G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile


Buell Motorcycle Forum » Quick Board Archives » Archive 0210 (October 2002) » ECM Hacking? Grease Monkeys meet the Geeks! « Previous Next »

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
Archive through February 09, 2002Tripper15 02-09-02  06:35 pm
Archive through May 06, 2002Sarodude30 05-06-02  11:59 am
Archive through May 31, 2002Rempss30 05-31-02  02:44 pm
Archive through June 10, 2002Sarodude30 06-10-02  06:17 pm
Archive through August 03, 2002Anonymous30 08-03-02  10:00 pm
         

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Doof
Posted on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 11:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Anon-
Will the EFI tuning software work on the tube'rs?

Also, will it perform calibrations like the TPS & AFV Resets?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 11:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I don't know, that's about all the info I got from a VERY reliable inside source.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Doof
Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 12:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I was reading about the SE Twinkie EFI tuning software in the HD Motor Accessories book, and it says that "dealer installation is required." WTF does that mean?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 06:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Probably that the dealer needs to install the system initially.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aaron
Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 08:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I think this is a major step forward, and it's what it'll take to win me over on EFI, the ability to mess with it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Snowdave
Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 09:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I agree whole heartedly. I have an FI system sitting in the box, and as soon as I can tune it for real, it is going onto my M2. Not to mention, hacking will be infinitely easier if we decide that we do not like the Buell software. Just run through a variety of changes and record the signal between the computer and ECM and you should be able to back into the protocol. Although, any software is better than none at all.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mid_Ohio_Jeff
Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 09:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My dealer said that the Screamin' Eagle Program Harley is now selling is only good for one bike! Once you access a bikes ECM, the program and ECM identify themseleves with oneanother and from theat point on, the program will only work with that ECM. So for $500, you can only ever tune ONE bike! Sell the bike and get a new one, might as well send teh program with the bike and buy another copy for $500. You had to figure Harley had something up their sleeve! Last thing they want to do is sell one copy to a guy that runs around and uses it on everyone's bike....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Darthane
Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 10:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Jeff,

It will identify itself with that particular ECM or with that TYPE of ECM?

Bryan
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mid_Ohio_Jeff
Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 11:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

It does a "burn" into that particular ECM's memory and also records info from that ECM into the program, thus it will only ever talk to the first ECM that it is connected too. My dealer found this out when he did some checking into it for use as a tool. He was a little disapointed when he found out it is only good for one bike per program - sorta like the calibartion cartridges. I guess it was too much to expect HD to sell something for $500 that would let somebody run around the country tuning hundreds of bikes. I would expect any future program for the Buell to be set up the same way. So much for being able to tune your buddies bike after you do yours. Grededy HD at it's best! So much for a bunch of guys chipping in the dough to buy one copy and tuning a bunch of bikes! Anybody that wants to diddle with their EFI has to pony up $500 for their own copy....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sarodude
Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 11:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Rempss-

I guess I'll return your Mentally Disturbed ECM. Doesn't seem like we need to hack anything anymore...

-Saro
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 04:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Saro,
Isn't the programable module is only for the XB bikes at this point? You may still want to hack the DDFI module for the 1200 old DDFI systems.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sarodude
Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 05:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

It would seem like the thing to do would be to rig the other models to run the XB ECM. I don't know if that's a reasonable course of action or if there are some differences in little things electronic.

ME - I think the thing to do is to make the race ECM programmable by ANYTHING... From the perspective of selling stuff with the apparency of purpose, make the race ECM easily programmable with an inexpensive software / cable / adapter combo. It might be argued that the stock ECM should not be programmable for EPA and warranty reasons plus you get to make some money without the customer feeling like a squeezed sponge.

-Saro
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rempss
Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 09:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Saro,

If you still have the time & desire, my biggest gripe about the current system is how to reset the TPS sensor in the field.

I think finding a way to do this in the field would solve the issues of 90%+ of DDFI users. I DESPISE having to go to dealer to reset this just because tha factory did not make it user friendly for the guy at home.

It would be nice to be able to play with the fuel & timing, but not "neccessary" for most mods.

My bike has been tweaked as far as it can be, except camshafts, without removing the motor from the frame or adding a turbo/supercharger. I have no problems with rideability due to air/fuel or timing. Maybe a little messing around could turn up more power, but still very rideable.

A PCIII or Techlusion product is less than half the cost of the Harley Screaming Eagle product; right now I am running the "zero" map, the Race ECM runs RICH. Sure, the aftermarket boxes can only adjust fuel values, but again what might timing adjustments bring to the table? And is that worth additional $300, apparently for one bike only?

But damn it if I don't still have to go to the dealer to reset that TPS.

Jeff
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 12:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Jeff,

You know this, but to clarify for those who may not... Once your bike's ECM is properly set, you do NOT want to mess with the TPS calibration. The "TPS reset" as it is called actually has nothing to do with adjustment of the TPS itself. Rather the procedure uploads the reference voltage into the ECM so that it understands the TPS voltage output for the throttle closed position. If that calibration is not correct, an EFI engine will almost always have problems operating in the low to mid/cruising ranges.

Once an ECM is calibrated for your bike's TPS zero position, and as long as you don't mess with the TPS itself, you should be able to remove and later reinstall said ECM with no worries. The TPS zero calibration will remain intact.

I agree though, it would be *nice* if the ECM had a covered/secure/recessed button that we could press to recalibrate it for TPS zero position.

The PCIII or any other EFI augmentation product shouldn't be compared to a full race type module. The new programmable XB module is the ideal solution for a non-EPA compliant (racing-only) bike. :] (:spew: Doesn't that kind of PC drivel make you ill?) ;)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Doof
Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 04:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I talked to a couple dealers regarding the XB DDFI system, and they tell me the only changes made were the addition of a secondary O2 sensor, and revised mapping based on a new "algorithm". I've only seen pictures of the XB ECM, but it looks identical to that on the tube'rs.

How about comparing the connector pin-outs between the two ECMs?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rempss
Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 05:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

If I could just keep my throttle body and TPS on the bike longer than 2000 miles I would never question it. I wake up at night and wander into the garage to screw with this thing! (smiley)

- "The PCIII or any other EFI augmentation product shouldn't be compared to a full race type module."

I would only compare them to the garbage they are. (smiley, OK?)

The previous statement is MY opinion of the PCIII. If your's differs, great.

Jeff
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 06:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Bad news. The supposedly "reliable" source quoted by anony is mistaken. There is no commercially available programable ECM in work for the XB9's or any other Buell. The issue had been considered, but with the EPA watching closely and the very real possibility of customers blowing up their engines due to bad homemade ECM mapping (lean fuel and overagressive advance), Buell has shelved the idea. I have to agree with them.

Certified licensed racers can gain access to a racebike-only programable module. But, like other racebike only components, it will not be sold through commercial outlets. And for very good reason.

Next time anony, find another source.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sarodude
Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 06:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

So, does this mean we get to keep plugging at this?

-Saro
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rempss
Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 07:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Plug man, plug away.

Jeff
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Anonymous
Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 08:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Blake,

I was just passing info on that I received from a factory source (not Dealer level). This source was quite confident with this information, and very specific in the time of release and pricing. Also very specific in the features, number of maps currently developed, etc. You have to take into account we are dealing with hearsay - nothing in print. I hope my source is correct, but anyone could be misinformed, my source, or your source that discounts this. Just trying to pass on information, hopefully reliable information. I am sorry if it proves to be inaccurate. We'll all know by October, I guess.

Now, logic has it if Harley sells a Screamin' Eagle EFI Race Tuner for the big twins, why would the XB be any different?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 09:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Your source may have been referring to the race-only module. His only incorrect statement then would have been that it was to be available through dealerships. Either that, or things may have changed in a short time.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Charley
Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 07:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Is anyone still working on this very intresting project ?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sarodude
Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 10:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I thought I'd put up a heartbeat post to bring this thing back to light somehow. Anyone still workin' at this? I was sent a rather unhappy ECM I spent some time monkeying with. Need to spend more time on it...

-Saro
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Opto
Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 03:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

What type of chips are inside the ecm Saro? Have you opened it up?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sarodude
Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 10:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Opto-

Start Here.

-Saro
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mikep
Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 04:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Has anyone done a Google search for how to hack into an ecm?

mikeyp
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bluzm2
Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Another question...
Is it possible to to use a protocol analyizer/probe/sniffer to insert between the "tool" and the bike?

What is the protocol? Would a serial probe set up correctly work?

Is it possible to reverse engineer the bugger enough to make a device to rezero the TPS?

Hmmm.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sarodude
Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 05:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

It would seem that the TPS Zero function is most important to most Buellers. That would likely be an easy thing to sniff and figure out. However, if you read earlier posts in this rather old thread, you'll see that it's not a very vanilla communication protocol - even at the physical / electrical layer.

It seems that interest may be building once again in this area.

-Saro
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Snowdave
Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 08:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The easiest way to perform a TPS is to have the Scanalyzer and duplicate the signals coming from it. Many pieces of software have the ability to sniff a line and duplicate the transmission.

Dave
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Opto
Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 08:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Saro, there's 3 threads ecm/tps/scan tool going on the Xboard as well.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fullpower
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 04:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

yes saro interest is building. the cold lonely guy in alaska hollers: H E L P . deutch connector, few LEDs, couple momentary switches, 5volt regulator, PIC chip, plastic box
maybe $50 in parts, assembled by 11 year old kids in india, sell for U$ 200 or so. realistically not likely to be a money maker, but sure would be damn convenient to be able to check that little box in the owners manual service column where it says reset/ zero tps every ten thousand miles. has to be done to keep warantee ya know.it just really pisses me off to be able to adjust/ lube cables, inspect brakes, change oil, tension primary, etc, and NOT be able to do that one little maintenance item.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sarodude
Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 - 04:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Blip.

Anytime someone brings up a TPS reset I think of this thread. So should you...

-Saro
« Previous Next »

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and custodians may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Post as "Anonymous" (Valid reason required. Abusers will be exposed. If unsure, ask.)
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration