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Buell Motorcycle Forum » Quick Board Archives » Archive 0212 (December 2002) » Learning and Developing Skills » Revisiting the Dreaded "Contact Patch" « Previous Next »

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Spike
Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 11:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Blake,

Now I'm not here to argue, but I'm going to need more explanation of this contact patch stuff. I've heard it before and it seems to make sense, but if larger tires don't offer more traction and smaller tires turn in better why don't we all use smaller tires? I mean, why even run 170s?

Mike L.
'99 Cyclone
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Blake
Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 03:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Spike: Aside from market forces that compel us to mimick the equipment we see being used on the racetrack you mean? :) Well of course there are very good reasons for using a wider tire on the race track and on high performance motorcycles. Wider motorcycle tires, by virtue of their larger exposed surfaces, provide superior heat disipation properties and thus are beneficial when laying down a lot of power to the pavement, or when harshly stressing the tires like on the track in a race. Excessive, heat is the prime enemy of tires. More width increases the capacity of a tire to both absorb and subsequently shed heat.

Somewhere lurking we once had a tire engineer. Maybe he will come out of lurk mode and set us all straight on this.

All else being equal (rubber compound, basic tire profile/design, and tire pressure) a wider tire will wear longer. It's contact patch will be wider, where the less wide tire's patch will be longer, thus subjecting the mid section of the tire to prolonged contact with the road surface. For the range of sizes (120mm to what, 170 mm?) we would be talking about for a Blast, it just isn't a significant factor unless you are hot after the lead pack on a racetrack.

As an anecdotal example, consider that almost twenty years ago, the 120mm (actually I think the stock rear was a 110mm/80 series) rear bias ply tire on my XZ550RJ would last 8000 miles riden mostly around town with hoolignistic abandon. Even with very conservative riding, the 170mm rear radial tire on my M2 won't last over 5000 miles. The XZ550RJ was over 100 pounds heavier than my M2, and I made a much more frequent and agressive use of it's rear brake.
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Blake
Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 03:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Also, a bigger tire can be run at lower pressures, like in the extreme case of a top fuel dragster, to achieve HUGE contact patches. A small tire at the low pressures the dragster runs would be sitting on it's sidewalls. Bigger tires are heavier, but they are stronger and better able to handle heat. If the conditions for excessive heat do not exist, like on a 70 RWHP P3, a wider tire simply isn't required. It's more a rider's preference. I'd say that if you have rearsets and have scrubbed the chicken strips from your Blast's rear tire, okay, you might benefit from a larger tire along with the 70+ RWHP. But I'm skeptical.

Look at all the HD A/C cruisers. What tire size are they running? You've got a very heavy bike, with a LOT of torque and a bike/rider that are usually very reliant on the rear brake. Their rear tire isn't much wider than the Blast rear tire.
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Davegess
Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 03:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Big tires are important. All the guys know it bigger is better, size matters, no matter what we are talking about more is better and too much is just right
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Xgecko
Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 04:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Chicken strips??? I don't nave no Chicken strips. My rear is scrubbed from sidewall to sidewall...yes I have rearsets. I have not (yet) however exceeded the tires capablities.
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Blake
Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 05:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

There ya go! Thank you for supporting my point.
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Blake
Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 05:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Wait a minute, you are talking about your rear "tire" right?
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Blake
Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 05:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Gotta be careful when talking to you Navy boys.
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Buelliedan
Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 06:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

NAVY???
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Xgecko
Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 09:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

WATCH IT We squids take offence when you compare/confuse us to grunts and other bullet catchers with white wall haircuts.
Back to motorcycles...I am however running a stock engine right now (other than jetting and a pipe) increasing the Torque and HP will likely require some changes but upon more contemplation (and some reading of Keith Code) I think that improved suspension would be more important than increased tire size.
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FB
Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 09:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

i can just picture Blake on this one:

"Heeeeeere, Ferris, here boy! Fetch!!!!! "

FB (woof!) :)
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Blake
Posted on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 05:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

FB, Now that you are on a viffer, I expect a more civilized and techno savy demenor has infiltrated your persona.
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Blake
Posted on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 05:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

heheh...hehehe...hahahah...hahaha...BAHAHAHAHAH!!!!


Well, you are gonna hafta learn how to work a digicam.
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Raymaines
Posted on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 09:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Big tires are cool! Nothing more than that.

Skinny tires are out of fashion. Phat is where it's at.

One six zero really is better than 190 but I'll be darned if you'll catch me on a skinny hoop. I'd rather be riding on a thread bare 180 than a brand new 150. God bless America, the land of the free and the home of blatant commercialism. Where image is everything and function is sooooo European.
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FB
Posted on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 10:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

hey, the only thing that's infiltrated my persona lately is Fearless, bubba! (get a couple of drinks in me and i'm SO easy)

and NO, you can't see digital pix of said infiltration...

gotta agree with Raymaines, size IS everything!

ride to lean,
Ferris
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Blake
Posted on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 01:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yeah, well with the custom S1 pics Mark posted, it's getting hard err difficult to keep the laptop pc stable while lounging in the recliner. What a BIKE!!!
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