| Author | Message | ||
     Chris_mackay |
Sunday was the first time I went to a track day held by NESBA (North East Sport Bike Association). Just like any other, I was extremely excited and arrived at Blackhawk Farms Raceway at 6:45AM. I was promptly approached by two grinning individuals that proceeded to ask why Buell hasn't figured out how to make a counterbalance so their bikes don't drop parts all over the track. Huh.. Okay, I take those kinds of people in stride and just smile and shrug my shoulders. As they turned around to leave me to tighten all the loose nuts and bolts I noticed they were wearing official NESBA t-shirts. Oh good! The guys running this event have a rather low opinion of Buells. Perhaps that was why I had the only one there. Off to registration and tech inspection. No problems. Everything's good. Shouldn't loose too many parts! Riders meeting is next. A quick head count tells me there's about 60 riders today. Cool! Twenty per group is a good number. Besides, we all paid extra because they were going to limit the number of bikes on the track. At the end of the riders meeting they wanted the novice and intro riders to hang around for further instruction. Hmmm... Not very many walked away. Maybe novice AND intermediate are staying. Nope. 38 novice and 3 intro riders. That's going to be 41 plus control riders. That's quite a few considering this was going to be "limited". But I can cope. It's made quite clear the passing rules pertain to this group and the first couple laps will be "parade" laps. That was the fastest parade I've ever seen. Two low sided before we got to turn 5 in the first lap. Apparently, aside from the 3 intro riders and myself, everyone else there had been riding with this group A LOT and they all had aspirations to be moved to the intermediate group. One more high sided on turn 6 in this first session. The pace was, from what I saw, dangerous! Corner workers? Well, I saw 3. The rest of the posts had people with video cameras and the corner workers from other posts apparently had to chase them away instead of watching the track. How in the world are they going to let others know when they can't see when someone goes down? Second session I noticed they moved the few they had to key "crash" sites. The track marshall was rather lost most of the time. Two laps into the session and a checkered flag? Okay, I'm not real fast, but those weren't 10 minute laps! Ooops. Seems he forgot it was a 20 minute session. And they didn't tell us what it meant when the corner workers waved ALL the flags they had at the same time! There were red, yellow, white and black! Not one at a time but 2 in each hand! In all the craziness, a control rider adopted me! Cool! I tucked in and followed a few laps and then got followed. Pitted and talked. I learned a lot in a few laps! Couldn't wait for the next session. The track was getting hotter and more bikes were going down. I've been to the CCS races and there are way fewer accidents there. In my opinion, a lot of people were riding beyond their abilities. Perhaps to graduate and get into a group with a little more room to practice? Third session is here and I'm really up to make some speed. The control rider that coached me last session pulls out right in front of me and we go. This is cool! Smooth as silk! Woops! Passing on the inside must have been relaxed! Had to "practice" evasive moves in 3 separate corners this lap. Handlebars got bumped in the "S" curve! Kinda lost a little nerve and backed off a notch. Fourth lap down the straight to turn one and it looks like all 40 something bikes are here at the same time! Could be interesting. It was. Only one whent down, but Flight For Life landed on the track 10 minutes later. That was my last session for the day. That will also be my last session with NESBA until I'm closer to being "racer" status. In my opinion, this is no place for a novice. I made the NESBA people aware of my dismay. The finger was pointed at me. They had no interest in hearing how other organizations handled things and that some people come to have a good time and aren't there to race! I hope others have better experience with NESBA. They have some super people working with them. And I thank them for showing me the track from a different perspective and getting me pumped up for next Saturday when I'm there again with Private Track Time! | ||
| Kevyn |
...ever get the feeling that some folks just want your money? Ya, sure, they did what they said they were going to do... in the most minimal way possible? Not to be knocking NESBA, but I just received a very slick full color brochure solicitation inviting me to join...and I know it costs a bundle to produce and mail these out and I also know that it takes a bundle of $$ to support this level of advertising commitment based on the return for the $$ invested...(my personal feelings are that many organizations still in their early growth stages take on the advertising commitments under pressure to 'grow' the business' at a time when the organization could really use the advertising money to train members, refine their product offerings and strengthen their foundations. Relying on outcomes from their programs, feedback from participants and internal streamlining before taking on an advertising commitment is a better use of a limited income than the push to attract a large number of new customers in hopes of gaining an influx of $$...) Please let us know how it goes with PTT! | ||
| Spike |
Hard to imagine a worse experience than that! I certainly hope it's no indication of the future of nesba. I did a track day with nesba in May and had a great time. There were a few unsafe passes and a lot of crashes early in the day but overall it felt like a safe atmosphere. I only heard one negative comment about Buell the whole day and even then it wasn't as blatant as what was said to you. One of the control riders has an M2 and occasionally posts here. Another control rider told me if he could afford a 2nd bike it would be a Firebolt. I hope they get things worked out. Mike L. '04 XB12R | ||
| Rotchcrocket51 |
I started doing trackdays in April 2000, on my M-2, with NESBA. Since then, I've done 76 trackdays, 42 of those with NESBA. Most of my events have been in the southeast region, but I've met Garth Cloyd (the Mid-West director) and several of the control riders from that area. My experience has been that it is like a big family. When someone picks on me about my Buell, I laugh it off and take it as good-natured ribbing. You said they had "official NESBA tee shirts"....the only "official NESBA tee shirts" that I can think of are the orange control rider shirts, which the CR's wear while on the track. You will see a lot of folks with NESBA tee shirts on at our events. The stated purpose of NESBA is to provide a safe alternative to riding on the street. The backbone of the club is the Rider's Manual. It sets forth the rules and responsibilities of all in attendance, participants and control riders alike. The control riders are instructors and at times, policemen. But NESBA, just like any organization, is made up of individual members. NESBA provides the organization and framework for the event but there is only so much that an organizer or a police force can do to guarantee that an event happens flawlessly. Ultimately, it's those members that are responsible for obeying the rules and maintaining a safe atmosphere for everyone. There is always a speed differential at trackdays. That's why at NESBA, we ask that riders evaluate themselves and line up in two lines. If they feel that they want to go faster then they line up in the left lane and those bikes go out first. If they feel that they aren't comfortable with a faster pace, then they are asked to line up in the right lane. These bikes go out last. Control riders will work to keep traffic flowing and will pull a slower group to the side when a faster group is approaching so that no one gets spooked by close passing by bikes going at a faster pace. NESBA provides control riders in the beginner and intermediate groups to assist the members with technique and to help them with following the correct race line. They also serve to maintain traffic flow and, at times, to act as policemen to enforce the rules of the particular class they're riding in. I think you would be hard pressed to find a trackday organization that gives more back to it's members than NESBA does. There is never a charge for rain insurance. If it rains and we don't ride, you get credit for another trackday. If you crash and are unable to repair your bike, you get credit for a future trackday. If you sign up for and pay in advance for at least 12 events, you get a 15% discount. After you have done 15 trackdays you get a free set of tires shipped to your home....the list goes on and on. I hope that you won't be discouraged after this first event and will come back. I always try to check the pits and visit with any and all Buell riders at our trackdays. Johnnie Haynes....NESBA # 624....Control Rider in Southeast Region....aka "Buellboy" | ||
| Chris_mackay |
Rotchcrocket51, Yes they had the "Follow Me" shirts and they were the ones that actually held the riders meeting, so, in an attempt to discount the fact that NESBA officials ripped on Buell, you didn't succeed. What about the number of bikes on the track? Why did it cost more? Do they often stuff so many into one group that rush hour traffic is safer? I was okay with all of the inconsistencies until 110MPH in the straights was too slow. I was okay until a CR bumped me in a real bad place to pass. I was even okay with pulling out early and going home half way through the day UNTIL NESBA came over and told me I was too slow. Fine! My intention with this post was to, perhaps, let others in this area know what might be expected of them. To spend $75.00 for a membership and then $170.00 for the day would be disappointing to many when, for far less, you can choose a different organization that, in my experience, will work with you from a true beginning level. | ||
| Henrik |
In their defense, the track days I've done with NESBA have all been very well controlled and professionally run. Now keep in mind, that NESBA - at least last I checked - is a non-profit organization, that run, in my experience, very good track days. My experience with their control riders has actually been better than other track day organizers. They do a good job at keep people from going too ballistic, while helping traffic flow by keeping slower riders off to the side of the track at times. I don't doubt you had a bad day with NESBA, but just wanted to chime in to let you know that it may depend on location and what NESBA staff runs the show. I've done Summit Point and VIR with NESBA - and like I said, great days. You may want to put something in writing and shoot it off to Chris Moon, who AFAIK is the main NESBA contact. From what I've seen of him, he'd not be happy that your day turned into a crash fest. Henrik | ||
| Dsergison |
Chris, did you join the same nesba I did? I was there saturday. I've never had any grief. low opinion of Buells? not noticed. they were real helpfull to me. Even recommended the penski shock to cure my wallowing rear end. it was a real low # of participant limit weekend. they were super aggressive as the track had 1/2 the ususl # on it. it was intended to be a day where you could really let it hang out. and it was. also, except for the few folks that came just sunday, 25% maybe, everyone had allready warmed up on saturday. and was reeally going on sunday morning. don't take it a s the usual experience. saturdays are easier. | ||
| Shanetbolt |
I was there Sunday and the session of the corner one incident I was watching the one and only white Buell XBR there. I was watching on the little ledge on the control tower and in the beginning you were doing fine, but then I noticed you lost your speed big time coming down the straight. Then we were going to go watch from another point and that is when Linda went down in turn one and ended up taking a helicopter ride to Rockford hospital. Word I have on her is she is fine, bruised and shaken up but nothing broken. How about that guy hitting a deer on his Ducati???? The guy managed to stay on the track and ride the bike back to the pits. Needles to say his day is over, broken faring, swollen right calf, right muffler pushed in a bit. Then during the session of Linda's turn one incident the Ducatis friend in the beginner group riding that white 350cc two stroke came 10 feet from another deer on the track. I do not know much about deer, but they normally are not active during the daytime like that are they?????? Anyway it was a hot day and after Linda's helicopter ride they shortened the sessions to 15 minutes and told everyone to drink lots of water. | ||
| Rotchcrocket51 |
You are absolutely right, Chris! How dare those "grinning individuals" suggest that Buells vibrate! We all know they don't vibrate....THEY THROB!!!! No punishment could be too severe for such people! Lemme' see....what would you suggest....how about 90 days in the electric chair?????? | ||
| Dsergison |
man. kicking myslelf for missing fellow Buell'ers. I only went saturday, one day of 90 degree roast you balls in leather is enough for me. your bad experience bewilders me. I was way off my pace on saturday. good thing I left. I would have surely stuffed it on sunday. don't give up, come on saturday sometime. I'll see you then. | ||
| Shanetbolt |
Hey Dan, How did those tires work out for you???? | ||
| Dsergison |
great thanks. I ran them twice at the autobahn and saturday at blackhawk. I don't know anything about tires but they felt the same as the stock D208. which is to say good and no surprises. I LOVE THE GREAY RIMS. I'm having my white ones painted grey too. | ||
| Ocbueller |
I too had a great NESBA track experience. Anyone who has doubts can take advantage of their free intro track sessions and decide for themselves. Chris, sorry you had a crappy day, can only hope it was just a fluke. SteveH | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
I do not know much about deer, but they normally are not active during the daytime like that are they?????? Around here they are, I literally see 4-5 deer everyday just on my way to work. Take a ride around my town & will see more. Giant rats is all they are. | ||
| BadS1 |
Dyna on your way to work you are still in there active period .Usually by 8 ish they are ready to bed down.But yeah in your neck of the woods you'll see more. | ||
| Nesba_1 |
Chris, I am sorry you had a bad experience with NESBA. I wanted to clear up some inaccuracy in your numbers just for the record. Here are the official numbers from the weekend. N-5 B-16 I-16 A-8 N-5 B-26 I-22 A-8 And as far as comments made by NESBA staff, I am SURE they were just joking. If you would like to discuss your experiences over the phone or via email please email me at nesba@nesba.com Bob President NESBA | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
Dyna on your way to work you are still in there active period .Usually by 8 ish they are ready to bed down.But yeah in your neck of the woods you'll see more. Psst Dana, no offense at all but I dont go to work until 10am. I have taken plenty of vacation days so far & have seen deer standing in the road at noon. Maybe all the deer around here are 1st shifters?  | ||
| BadS1 |
Psst Dyna read last sentence yeah you'll see more deer in your neck of the woods.  | ||
| Art_vandelay |
Chris, Sorry to hear that you had a bad time with NESBA. I haven't been to the track this year, but have always had a good time with them in the past and will be riding with them again come August. As for Buell jokes, they kind of are true. Every track day I've been to, except for one sponsored by a Brag group have had only two Buells, mine and someone else’s. Normally only one is running at the end of the day. My last track day at BHF, my crankshaft seal went and I blew oil all over the side of my bike and I'm sure the track, so they do have a right to look at Buells with contempt. I'll take my Buell to the track for the rest of the year but don't know about next year. As for the accidents, it happens. It seems like it was a bad day at the track. I've been to days when it seems like no one goes down. My first track day a 17 year old squid on a R1 went down on the first turn of the day. Perhaps you should send Nesba an email with your concerns. You shouldn't give up on them. It's a good organization. Carlos NESBA 517 | ||
| M1combat |
"My last track day at BHF, my crankshaft seal went and I blew oil all over the side of my bike and I'm sure the track, so they do have a right to look at Buells with contempt." No they don't... It's unprofessional. If they are there riding on their own time, fine, but if they are "working"... Not cool. | ||
| BadS1 |
It gives them no right to say what they said.Very poor professional conduct.On there part. | ||
| Sportsman |
Gad Zooks, they were joking and fooling around. Sorry you took it to heart. I loved riding a Buell at track days, being unique was part of the fun. Since it was your first, maybe it was a little intimidating. Just bad timing. After you get some more confidence, you'd have come back with, Get in front and my falling parts aren't your problem, or some other nonsence. A sour taste lingers, but try to forget about it. On the positive side they called a chopper when they were in doubt. Safety first is what they did, though it does sound like an abnormal amount of wrecks. Bob, by your numbers, maybe bumping a few I to E and make room for B to I's for a one day thing might have helped. Not to even the #s exactly or anything, but to relieve congestion. You have 100 times the experience so I'm not judging, just suggesting. (Message edited by sportsman on June 28, 2005) | ||
| Benm2 |
I've only got experience with Team Promotion, but they seem to be much more Buell friendly. Their rentals are XB's! I don't think they go that far west though. I am still in the "beginner" group at the trackdays, and have gotten, um, somewhat angry when I got passed on the inside towards the end of a day. My dad (a former WERA endurance racer) told me to calm down, it will always be a race to somebody, and to ride at my own pace. Also, note anyone who pokes fun at your Buell. If possible, pass them! | ||
| Lake_bueller |
Chris...sorry to hear about your bad experience with NESBA. While my experience was far from great (Road American in April), it doesn't sound as bad as yours. I did hear a few people grumbling about the group sizes at Blackhawk. I did get some helpful advise which was nice. The group size was a little large but Road America is plenty big enough. Funny side note about riding a Buell at RA...I was getting passed like I'm standing still at the start/finish line (and I'm doing 120+ on my S1W). Down the short fall into turn 1....parking lot!!! Gotta love those novice liter bike riders that don't know how to corner | ||
| Benm2 |
Liter bikes CAN be really annoying at trackdays, especially as you get faster. From novices to experts, they all "wick it up" on the straights, but the fast guys just disappear. However, it is MOST fun to pass them back BETWEEN corners (for the novices who are often in the wrong gear). | ||
| Rotchcrocket51 |
Last year, on the Patriot course at VIR, I was black flagged on my M-2 when one of my "home made" exhaust hangers broke and was hanging down (this was a NESBA event, by the way). After the session was over, a guy that was riding a GSXR-1000 came over and asked if I knew that had been showing me the black flag for almost two laps. I hadn't seen the flags but he had. He said he had been behind me, trying to figure out some way to pass me. My favorite pass of that day was when, on another session, I passed the same GSXR-1000 going into turn one and he never got back around. It's not what you ride...it's how you ride it. A slower, less intimidating bike, that handles great in the turns, can be the perfect track day bike. Does anyone at this forum have one of those kinds of bikes? | ||
| Doitindark |
That sounds like my bike. All I got was compliments on my XB9R. One of the CR's even said he'd like to race a buell. I did my first track day with NESBA and loved it! The first time out was overwhelming with the speed of the other bikes. But I got help from the CR's and they showed me how to pass the bigger bikes in the corners. Now that was exciting. They also showed me how to hang off the bike, which I'll have to work on next time out on the track. I can't wait to do another track day! #853 B 2003 XB9R | ||
| Henrik |
I've done a bunch of TPM track days, and they were quite insistent that I safety wired my oil filter before hitting the track. They'd had an S1 where the filter came loose and oiled about half the track before they could flag the guy down. I completely understood their concern, and they were cool about it and hooked me up with one of the old-timers there who had everything necessary to get me set up and secured. In other words - I'd get some friendly ripping as well, but generally people thought the Buells were cool - even if not their preferred track weapon for whatever reason. Btw. given Bob's invitation to contact him, Chris, I hope you will. It'd be good to talk it over with someone at the NESBA top. Like I said before, my experience with them has been good, and on the track days I've done with them, they've run a tighter ship than some "for profit" track clubs I've attended. As for the CRs and instructors and professionalism; yes, they ought to be - no matter what, but I'm betting they're "just" good riders who get some extra track time as the only payment for their services. Henrik | ||
| Racer23 |
Hi Chris, My name is Fred Duncan, I was one of the two smiling individuals who approached you in the morning. It is not my intent to bash, but I would like to clear up some inaccuracies in your post. First, I was drawn over to your trailer because I thought your blue bike looked rather Brittenesque, and I was admiring it. The counterbalancer comment came up AFTER we were discussing how Buell could improve the existing 45 degree V-twin, and you said there was a lot of room for development left in the engine. The shedding parts comment was an afterthought. As far as official Nesba shirts, I was wearing a gray Nesba shirt, and Jim was not wearing a Nesba shirt at all. Neither one of us was wearing a "follow me" shirt, in fact, I never wore an orange shirt all day. As far as crashes in the first session, I personally picked up almost every bike from crashes myself and never once did I see more than one bike crash in a session, are you sure you are not confusing ride-offs with crashes? Corner Workers. We had corner workers stationed in turns 1,3,3D,4,6, and 7 which covers the entire track visually. Also, we use professional corner workers, not volunteers, and have never once had complaints about the corner workers not being able to do their job. The Track Marshall was a first timer for Nesba, provided by the track, and made a few mistakes learning our system. By the afternoon, everything was running smoothly. Getting bumped on track by a CR. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, If this really happened to you, by all means see me or Garth and let us know who the offending party was. We will deal with it personally. That said, I HIGHLY doubt a Control Rider made contact with you on the track. It has never happened before, and I sincerely hope it never does. As far as telling you that you were too slow, that is not what I said. What I said was, your straightaway speed was too slow and potentially dangerous. I followed you in a session and you accelerated 1/3 of the way down the straight and then abruptly stopped accelerating. My F4i does just over 120 on the straight, I would estimate your speed to be 70-80 mph. With every novice street rider riding a 1000cc rocket, the closing speeds can be quite dramatic. This creates an unsafe situation for you and for others on the track. Another thing, during our conversation as you were ready to leave, I offered you your own personal control rider for the entire day if you were ever to choose to ride with Nesba again. This offer still stands. You gave me no indication that you were unhappy with me on any level, much less what you describe here on this board. I hope to meet you again in the future. Thank you for your time, Fred Duncan Control Rider Captain Nesba Midwest Region | ||
| Court |
Fred: I've only mildly followed this thread but need to offer a sincere "Thank You" for your considered reply. We strive to encourage discussion and limit argument, remaining all the time as civil as we can be. You have excelled by providing information. I'm convinced simply as a result of Henrik's de facto endorsement, I know him to have little tolerance for horseplay. For whatever it's worth, you're stirring my interest in rekindling my trackage. Thank you, Court Canfield | ||
| Kevyn |
...Fred's post was very encouraging...that's a nice offer! | ||
| Art_vandelay |
Chris, How did the PTT day on Saturday compare with Nesba? Just curious to hear you thoughts. Thanks |
