles on them and are just now getting to the point where I am beginning to think seriously about replacing them. I'll probably go with the Scorpion Syncs, mainly because I hear that they last longer. Not only that, but they are the stock tire on the CityX, as I'm sure everyone knows. To me this says that the boys/girls in East Troy like them. I know that Erik and his team put these tires on the bikes for a reason, and since they know a helluva lot more about it than I do, I trust their judgement.
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