| Author | Message | ||
     Danvetc |
I know many of you like these crazy stunt videos, and this site has one from the KTM factory. It looks like an orange and black Lightning, to me. (The color scheme looks good, though. Anyone from the factory watching?) http://www.990superduke.at/ Charlie (Message edited by danvetc on March 16, 2005) | ||
| U4euh |
Hate to say it, but that sucker looks like fun! Do see the power going through the curve with the back tire lighting up?!!! | ||
| Reepicheep |
It can't be an expensive Buell... Buells Ship. (ducking) (Message edited by reepicheep on March 18, 2005) | ||
| X1tx |
and it does have a liquid cooled engine.....  | ||
| Court |
You did note that the UNITED STATES is not listed? I've been watching this intro for 3 years. Glad to see it has arrived.....well, kinda. Tell ya what....ride an XB9SX and you'll stop looking at videos on the internet.  | ||
| Danvetc |
I find it flattering, to Buell, to see how similar the SuperDuke 990 and the 05 Speed Triple are in appearance and design. Eric was first, by a long shot. I own a CityX, BTW. Charlie (Message edited by danvetc on March 18, 2005) | ||
| M2nc |
It is amazing how many imitators are out there these days. I think every motorcycle company in the world is trying the street fighter category. It must say something for Buell. You know this KTM is closer, but again, DOHC liquid cooled V-twin, traditional thinking weight management, traditional thinking brakes, etc, etc, etc. The good news for Buell is that no one seems to understand the entire formula. | ||
| Lornce |
Interesting that KTM did underslung muffler on their sporting V-Twin prototype but not the Super Duke. Neat motorcycle and the most compact production v-twin powerplant on the market. Hey Court, I know you're getting too old to think this way, but imagine how much fun your City-thingy would be with 120hp on tap. Power DOES corrupt. Lornce | ||
| Buellriderm2 |
How anybody says this bike owes anything to the XB line is beyond me. If anything there are more nods to the Monster with its tubular trellis frame and wide-angle liquid cooled V, but honestly I just think it's a badass machine standing there on its own merit. And having been around KTM's motard bikes the last couple years, I can say in all honesty that their fit and finish and the quality of the components they use is second to none. Just ask Reg Kittrelle, as I see he dropped his parkway blue for orange and black. Knockout looks, superior quality and 120 ponies on tap? ppffomp - the sound of the collective Buell faithful sticking their heads in the sand. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil right boys? Later, Justin | ||
| Court |
Justin: I think it's a wonderful bike and and having owned KTM's I second your comments about their fit and finish. My being underwhelmed is that KTM got their publicity cart, actually CATHcart, 3 years ahead of their motorcycle horse. When all the hype started, and having been a Duke fan, I was interested. By the 2nd year of hyping, aided by the intro of the XB's, I just lost interest. If you want to have some fun, see if you can buy one. Are they really here in dealers yet? Have we graduated from hope to hype to here? By the way, I doubt KTM gave much more attention to Buell when they designed the bike than Buell did to KTM. They both bought one of the others bike looked it over and decided what was smart and what wasn't. Buell buys, as do all manufacturers, pretty much one of everything. That's how I met and became friends with the folks in the Honda R&D center in Torrance, CA in 1996. Court | ||
| Simond |
The Super Duke is due in the show rooms next month. UK test bikes are already with the press here. I had a KTM LC4 and was itching to replace it with a LC8 but ended up selling it while waiting and don't really have a use for such a bike now. The LC4 brought out the worst in my riding and I suspect the LC8 would do the same but more so. It turned every ride through London into one of those video games........ fun at the time but scary when you think about it afterwards. It looks like a fantastic bike and if I was still commuting I would buy one tomorrow - it's probably for the best that I'm not!!!! I agree with the comments above though - it has absolutely nothing in common with anything that Buell has ever produced. | ||
| Johncr250 |
I had one of the KTM LC4`s and that bike rocked! Probably one of the most fun bikes i`ve ever ridden. The new super duke with be even more fun i`m sure with around 120hp stock, huge brakes, and light weight. KTM even has a Race Kit in for the Duke in the works with 15 more hp to let loose. Hold on baby! Eric started the whole Street Fighter thing but looks like KTM is going to perfect it! | ||
| Court |
>>>Eric started the whole Street Fighter thing but looks like KTM is going to perfect it! Two things wrong with that: First, Erik is spelled with a "K". Second is you missed the "it has absolutely nothing in common with anything that Buell has ever produced" | ||
| Johncr250 |
Sorry about the spelling i`m a bad typer! True KTM does not have much in common with Buells, but they do seem to have alot in common with the whole Street Fighter theme that alot of manufactures are jumping on these days. Like the Aprilla Tuono, Triumph Speed Triple, and the Kawasaki Z1000. For me its all about HP, the XB line is a winning package no doubt. The one problem for me is that 82hp for the XB9 and 95 for the XB12 is just not enough power to be alot of fun. I had a XB12, great bike, but it needs 25 more hp. I`m a HP junkie i guess. I`ll take a tuono, speed triple or Duke with a 120 Plus Hp over a XB with around 90 anyday. GO take a demo ride on a one of those and see for yourself. Just my worthless opinion. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Justin,Reg certainly has not given up on Buells as he has a bunch of Battletrax's scheduled this year.He is at almost all of our A.S.B.N. meetings and loves the City Cross.Just that KTM wants to pay him money to do their thing,Battletrax with a different name and bike. | ||
| Danvetc |
I don't need more horsepower, I just hope to gain the skills to explore what my XB9 can do. To have a bike where you touch down a peg and feel you still have good rubber contact is exciting enough for me. (I do understand the argument for top end speed when racing.) Charlie | ||
| Lornce |
Re: Who created the first factory built "streetfighters"? I believe Ducati's Monster predated Erik's more monstrous S1 by a few years, but didn't come close to the styling bulls-eye the S1 scored. There's no doubt Buell has been and continues to be an influence on the industry's design and style trends. As mentioned, look at the new Speed Triple. A great bike in it's own right but it's rear end has clearly been influenced by Buell design. The trend towards underslung exhausts embraced by KTM, Bimota and others must be satisfyingly vindicating for Erik, too. The newest Tesi 2D's underslung exhaust looks like it could be a Tuber's Pro Pipe installed backwards. Additionally, try reading any manufacturers ad copy the last few years without seeing mention of - mass centralization. Where'd you first hear that phrase with regularity? Say what you will about the motors he's more or less committed to, the man and his design team are leaders and innovators par excellance. Having said that, given the design's inherent constraints, the motors are pretty amazing, too. Having owned nearly 40 bikes over the years, including KTM, Ducati, BMW, Moto Guzzi, Suzuki, Honda, Yamaha etc etc. Buells have afforded me more moto-enjoyment and bang for the buck than I could ever reasonably expect. fwiw, Lornce | ||
| Buellriderm2 |
Hey Jim, Thanks for the clarification, after seeing the pics from Daytona that someone else posted of Reg in his KTM shirt I figured Buell had dumped Battletrax and Mr. Kittrelle all together. Court, I too have been anxiously awaiting the import of this machine for well over a year. If it lives up to the hype it might drive me to lay my money down. For now I'm happy to bar hop on my Buell chopper, but if the Super Duke rides as good as it looks then I might have to re-join the canyon strafing fray. I think it's ironic that, no offense, some of the more mature Buellists around (i.e. Court and Reg) are so enamored with the City X, a bike that's IMac styling was clearly meant to attract the 18-35 set that Buell has struggled seemingly for a decade now to impress. Meanwhile, at 28 myself, it does absolutely nothing for me. I liked the black on gold XB12R, but the riding position makes a 500-mile day on my rigid sound comfortable in comparision. I guess the thing that gets me is that we're technically three model years into the XB era, and outside of different color combinations and the obvious intro of an stroked motor they've done nothing different. They're following the H-D school of thought when it comes to innovation. Need an example - look at the V-Rod. Four years since the debut of the original VRSCA and what have we seen since? Different handbars, colored body work and now rearset foot controls and longer rear shocks. But so what? I actually expected that motor to have found its way into several "distinct" models by now, but H-D drags their feet like they always have. I suppose it's hard to be innovative though when you've got all those billions to count right? This ideology will not work in the long run if Buell is to see continued prosperity. The competition is too quick in their redesign cycles, and the younger crowd Buell is supposed to be rounding up for Harley is too quick to jump on the latest and greatest. Building essentially the same bike for a half decade with no real change simply isn't going to cut it. It's easy to see that H-D wants to make the R&D money they spent on the XB back before they shelf it for something new (same with the VROD obviously) and will stay with the current platform as long as it takes to accomplish that goal. It's just disappointing that's all. | ||
| M2nc |
The super duke is not copying the XBs? Look for yourselves. In a side by side on the site below, the tail section, seat, tank, flyscreen, lower skirt are so copied I'm surprised Buell doesn't file a law suit. Then again, imitation is the best form of flattery. Also why are people quoting crank HP for the Duke and RWHP for the Buell? Here is a link to compare the two straight up. http://www.motorbikes.be/en/compare/4671/4940/, The Duke has a 17hp advantage, but 10ftlb of torque deficiency. Also I would love to see torque curves on a Dyno. The XB12 produce as much torque at 3000rpm, as the Duke does max. The duke is heavier, longer wheel base, higher center of gravity, etc, etc, etc. Dollars being equal, and straight lines at over 120mph are your thing, I could see the nod to the Duke. But since we are expecting $5,000 more or so plus poorer handling, wait for the revs power and even then I expect that you will have to take it to the triple digits to get an advantage straight line, no way, the Buell is dollar for dollar better. The Duke just sounds like a fairingless 600 race-replica trying to ride the coat tails of the XB. | ||
| Sportsman |
Looks like a short stroke XB to me. Of course it puts out more HP than a long stroke, but as somone mentioned it lost the torque, DUH. Besides that, what's to get wound up about? And you can do that to a Buell if you want to spend that kind of money. I don't know nuthin, don't pretend to know nuthin, but a 1350 short stroke may be in the future. Can't wait to see the new model year. | ||
| Court |
Let me share a few thoughts. I know you are a big Buell fan, perhaps this will shed some light. >>>>I think it's ironic that, no offense, some of the more mature Buellists around (i.e. Court and Reg) are so enamored with the City That's correct. Here's the deal. Folks are going to LOOK (visual cues) at the CityX and think it's an exercise in trick eye candy bodywork, handgaurds and a silly grill. Nothing could be more wrongistic. I'll say this one more time, with due credit to Erik Buell who first said it:
The XB is so well thought out that each person who, initially sizing it up as a "neat looking iteration of the XB", has been totally taken with it. The seating position, arrangement of the bars and pegs...have been optimized. I was, had it not been for work, going to ride down to Atlanta for the B.R.A.G. event this weekend. An 800 mile day would be no problem on this bike, sans luggage concerns which I can deal with. I have at least one 1,000 mile day planned for the City{X}. I'll say it again....you gotta ride one of these to understand why some moto-manics, who can ride anything they want for free daily, are writing personal checks for these once they spend REAL street time on them. By the way, my day of riding in Manhattan yesterday would NOT have been possible without the handguards. Heading accross the countries longest suspension bridge with temps hovering just above freezing, they made THE differnece between taking the bike or the truck. >>>gray{I suppose it's hard to be innovative though when you've got all those billions to count right? } Wrong, you've got the chicken and egg reversed. Suppose the reason those billions exist IS wise marketing and careful calculation of risk/rewards of various innovation. I know two of the folks on HD's board and they have never forgotten the lessons of the 70's. Even, as one of the most amazing financial success stories, they still run scared. >>>>look at the V-Rod. Four years since the debut of the original VRSCA and what have we seen since? Interesting. Good fodder for an HD board. Don't get caught in the "Buell is attached at the hip to HD" myopia. It'll keep you in a Volkswagen, believing "a 911 is essentially the same thing". >>>>The competition is too quick in their redesign cycles Precisely the reason manufacturers maintain such tight secrecy. Folks when know...when the product is ready to ship. You probably remember the greatest motocycle war of all time when Yamaha and Suzuki butted heads. Buell is smart enough not to slap the oriental dragon on the snout. >>>This ideology will not work in the long run if Buell is to see continued prosperity. Buell is, and will continue to be, amazingly successful. In fact several "old timers" will within the coming few days be gathering to "be thankful and share gratitude" for luck, lessons, friends and fate dealt by the road travelled over the past 21 years. Buell is doing some amazing things, bringing to market patents dreamt of long ago now that funding/markets allow. The Miguel Galuzzi/Erik Buell discussion will go on for a long time. It's so enthralling the Guggenheim wanted to have a symposium to have the two of them discuss it. Frankly, I like both designs. Note that the patent for the XB frame predates the Ducati Monster ( ). Go ride this CityX and let me know what you think. Court | ||
| Rocketman |
Triumph Speed Triple - 1993. First proddy street fighter outta the blocks? Stick around long enough in the motor industry one gets a feel of how things work out. Who would believe names like Laverda, Norton, Indian, Mondial and hundreds more would ever be revived. Something about modern trends and tradition me thinks. There is a definite trend \ market for Buell in every corner of the world and if we were all to be honest with ourselves I think we'll find there's never been a criticism offered against the XB platform excepting aside its power output that some find inadequate. There is on the other foot a truck load of journo speak that constantly and nearly three years on praises the living daylights out of the XB's handling characteristics beyond those of any other bike. Fact is you only need to look at the bloody bike to realise there are lots of people that will buy one on looks alone - never mind merit. So are there people out there telling me the XB's look is no longer popular? Popular enough not to sell it? Dream on. Let's face it, one of Buell's greatest assets is to remain a low volume manufacturer thus catering for the needs of those who want on merit and others who want on looks alone. I mean anyone can own a Harley these days right - which wasn't the case when I was a 13 year old long haired 'yoof' discovering the delights of masturbation. Back then Hells Angels and God rode Harleys. Nowadays it's how fast your wallet falls that gets lots of people on a Hog. Rocket | ||
| Djkaplan |
The Super Duke is ugly and the video was stupid. I would have much preferred just the bike and not the interspersed shots of the fake fight. | ||
| Danvetc |
Court, Bear with me. I have a CityX, which I bought over the 12S, (with the 12S on sale to cost only $500 more.) I had both side by side and it appeared that the handlebar position of the two was very close, and they use the same footpeg position. I chose the CityX over the 12S after the test drive for the seat, the 984 engine, and the black wheels. Would not the XB9/12S owners have a very similar riding position if they use the CityX seat? This seems, to me, to offer an excellent selling point to potential Buell owners; the XB frame allows inexpensive interchangeable parts to accommodate a variety of uses. Wouldn't it be awesome to have a OEM Buell "track day" package with something like a "race" seat/bar/fairing that only took a couple of hours to change out? It would be two bikes in one! Charlie | ||
| Court |
>>>Wouldn't it be awesome to have a OEM Buell "track day" package Yes, it would. | ||
| Brucelee |
This bike has been the "second coming" for it seems, forever. I for one will be happy to finally see it here on our roads so the mythic nonsense can be dispelled. If I wanted a liquid cooled street fighter with conventional dynamics, I would go buy a z1000 from Kawasaki, go kick the Duke's A.. back to whereever the hell it is from, and then go back to riding my XB. | ||
| Buell2001b |
I went to the compare link above and its is sad. it looks like something the japaneses would do. technology is as any bike in the market and it looks like it wants to copy the BUELL lighting. there is no inovation. by the way did i read right that is a UK engine, if that is true you better have a fat wallet. | ||
| Kaudette |
Funny to see the polarity of the arguments here...! Sure, KTM put some big $$'s into the pre-launch - which now feels like it was done in pre-historic times! That being said, you have to admit that they have created MUCHO hype around their first full blown effort to get into the roadster market which is a major PR coup. In all the KTM brings a number of things to the table : 1 - an innovative yet tried & true V2 powertrain, very compact and dry sump to keep the weight down... 2. A modern, "different" design that creates a niche image for the brand - much different in lines (angular) than anything else out there (possible exception to the Z1000 - however if you see a Z1000 in the flesh - it looks much heavier and stodgy than the Duke) 3. A complete package that appears viable in terms o price / performance. You guys in the states may give it a bad rap for stcker price but when you compare it in Europe to a S4S, Speed3, Tuono or a 12S, it is +/- 1000 Euros difference so either the dealer or the buyer can eat part of that to make it happen. You get exclusivity, a nice design, a top notch drivetrain, and KTM quality. There was a comment to the flyscreen being a Buell rip-off - nope, this is the same front light assembly as the Adventure. As for the rear-end, everyone is going to the short, pointed rears (R1, Kawa, New CBR, etc), so no big Buell rip-off there - the chassis is tubular, chain drive, radials, etc - don't really see the links on those critiques... As for the Duke against a Z1000 - I haven't ridden the Duke but have ridden for a day the Z1000 and to be honest, wasn't all that impressed - the front end was a bit vague and the power came on late - sure it will scoot, but I didn't feel nearly as comfortable in the sweepers as on the Buell and I would "imagine" the Duke, with their setup, should be a bit sharper than the Z. Now, on the straights, lights out on the Z compared to the Buell, but I'm not a cat and prefer to keep my one and only safe & secure. If I get a chance to test ride one, I'll give the full report. | ||
| Buell2001b |
kaudette you mean if it does not break down on your way out of the parking lot,lol | ||
| Midknyte |
Precisely the reason manufacturers maintain such tight secrecy. Folks when know...when the product is ready to ship. You probably remember the greatest motocycle war of all time when Yamaha and Suzuki butted heads. Buell is smart enough not to slap the oriental dragon on the snout. More about this please, Court... |
