| Author | Message | ||
     Clydeglide |
If your particular dealer has done something that exceeded your expectations then let them know about it. It’s nice to get a pat on the back. Actually, I prefer to "Grease the Palm". After over 20 years in the service drive at dealerships (2 and 4 Wheel), this or food is most effective. My bikes and my Excursion only go to dealers. The techs know me and how I treat them. In return I get treated very well. I do not reward incompetence as the service department at the RV store where I bought my toy hauler is aware. The owner's home phone number is now in my speed dial on the cell. I do not go on the internet to tell my "tale of woe" until there is resolution. If it turns out favorably I might not tell it at all. BMW of Tampa Bay is well aware of just how crazy a mistreated customer can be. Especially if the words "I'm sorry" are never used. Just mention my name there sometime. I could go on but I have to go back to work now. I could write pages about this stuff. | ||
| Court |
We're on to something....see what's emerging? Buelliedan hit a great point with the "if other customers see it happening comment. Dealers, and the folks who work their, have egos just like us. No one, myself among their number, likes to be upstaged or made to look like they have only "part" pr the info. Trick here is to practice something I do with 500+ Union Electricians daily. I'm often "right" when I remind them to put on safety glasses or harnesses hanging 92' above the ground. BUT...MAJOR BUT...HOW I say it makes all the defense in the world. I suggest that what I am alluding to is intuitive. We can forego, for the time being, the "yeah, but we shouldn't have to teach our dealers". You'd have a point, but one we have NO CONTROL over. The MANNER in which we speak we DO control. The goal here is to WIN, not figure out who is wrong and right. Great point, Dan. Next...Mr. Hann's (M1Combat) comments are, as well, right on target. The "why would we" is flawed logic. We, to repeat myself, should not be teaching Adam Smith Econ 101, but let's stick with our "work with the end in mind" theme here for a minute. The answer, remember HOW you say this will impact how well it works, is something like "cause I worked overtime last week, made an extra $1400 cash and wanted to ditch it on some Buell stuff this weekend". Nothing, harking by to my old stories, happens until something gets sold. My bet is that some dealers are going to see this thread. I WANT them to take the same "high road" that we, as owners, are. But, I also want the dealer principal, the hub and wife who live and die the results of the operations, to know that folks are going into their stores, armed with cash to spend and being told "why would we stock that?". If both owners and dealers subscribe to this dialogue, we'll be on the way to improving the situation. Frankly, there's likely less that "Buell", as a manufacturing concern can do, that we can do better ourselves. Keep talking.... Anybody have a problem with asking Blake to move this to a separate thread in the "Home Court Advantage" area. We're generating some good ideas here and I'd like to have it preserved. I also suggest we retitle it to "What's a GOOD dealer? - Owner's Perspectives" Court | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Court, I've got a better idea(IMHO). Why not just start a new section... "Dealers, the good, the bad, and the ugly"  Essentially customer/dealer stories. Both good and bad. I know I am lucky to live in this area and have a BUNCH of very good dealers withing a 30 minute ride. And, for the 1st time in history, a dealer is working on *MY* bike. This usually doesn't happen. But they gave me a deal I couldn't resist on tires($283 mounted and balanced for Pirelli Scorpions, as long as I did a good smokie burnout for 'em with my current dunlops ) along with having a recall done on my '98 singarm. And having my shock replaced(it gave up the ghost last fall, bleeding all over my back sidewalk), a front rotor replaced(mine was all heat checked badly), isolator bushings, and replace the drive belt. So how about it blake, a new section with dealer reports? | ||
| Buelliedan |
There already is a section entiltled " Dealers the good, the bad and the ugly rate yours" in the KV. (Message edited by buelliedan on April 05, 2005) | ||
| M1combat |
I think we should keep it right here and not change the title... The title enticed me to take a look and I think it will get more traffic here than anywhere else. In other words... It doesn't seem to be broke . | ||
| Iamike |
Ken, If your battery was dead make sure that that is stated in a service order. Gel-cell batteries don't like to be dead for long before they start forming a glaze on the plates. The ones that we use at work even state that they should be charged every 6 months if not on a constant charge. I've had some that work fine after sitting around for a long time....but I don't have to worry about being left on the side of the road with them. | ||
| Court |
>>>I think we should keep it right here and not change the title... The title enticed me to take a look Good point. Stay it does. | ||
| Blake |
"By the way, using the anti-static Novus will also keep you from going into shock as the dog walks past the kitchen door with your air box stuck to him." Over the years, I've seen a fair amount of people post about involuntarily spraying beverage onto their computer keyboards and screens. I always thought they we just exaggerating. I now know better. Thanks a lot, Court. Apparently my Dell Inspiron is fairly coffee resistant. Otherwise I'd have to send you a bill for a new computer. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Would it be possible if on this site we had a sections where we would answer questions of have a 0-10 system where 0 is bad and 10 if great and then comments for dealers? | ||
| Blake |
How about we have ratings for sentence structure and grammar of posts too?  | ||
| Koz5150 |
When I bought my bike, I traveled 200 miles to Iowa rather then buy it from a local Dealership in Milwaukee. While I still had the bike on the trailer stopped by Hals to buy some parts. One of the sales men asked me why I didn't buy my new bike from him. I told him the same bike on his sales floor was $9850 As opposed to the $7,400 I paid. He said he could of got me a deal just as good as the $7,400. My question is why all the mark-up then? was the $2,450 difference jsut there to see if the dealer could squeeze it out of me? I got a lot of respect for a company like Saturn who puts a price on the new car, and that is the price. Why should I have to "work" a dealer for a good price? When I walk into a Harley Dealer should I have to feel like I am trying not to be cheated? I know running a dealership cost money, but make it honestly an up front. I would love to look at a price tag and see Dealer cost - $x,xxx Dealer overhead - $x,xxx Dealer mark-up just to see if we can get it - $x,xxx To me it's like tiping, you don't give the waitress whatever she thinks her markup should be? Specially if she sucks. As far as rating dealers, it's tough. I think even the best dealers have their bad days, and you may just walk in on that day. I personaly am not satisfied with any of the Milwaukee dealers. I wish that someone would open a Buell only store and have wharehouse of parts and walls full of clothing and accessories. A Buell Emporium if you will (which I totally understand it is not cost effective, if would just be cool). BTW - A Harley Ignition cover screw will NOT work as a replacement inspection cover screw contrary to what the salesman at House of Harley tell you. It will rub the timing chain and make a hell of a noise! (Message edited by koz5150 on April 05, 2005) | ||
| Taxman |
Koz: if the dealers put there mark-up directly on the bike for all to see, do you think anyone wood OPT to pay it just because there dealer is nice? when i bought my bike i found another dealer that had the bike cheaper. i talked to my local dealer about this. they said that they were unable to match the price, but they were able to throw in all my first two services free of charge. that more than made up for it. if the cost had been as far out of wack as the other story though i'd have to go with the less expensive one. | ||
| Jlnance |
Taxman & Koz I don't think the dealer should be expected to list his cost. Thats asking a bit much. But I am with Koz about sticker prices. I want to know what the bike is gonna cost. I don't want to negotiate the price, I always feel like I am getting screwed when I try. There are a lot of reasons dealers might like the negotiation process. The part about it that really works in favor of the dealer, is that it makes it impossible to call up 10 different dealers and figure out who is going to be cheapest. | ||
| Buelluk |
Blake, What about syntax,spelling, mispronunciation as well! ...the whole kit and caboodle BTW my grammar is hopeless. | ||
| Budo |
Funny thing about dealerships, they are populated by people, sometimes just like us. My dealer, when I bought my S1W new in 1998 was pretty good. Then something happened. They expanded, opened other stores and bascially got large. Customer service suffered (in myexperience), so much so that I no longer own a Buell. This is a family owned dynesty with several large opulent stores (Bumpas HD/Buell of Memphis). I am sure they move a large number of bikes. So my experience finally was this, there are two maybe three people in parts and service combined that were actually concerned whether or not I was a happy customer or whether or not my bike was running, the rest of them just showed up to punch the clock. So, my adivce is this, if you have a bad experience, put it in writing and make sure the owner gets it. Give them a chance to make it right, if they don't, then don't give them your business. | ||
| Court |
>>>So, my advice is this, if you have a bad experience, put it in writing and make sure the owner gets it. Give them a chance to make it right, if they don't, then don't give them your business. I expect a fair price and to be treated with respect, as a customer. I no more expect the dealer to tell me his "real cost" than I expect to provide my employer with my home budget to allow them to compensate me for my "expenses plus a reasonable overhead". This is a two-way street. Owners are making progress. We are learning how to deal with dealers. I remain unconvinced that dealers actually "want to be bad" and treat customers poorly. I suggest the way to meld the differing perspectives and expectations is communication. I once wrote a long winded piece entitled "what is customer service?". My premise is that unless a dealer or retailer understands his/her customer’s expectations that they may indeed be imputing tons of effort and providing a GREAT, but wrong, solution. Some of you recall the example Stephen Covey used of using a map of Philadelphia in Chicago. If you are lost in Chicago, using the wrong map, no amount of "redoubled effort", "commitment to insuring success" or "desire" is going to help. You will simply, with more effort, get loster at a more vigorous rate. Doing the wrong thing well, misses the point. My youngest, at 24, just managed to 2.5X his salary with a gutsy move that included a memo to the Chairman basically saying "Our customer service sucks. We've become very good and very efficient at doing the wrong thing. We've optimized a system to alienate our customers". Dear old Dad told him what to expect and when the call came to be in the Chairman's office with his Manager at 4:00PM, he knew he either had a great job or was a candidate for a new one. He went armed with a complete outline of HOW TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. It worked. We, as Buell owners, need to be part of a solution. I beg the dealers among this discussion to let me know if any of them want anything OTHER than loyal, happy customers, eager to dispose their disposable income in their emporiums. I long for a dealer in the NYC area and have a notion that good things are in the works. I'm excited about what I am seeing. Soon, it will be ready for the ultimate test..... I’ll send in my secret weapon...HENRIK. A "better Buell" is in all our interests. Do your part to make it happen. Just my $0.02 and, as usual, I could be wrong. Ride safe, lean much and smile more, Court | ||
| Slaughter |
All I can say is MY dealer (Glendale HD/Buell) not only works with us but comes out to play. When the folks who sell you the hardware not only let you hang out in the shop but actually come out on BRAG rides and RACE with you... it's a different experience. Mario Vindeni - Chief Operations Officer racing at Willow Springs:  | ||
| Henrik |
"If they make Henrik spend, they're on the mend" Ouch, that *hurt*. You're painting me as both a grouch and a cheapskate ... uhm, well, aha ... yeah ... Carry on Henrik | ||
| Road_thing |
Grouch? No way. Cheapskate? Well, maybe, but is that such a bad thing? What I'm having trouble with is the image of Henrik chasing somebody around NYC on an old shovelhead... rt | ||
| Budo |
>>>I remain unconvinced that dealers actually "want to be bad" and treat customers poorly. I agree with that. My dealership owner may emphaise customer service to his immediate subordinates, however it does not seem to make it to the front lines. That is, as a customer I don't see it. This is why it is important to let the owner know about your experience. If the response you get, or lack of one, does not make you feel like they are trying. Then the only thing you can do is to go elsewhere. These machines are too expensive and we spend too much money with these folks to recieve poor customer service. Not to say that it is valid to treat someone spending $12k on a bike differently from someone spending $20.00 on a T-shirt. They should all be treated the same, as a valued customer. Just does not alwasy seem to work that way. | ||
| Garrett1998s1 |
So here is my question. I recently bought my first Buell a 1998 S1. It only had 1300 miles and the original owner hadnt had the 100 mile service done. I took it in to my local dealer to have it done and they informed me that none of the recalls were done on it yet either. The engine runs much smoother from the service they did but when they replaced the suspension parts on the bike I think they messed something up. I was barley out thier driveway when I noticed it I rode it for about five miles then took it back to the dealer. The service manager had me talk to the mechanic that worked on it I had him take it for a ride and he says he cant feel the problem I feel. To me something feels loose on the bike I havent quite figured out what the problem is and thier only advice was to bring it back if it gets worse. Ummm if im riding down the highway at 65 and something falls off kinda late to bring it back. Soooo do I take it to a different dealer and have them check it out??? Im new to riding and barley know where to begin checking things outmyself. Just frustrated that the bike I bought felt so good and now after they worked on it im scared to ride it. | ||
| Phillyblast |
Did they replace the shock? If so, did they set up the suspension for you afterwards? Could be that simple. Or not, of course YMMV | ||
| Whodom |
This has been an interesting and informative thread. I'm glad Blasterd got his bike straightened out, but I was sure thinking "Man, it would have been SO much easier if you had taken the time to LOOK at the bike before you took it home." I'm sure that's easier said than done with a shiny new Buell waiting to be ridden. I have conflicting feelings about my local dealer. On one hand, they've always been very courteous to me and good about ordering parts and following up with phone calls. They installed the recall shock on my used (ebay purchase) 2000 S3 without batting an eye and did the work on time and on schedule. Everyone in the dealership is generally friendly and they seem to be gradually getting where they know me when I walk in. OTOH, they've had a total of 2 Buell demo bikes (an XB12R and XB9R) at the dealership since January, and they haven't had ANY Buell merchandise in the store in well over a year. They're getting ready to move into a brand-new, larger building right down the street and I'm a little worried Buell may get left behind when they move. Maybe I'm dead wrong and the new store will finally let them devote some decent space specifically for Buells- I hope so. I try to do what I can to support them- I've bought oil and parts there since I got the bike on the road (I got my initial lot of parts from DaveS). I REALLY want Buell to be around and available locally in a few years when I'm able to buy a new one to replace my S3. Unfortunately, I've got a daughter in college so I don't see myself being able to walk in and buy a new Buell for the next few years, so I can't really do a lot to influence what they do about Buell. The more I read from Court, the more I'm convinced Buell's gonna be around for a LONG time, I just hope they're still here when I'm ready to buy. | ||
| Clown |
The Buell dealer body is changing every day. The rational used to be if you carry Harley's, you should carry Buells. The problem with this theory is: if the dealer doesn't enjoy Buells or know how to sell them, they just take up space. Buell is in the process of letting dealers opt to carry the line or not. The dealership I work in is 100% behind the success of Buell. If other dealers don't want them, send em all to me. I'd love to have them. We have made it a point to train all personnel about the product line and we even carry Buell clothing. We have had huge success with the Buell line. We had a great turnout for our demo event in the North Ga mountains and most people I talked to were happy with the event. | ||
| Blake |
I for one was terribly disappointed and I'm not afraid to say it here! | ||
| Blake |
I think I speak for others too. We were very much disappointed, on account of we didn't attend! | ||
| Cataract2 |
Whodom. That sounds like how things are for me here. They have now just 1 Buell there. An XB12R. They'll be moving into a larger store and I'm wondering what will happen. | ||
| Blasterd |
Whoaa, I go away for a couple of days and my thread still lingers. Whodom, I picked the bike up after hours, therefore I did not see the scratches and rust in the dark. Regardless, it did dot run right, the battery was dead, etc. After all it was a 2005, it should not be like that especially since I asked if it was ready to go. They told me that they checked everything out and ran it earlier. If they had done like they said, they would have noticed that it did not start, had the cosmetic problems that it did, and ran terrible. Not to mention the tires were 15 psi underinflated. The point is they told me a lie, and then lied again when they said they changed out the bodywork, and then got it confused with another bike and replaced the ECM when all it needed was to reset the TPS. By the way, should my headers already be blue only after 200 miles? Ken The worst part is my 2000 cyclone was in better cosmetic condition than this 2005. | ||
| Twowheeldream |
Hey Garrett98... I just got my S3 back from the same recalls and my bike felt funny too... i brought it right back and found out that the D collar or washer over the front isolater/rubbermount turned with the bolt when the tech torqued it. as a result the D washer came in contact with the frame right behind the steering head and transfered A LOT of engine vibrations right through the handlebars... kinda felt like the engine was going to fall out the front. dig into the throttle a little and it felt like i was holding onto a jackhammer. not a good feeling. Check that out it might help... the tech found it after only a few minutes, adjusted it and took it on a quick ride to check it out before bringing it back to me everything feels good now.... only thing I didn't have them do was set preload.... bike feels like it sits higher now, and i said something to the tech at the time, but he said that the preload adjustment wont adjust ride hight... didnt make sense to me but i didnt argue it cuz i dont know for sure anyway, hope that helps  | ||
| Country |
Holy cr*p, lots of replies, I am in the middle of reading a book most of you know called, Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. In it, the author goes into detail about how in the 70s the shops all started going downhill. This is because of a disregard of caring about what you do. And when this caring goes out the window so does quality. So what we have here is a failure of quality. Things haven't really changed much since the 70s in this department. Since there is truly a lack of quality to be seen round the world. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be isolated to shops in our sense of the word. Sorry to hear about your problems. I hope everything works out for you. |
