| Author | Message | ||
     Jim_M |
Hey Court, I know you're running a KLR, but what other bikes do you currently have in your garage? Just curious, as the last time I read about any of your bikes is the KLR... | ||
| Court |
We are down from a high of 9 to 4. 1952 Cushman 711 Highland (Concours 1/7 made w/2 seats) 1995 Buell S-2 (Stock except "T" R&D pieces & S-1 heads) 1995 KLR650 (Moidifed for "streetfighter use) 2001 BMW F650 (with LOTS of luggage - work commuter) There are several "under casual consideration" but don't even ASK for that list  Court | ||
| Aaron |
BrianH: btw, I found some literature where HD specifies the crankshaft torque rating of a stock XL clutch, care to guess what the number is? They rate it in torque, not hp, which makes sense, because the load it'll take has nothing to do with the rpm it's spinning. | ||
| Jim_M |
So you got rid of Barney??? How's your S2 running? I never read about it, I'm assuming this is the one you rode cross country? | ||
| Jmartz |
Rocket: Your comments lend a glimmer of hope to those of us who enjoy the brand and its exclusivity but desire a replacement that can seriously outperform the current product. Ther Firepolt in its present incarnation is not it. jose | ||
| Xgecko |
Hey Court, Since you have both the KLR and F650 in your opinion which is better? I know your love for the KLR but the F650 seems to be everything that you need to do to the KLR to make it perfect. Of course I could be wrong | ||
| Henrik |
I really don't care what kind of motor Buell uses as such - except that I like to tinker, and the old HD platform is *great* for that. If aircooled can be combined with outstanding reliability and less weight, then that would work fine for me. As for power, it sure is nice to have on tap, but it'll lure you into thinking you're a better rider than you are; When I was running the Buell on track days, I'd place reasonably well within my group (in between the "slow" and "insanely fast" groups). The Buell handled really well, and I could make up for my mistakes with reasonable power on the straight sections. Now, on the SV650 it's a different game - I *need* to ride well in order to stay even close to mid-pack - and I still have good riders on old Hawks and 125 2-strokes flying by me  I think that's what people are complaining about with the XB9R - it'll be plenty fast for any reasonable street duty, but you have to be able to use *all* the available power to the max to keep up with the "fast-in-a-straight-line" power monsters. That, and the specs won't sound as impressive when you're bench racing  Henrik (the track is a humbling and educational experience) | ||
| S320002 |
Henrik, Very asstute observations. A few years back, when the cornering speeds of 250 GP bikes started to exceed those of the 500 GP bikes, one of the top riders discribed 500 GP racing as; "Not really road racing but drag racing between corners". Maybe this is why some people think power can be a substitute for skill.?? Greg | ||
| Court |
Well....for starters the KLR is THE bike that has been in production for something like 14 years essentially unchanged. Next.....you have to cite CHEAP when you are looking at NYC streetfighter use. I bought my 1995 from an Architect who bought it (0 miles) off the showroom in 1998, put 2,000 on it and sold it for $2,500. I now have nearly more in the suspension and brakes than I paid for the bike. Frankly.....Monster 900's be damned, the KLR WORKS. Next...the KLR is TALL and affords great visibilty. I have a dollection of digital NYC street booby traps....the most common are steel "bridge plates" that the contrators never (as is req'd) stake down to the asphalt. It's COMMON to see them split about 10"-18" with a 5' deep hole between. NYC CAVEAT: NEVER follow so closely you can't see UNDER the car in front of you. Anyway...I could go on and on about NYC. The BMW is a class act and it's a bit like Erik Buell and Buell. When David Robb (prior project Corvette Sting-Ray and current Mercedes Benz "C" Class) took over as chief of design the BMW line began to find itself. I really like the F650 and few bikes have earned such Paris-Dakar accolades. Major attraction of the F650 is LUGGAGE. No one does better than Beemer when it comes to volume and solid design in luggage. (forgive me for not replacing my Red Winbs with Birkestocks ) Remind me and I'll slap the luggage on it and snap a picture to post. The BMW (with the Deluixe Package) includes all the goodies and bells and whistles. Heated grips that are REALLY heated, outlets, a nifty dash, accurate clock...fun, but not the "wheelie me to the Bronx" fun of the KLR. The major difference is LOOKS. The KLR is UGLY, butt ugly green and purple. The BMW is on par wit the CL600 in terms of elegant looks. A very polished (figuratively) machine). Perhaps that's it...the KLR is NASTY, the BMW refined. By the way....before the KLR I was limited to whimp wheelies. If you want to learn to "get it up and keep it up" lessons are FREE on the KLR. Court | ||
| Blake |
I suggest we take that last statement from Court in a puritan mindset.  | ||
| Rocketman |
Veeek : The term "scooters and commuters" was in reference to Honda's C50 Step-thru been the worlds best selling bike, which is something Court keeps telling us that Erik is in awe of. Incidentally, Blake said on the GDB I don't think people really understand how revolutionary the XB9R really is. The more I study it the more impressed I get. That's just how I see it too and I don't give a rats ass if they only make 6 or 600 but 6000 would be pushing the max for me. I don't want everyone to appreciate the virtues of such forward thinking and 'out of the box' design, just us Buell hardcore who seem to be all on the internet. After all, everyone on a Buell would be bloody boring, just like owning (not riding) Japanese bikes. I do agree that the XB's power seems a little lame though, having not ridden the XB myself of course, but I believe that the XB is rather like one of those very exclusive cottage industry type bikes that we might have seen in a Dream Bikes book, except in the XB's case, Buell appears to have revolutionised this type of concept by bringing it to a larger production volume than usually befits such Dream Bike book entries, so maybe to make a Dream Bike do-able as a serious production model they left the power at a 'safe' level for all sorts of good reasons, but like I said before, what the fook do I know. Rocket arse kicked for been English  | ||
| Reepicheep |
I suspect that the XB, especially with that short wheelbase and the "un-epa" standard mods, will have sufficient power to wheelie out from underneath me at any speed between zero and 60 miles per hour. Not having tried it myself, and nobody else trying it with minor performance mods, nobody knows. If it'll do that, its already more then I need. If I wanted top speed, I would buy a Hayabusa. | ||
| Eeeeek |
Well, damn it Rocket, where do you get off making perfect sense? How the hell am I supposed to argue with you?  Reep: Power doesn't only equate to top speed; there's also getting to cruising speed quickly. When I'm on my Buell, I get beat in roll ons by 600's... Vik | ||
| Reepicheep |
Eeeek... I buy that.. thats a legitimate issue. I'm sure the 'bolt will be better, but competing with the even basic 600's is awfully tough... what with bikes like the f4i putting down over 100 horses and weighing well below 400 pounds. Heck, even the inline 4 1000's have trouble with the inine 4 600's... on many tracks a Yammy R6 will run away from an R1. I guess it's a "to each their own" thing. The Buells (even my Cyclone) suffer in terms of performance and reliability against the hyper inline fours, but shines in terms of character, mantainability, streetability, and long term endurance. Works for me. In spite of myself, I'm completely sold out to the Buell vision. It's interesting. I was not smart enough to understand whats so great about Buells until AFTER I bought one. I had a standard inline 4 600cc (Yamaha Radian, picture a sportster with a more upright seating position and a sportbike engine). It was reliable as the day is long, was fast as stink, and was cheap. I was a little too tall for it though, so I started looking. The SV-650 caught my eye, so I rode one, and the tank flare was too low, and caught my (long) knees. The Kawasaki ZR-7 looked good, but I could not find any cheap, and it just failed to excite me in any regard. I was apathetic. Then a woman at work got a new sportster 883, and sent me a link. I looked at the specifications, and much to my shock found that the sportster 1200 was just about everything I wanted in a motorcycle, except it was a cruiser. I wanted a naked standard. Then the lights went on, I finally got a clue, and looked at the Buell website. A month or so later on cycle trader, a 2000 m2 with 3500 miles on it showed up for $5600, and the rest is history. I bought it because it was the only naked standard twin that fit me that I could get in a reasonable price range. The first time I saw the thing idle, I wondered if I really wanted to do this, but the first ride cleared up all doubt. Since then however, it has been anything but pragmatic, which is odd, because I am not prone to get emotional about things. But something about the underlying care, vision and character of this stupid cyclone gets more and more under my skin every day. There were times before I finally managed to sell the old inline four that I had a choice of fixing the Buell or riding the Radian, and I got more pleasure out of fixing the Buell. It defies logic. There is something about this idiot motorcyle that transcends engineering and has touched on art... not an abstract visual thing, but a get right into your life and become a part of you when you are around it type of art. A functional art. A powerfull art. A stir something inside you that you have not felt since grade school art. In hindsight, the only thing I wish I had done differenty would have been to get a 99 M2, which is even more "Buell" then my somewhat normalized 2000, or even better an S2. Now that I have "bonded" with the 00M2, it would be hard to part with it, but if I could do it over I would have chosen a more Buell Buell to bond with. If I can get more power without sacrificing all the rest of what makes my Cyclone so interesting to me, then that would be great, but I am not willing to give up any of what I have simply to try and match something that is uninteresting to me. If I wanted an inline four hyperbike, there are dozens to choose from. If I wanted a performance at all costs twin a TL-1000 with a power commander would be very hard to beat, especially for the price. I could have bought those, and didn't, and don't want to see Buell become just another of 'em. | ||
| Eeeeek |
Wouldn't it be neet to have both options in the line up. Again, I'm just an idiot behind a keyboard, but here's my personal line up for an ideal BMC: M2: If it aint broke, don't fix it. M2L: Same as above M2S: Slim model M2. Slim tank and solo tail section ala S1 and inverted forks. 5 gal tank optional. XB9R: Leave it the way it is XB9RR: Same as above, but with full fairing XB12RR: Firebolt with a bad ass, 140 hp engine and full fairing T12R: Replacement for the S3T. Does not use the XB9R frame; however, it has a slightly detuned XB12RR engine P3: Standard Blast! P3R: Blast with 650 cc engine and aggresive seating position. Also, 17" rims. Tada! There you have it, my little dream world. Vik | ||
| Rocketman |
Veeek : Since you said Your post oozes with ignorance as to how Americans think is when Rocket in England | ||
| Blake |
Yeah, I can't fathom Buell abandoning a naked street-fighter altogether. If they don't bring back a truss style frame, we may have to start our own BWB line of motorcycles | ||
| Ara |
Let me be the first to congratulate you, Blake, for thinking so far "out of the box" that it's doubtful that you even started with a "box". Let me start by suggesting that the XL motor with smart mods is still an excellent departure point. In my mind the smart mods would include a once-and-for-all crankcase breather solution, an engineered-in oil cooler, a four-valve head with centrally located spark plug, single-spark ignition, and true ram air intake. Also to be at least considered would be the XB's drive belt tensioning design and the original exposed-spring rear suspension. Russ | ||
| Anonymous |
Reepic: I agree with 90% of your post, but this: "The Buells (even my Cyclone) suffer in terms of performance and reliability against the hyper inline fours, but shines in terms of character, mantainability, streetability, and long term endurance. " Seems to be, a bit of horseshit, pardon the expression. There is no way that the "average" Buell shines in maintainability, streetability, and long term endurance. (i can't be fooled, i own a buell... and i know about their durability and maintenance) hahhaa, Cecil is gonna tear me up on that, saying i was fooled, because i own a Buell, but whatever, you get my point. | ||
| Ara |
Anon, I won't argue anything but the maintainability issue with you. No valves to gap, no water pump, no chain to grease and tension, bonehead simple oil changes... These are the reasons WHY I bought a Buell. Shim-under-bucket valve adjustments are a thing to AVOID! Russ | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Oh, please. Valve adjustments aren't a big deal and you only do them once a year. Chains are no big deal either. Just like cars, water pumps rarely go out, blah, blah, blah. Rationalize all you want, but don't tell me it's any harder to work on a metric bike than a buell...pure horeshit. (they're actually easier as they standardize fasteners - I can tear the topend of my 6R apart with 2 sockets!) Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Jim_M |
Ara, Here's something that I do take issues with... How hard is it to do these things, really? shim under bucket adjustments? chain greasing? tensioning? (and, I believe that you still need to tension the belts on the tubular Buells, though not as often as on a chain) Bone head simple oil changes? None of these things ever seemed that difficult to me (perhaps on the newer bikes where everything is friggin' crammed in there so tight, but come on...then again, I have always had "older" tech bikes (79 XS750, 80 GS750, 80 440 LTD, 78 XT500, 82 GS 850, 98 Bandit 1200), so maybe I am completely off base here, though I cannot comment on water pumps, as I've never had a radiatored bike [unless you count oil coolers}) not a flame, but I am curious, why is that on a Buell forum, where every one seems to have degrees in engineering, to me anyway  (see any section in the knowledge vault) that they would comment that these things are difficult. Time consuming, yes, but difficult?  | ||
| Jim_M |
Just as an added commentary, I hold nothing against Buells, and do, in fact desire one (ok, several), but these maintenance issues keep popping up as a reason why you would get a Buell. To me, it sounds like FUD. I would think that Buell's stand out qualities (handling, character, WYSIWYG styling, and yes, simpler technology {I don't mean ease of maintenance, so much as the availabilty of parts for them, the fact that if you needed to, a manual, a little skill and the right tools can get done what would normally cost 100's of $ at a typical dealer) would win over anyone looking at them, not ease of maintenence (though the Blast! line and XB line may very well prove me wrong, which I'll be glad to eat my fair share of crow, but not as a marketing point, especially with the public perceptions of Buells in general). OK, this one is open to flames  | ||
| Brianh |
I have to agree about the metric bikes folks. We all know the extent of my mechanical abilities. But I've swapped out the exhaust on both my S3 and ZX9, done the oil changes, plugs, etc... The ZX9 is MUCH easier to work on for the simple stuff. Fastners are consistent and everything is put in a place where you can get to it. Hanging the can on my S3 was a complete pain in the ass! I had the entire ZX9 exhaust bolted up in about 15 minutes. And that says a lot of you again consider my mechanical apptitude! | ||
| Ara |
Jim_M: Check my post again, my friend. I said that not having to do those maintenance tasks were reasons that attracted me personally to the Buell, and that valve adjustments were a thing to avoid. I did not say they were difficult. I assure you that I've been gapping valves for several decades. I simply prefer to ride the bike than shuffle valve shims. Some bikes require removal of the camshafts to get to the shims. In my personal opinion, this is something to avoid. Unless I'm mistaken, your list of bikes does not include a model with shim-under-bucket adjustment. I'm not an engineer, and I see no reason why you would gratitously insult me in that fashion. I have an acquaintence that has a Ducati 888. He IS an engineer, and when he gaps his valves the bike is out of service for over a week. To get excellent performance it doesn't have to be that hard, fortunately it isn't on Buells, and that was part of my thinking when I bought my S3. I also bought it for the things you mention, BTW. I would suggest that nearly everyone here calculates his buying decisions in ways that are not typical or mainstream. That's why we bought Buells while the vast majority of the buying public doesn't buy motorcycles at all, and the vast majority of the motorcycle-buying public doesn't buy Buells. Russ | ||
| Jim_M |
My bad, I guess a read a tone in there that wasn't there....I take back the engineering comment fully | ||
| Ara |
No offense taken, Jim. I get accused of being an engineer all the time! And I haven't EVER slept in a Holiday Inn Express!!! Anyway, what I was trying to say with my posts was that I think the XL engine is still a very viable sportbike engine and, with some mods based upon our practical experiences with these machines, would continue to be an excellent choice. If Blake goes into production, I'll be more than a passive observer. Y'all have a wonderful Easter! Russ | ||
| Ara |
Engineers NEVER say "Y'all." | ||
| Jim_M |
I think it is a very good street engine. Sportbike (depending on your definition) it has potential, especially the XB motor. | ||
| Reepicheep |
What I meant was that my 10 year old inline four was about as reliable as my 1 year old Buell, but the same jobs on both bikes was far easier on the Buell. When my Buell is 10 years old, I think it will be more reliable then it was in it's first two years. That same 10 year old bike was starting to get hard to get parts for. Sportster parts are going to be around long enough that I could probably give my Cyclone to my 4 year old son on his 20th birthday, and he could still easily get parts for it. Every time I took something apart and put it back together on the Yamaha, it never seemed quite as "right" as it was when I started. When I do the same on the Buell, it usually ends up feeling like it ends up better then when I started. When my Buell has 40,000 miles on it, I will be looking for a big bore kit and a complete rebuild, and look forward to doing it. If I was not, I could find dozens of other people who are. When one of the 600 hyperbikes has 40,000 miles on it, I suspect it will be looking to be scrapped or parted out. Parts will be too hard to get, repairs will be too painfull to accomplish, and it will appear pathetic relative to whatever is the new "greatest slickest boy wonder bike". I snapped a header stud off on the Buell. Had it turned out to be necessary to have it removed at a machine shop, I could have had the heads off in a couple hours with simple hand tools, gotten a buddy in a machine shop to remove the stud and retap it, and had it back together by dinner. Even better, I could have ordered a whole new bolt on replacement for the head from Buell for about $300. Knowing this was my upper bound, I just drilled the old stud out carefully, retapped carefully, and slapped it back together. No way I would have risked that on an inline four, can't imagine the work and costs involved in removing / replacing / reassembling the whole head assembly. I should have been clearer. More maintainable does not mean less maintenance, it just means that when the maintenance does come time to be done, it is easier to do, more likely to have parts available, and likely cheaper... Also, more "durable" simply means that long after most hyper 600's are rotting in a landfill, I am reasonably sure most Buells will still be on the road in some shape or form... Offer me a 10 year old Buell or a 10 year old F4i/R6/GSXR600 and tell me I have to pay the money and do the work to maintain it for another decade, and I think the Buell would be the run away winner. And though you did not bring it up, more "streetable" means that I can ride the thing for more then an hour and still feel my wrists, I can accelerate hard without sounding like an immature idiot and attracting every cop in a mile wide radius, I have sufficient power for roll on passing or corner exits without flogging the gearbox if I choose, and I can tool down the interstate for hours on end smooth as silk with all my fillings intact. On that Yammy, even after two years of riding, I was always still searching for "7th gear" on the interstate. There was no comfortable RPM that delivered sufficient power and reasonable smoothness... it was a one or the other deal. |
