| Author |
Message |
    
Court
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 11:41 am: | 
|
>>>>which is a major PR coup.
It's been nothing short of a PR fiasco of the nth degree.
Pavlov, in his early days of making dogs salivate, taught us that, of the types of reinforcement in classical conditioning, virtually all exhibit a high correlation between expected frequency of reposnse effectiveness and the time between the "behavior" and the "delivery" or reinforcement.
I am a huge fan of KTM for no reason except they are cool looking and the ones I have owned have sufficiently scared me and I like airplanes and motorcycles that scare me. KTM passes my entry exam on that mark.
I was excited at first, even when they "launched" without having a body devloped.
They *probably* lost me with the intro of the body. I think it's ugly. That's a matter of personal taste.
But....regardless of the visual appeal, the excitement, and concomitantly the associated technology, that surrounded the first announcement of the bike, has long, to quote Pavlov, been extingushed.
The plays into the reason Buell is not cluing you into what they are working on now. Design should not be hampered or unduly driven my expectations. The last thing I want is Buell telling me what they have in the hopper for 2008, me missing the wonderful current range, and them delivering "to expectation" rather than be, like they were with the XB, right on the cutting edge at intro.
You deserve more, demand it, get a Buell and be all you can be.
Court |
Geoffg
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 12:52 pm: |
|
Take a look at this review: go to http://www.canyonchasers.net/ and click on the link titled 2005 Speed Triple vs. all the other Naked bikes.
This is a European article comparing these bikes:
1. Triumph Speed Triple
2. KTM Superduke
3. MV Brutale
4. Benelli TNT
5. Aprilia Tuono
6. Ducati SR4 monster
7. Buell XB-12s
8. Kawasaki Z1000
The list is how they rated them, but again the reviewers rave about the XB's handling, only dissing it because of the engine and powertrain. Personally, I chose to buy an XB because I live where the roads are twisty, and more power is not necessarily going to make me any faster--but better handling will, and may make me safer to boot. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 07:23 pm: |
|
I've gotta ask.....
There are about 5,000 registered Badweb folks. How many of you have put down a deposit, even say a paltry $50 deposit, on the new KTM?
Just curious....
There is, I am finding, sometimes a chasm between what folks will SAY on the internet and what they really do.
Court |
M2nc
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 07:57 pm: |
|
Not me. Last year I was seriously looking at a Suzuki GXR750 as my next bike. Though I still want one, I can tell you the top speeds of my Nighthawk & M2. I would find myself wandering into triple digits way too often.
I bought the M2 instead. Less maintenance (I said maintenance, not repairs), more comfortable riding position, still great handling (though after thrashing an XB9R in Daytona, I see room for improvement) and better fuel mileage. The M2 was just more sensible for the type of riding I do, back road corner carving.
One unintended plus, the M2 is more comfortable than my Nighthawk after 100 miles. I didn't expect that (of course the M2 has the Corbin seat). It did great to Daytona & back.
To me more power will not mean more fun. The KTM is just not going my way. |
Ray_maines
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 08:13 pm: |
|
I thought you might like to read what "TripleNut" from Cheshire, England has to say about new Speed Triples and KTM's on a Triumph BBS:
Went to my local dealer yesterday to try out the new S3 and also blagged a go on the KTM 990 Super Duke.
First impressions are that the new S3 is too light at the front and it’s very skittish over even slightly uneven surfaces. It’s a as though it needs clip-ons to force more weight over the front wheel The quicker turn-in is welcome but not earth shattering and the bike feels smaller and a bit lighter generally, which won't help the jittery front end - anyone getting one should factor in a quality damper aswell. The engine is stronger but again not massively, it’s almost like you've bought a Power Commander and had a decent dyno setup of your own bike, it's no quantum leap that's for sure. Also, the brakes are no great improvement over the 2004 model and initial bite is actually worse. The gear change is miles better though, almost Jap bike smooth. So in a nutshell I wasn't that impressed with the new S3 apart from the new gear change and that styling is also worse in the flesh and hasn't aged well since the bike show. All in all I prefer my 2004 model and I went there with the full intention of putting down a dipper on a new S3………..(cont’d on next post)
.............BUT, and this is BIG BUT, I did also have a good blast on the KTM Super Duke 990 and I was blown away. This bike is without doubt the best road bike I’ve ever ridden, bar none. It's everything the new S3 wishes it was. The engine is an absolute peach with loads of bottom and mid-range just where you need it. The handling was utterly sublime without even a sniff of a waggle from the bars and this was at higher speeds and on the same roads as on the S3. The brakes were astonishing (and they're non-radial) and would haul you up with just a brush of the lever. The hydraulic clutch was perfect and the gear change was like a knife through butter. The riding position was much better than the S3 and more comfortable (and the mirrors worked also) although the seat on the KTM was a little hard (apparently there is a gel option). Even the headlight fairing was good for wind protection up to about 90mph, something of a novelty in these here parts. The bike just begged to be played with and simply hooned it’s way round every corner. I've genuinely never smiled so much after a first ride on a bike as I did after riding the KTM. BUT this does sadden me greatly as I’m a huge Triumph fan and very patriotic. I didn't even go there with the intention of trying out the KTM as I really wanted a new S3 but you just can’t ignore something as astonishing as the Super Duke.
So now my mind is made up. I'm keeping my 2004 S3 until KTM release the tank bag and rear luggage option later in the summer (because there's no way anything else will fit or not melt on the Super Duke and I do a few miles) then it's down to trade-in the Trumpet and hello 990 Twin.
So if any of you are in for a new bike and can tear yourselves away from the love of all things Triumph (I know it’s hard) then do yourselves a favour and get a go on a KTM Super Duke, you will be amazed, I guarantee it.
The Edited Part:
I suppose I should foot note this properly:
From the T595net BBS,
http://t595.net/messageboard/thread.asp?thread=22451
(Message edited by Ray_Maines on March 21, 2005) |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 09:12 pm: |
|
Sounds like that report was written by a KTM employee. It flies in the face of most every other review of the Speed Triple thus far published in the British press.
Neither are a bad bike that's a fact. More telling though, they're both great bikes. This makes me wonder why it seems there are some who seem to imply the KTM is not worth waiting for.
I tell ya, when Moto GP kicks off I hope that Shakey will pilot the KTM powered King Kenny bike to some astonishing results.
I was in a meeting with KTM top brass in January (another story - nuff said) and I tell ya KTM are aiming very high and they have the kahuna's to do so. If the US picks up on the Super Duke I fear they're gonna pinch a few Buell sales in doing so and that cannot be measured by deposits placed, but in time units shifted will reveal all. I believe success in the US will in the end come down to fashion alone and not how great the Super Duke is as a motorcycle - and that's where Buell will fight back.
Is anyone other than myself amazed how little the Brutale is selling? I've not seen anyone yet that's ridden one say they wouldn't own one. The press the world over has raved about this bike yet I don't see them flying out the dealers door. They're £10500 over here yet last week I saw one, yes granted it was only the one, been sold off for £7500. No I wasn't tempted. Not with a 916 version coming next year I wasn't. Let's see now. That's nearly 7 years after the prototype was first shown and I'm anxious as hell to ride the more powerful version. If MV give it the power I want I'll want to buy one. Worth waiting 7 years for then.
Rocket |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 05:10 am: |
|
Don't misread me, I think the KTM is likely a great bike. No argument there, I've loved my KTM's.
But, if the Super Duke warranted the last 3 years of hype and trumped up Alan Cathcart reviewS, then the magic has simply faded.
My own little metric is that when not 1 of 5,000 avid mototcyclists (some of whom claim this is the bike of bikes) has acutally SPENT $1.00 that my beleive in all the "I have to have it claims" wanes.
When Buell intro'd the first S-1, I raced to plop down a deposit. Again, no arguments about how "good" the KTM is. Just waiting to see if it is "talk" or "walk".
Now....off into the sunset on my NAS and go put down a deposit for my next bike.
 |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 07:35 am: |
|
There's one over riding difference though Court in your S1 versus KTM analogy.
One was on home territory the other has still to invade.
Personally I think the Super Duke looks dated. But then I thought so from the off. For me the same cannot be said of the RC8 though like all others we only seen pics. That could well prove to be KTM's biggest mistake as I believe the RC8 certainly looks the part as a flagship where as the Super Duke though good as it is does not.
No argument from me, the 12S seems timeless right now and looks the biz in the flesh.
Rocket |
Mikej
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 08:01 am: |
|
"my next bike"
Post a pic?  |
Outrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 10:06 am: |
|
Allow me to be the first to show a pic of my Next Bike!!!
 |
Regkittrelle
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 04:23 pm: |
|
huh oh… seems my named popped up on the Search-O-Meter. To clarify…
Nobody's dropped anybody. I stage BattleTrax for whomever pays the bills. Buell has been very supportive over the years, giving me far more than I've ever given them. That mutual support continues. Look for BattleTrax at this year's Homecoming.
The CityX remains my fave Buell, and I believe it to be one of the best of its kind out there. Having ridden the KTM's (my favorite is the 625SMC) I, at this time, don't see a lot of similarity, other than they're both motorcycles.
The newest bike in my stable is a Ducati MultiStrada 1000S DS. I looked hard and long at everything available to fit my needs (long legs, sportbike handling, weather/travel amenities) narrowing the choice down to a BMW GS (too tall/heavy), KTM 850 (TOO TALL!), V-Strom 650 (inferior handing… to the others) and the Duc. For years I've used the XBs for travel… just got tired of being beat up by the weather and lack of carrying capacity. Was hoping for an S3 version of the XB. |
Sleez
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 04:26 pm: |
|
reg,
nice to see you're still around!
all i've read about the multistrada is rave! |
Regkittrelle
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 05:05 pm: |
|
Still kickin…
I love the 'Strada, but then it's a Ducati so you have to take its quirks as part of the package. great bike,but not for every rider. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 04:34 am: |
|
I like the Multistrada too if for no other reason thinking outta the box.
Nice to hear someone as experienced as yourself Reg give it praise.
Rocket |
Henrik
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 08:49 am: |
|
Reg; you look good in those KTM Trax pictures - you lost weight/ 
Hope all is well with you.
Henrik
(Ahh, an S3 version of the XB ....) |
Regkittrelle
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 12:13 pm: |
|
Rocket…
I gotta cop to that too; the weirder bikes always hold appeal. Recently I spent some time aboard a big cruiser from one of the Japanese outfits. The motorcycle did everything perfectly… and left me perfectly bored.
The ultimate issue, however, is that the most popular motorcycles are popular because they do everything so damn well. I do believe that with the Ducati, the Buell, and several others, there's a certain level of compromise—specifically in the areas of reliability—that you have to accept. Having said that… the XBs have NEVER let me down. Neither has the Duc, but then I've only 1400 miles on the clock. W'ell see.
Henrik… Naaa… it's all in the camera angle. Trying now to work off my winter layer. |
M2nc
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 06:57 pm: |
|
Reg, well said. My Nighthawk is stone cold reliable and is a good all around motorcycle. I got a chance to ride with some of my buddies on Buells last weekend and on smooth pavement I was able to keeping up okay.
The thing is, I ride the bike 200 miles and think to myself, now what. The M2 puts more smiles on my face. Just riding it like I was sane, it still makes me smile. You have to get it, it's an acquired taste, one that most of us here have.
I saw the new Ducs at Daytona. I like the smaller 700's. Like the Moto Guzzi Breva, they look like fun bikes, no rockets, just fun. |
Ray_maines
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 10:06 pm: |
|
Oh Reg, you are SOOoooo dead meat!
You hinted that some Buell somewhere might - in the past, currently, or in the future - be less than 100% perfect. If you keep that kind of talk up you'll soon be accused of Buell bashing by one of the faithful and a half dozen wannabees will agree with them. Then you'll really feel bad. Change your ways son, it's not too late. |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 04:37 am: |
|
>>>Trying now to work off my winter layer.
Y yo tambien.....from the winter of 2001.
Good to hear from you!
Court |
Henrik
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 08:55 am: |
|
Naaa… it's all in the camera angle.
Can you provide that exact angle - I seem to be needing it these days 
Oh, come now Ray - those of us who've been around Buell before the XB have no illusions about reliability - i.e. it takes some work to get it up to par and keep it there. The XBs' as far as I can gather seem to be leaps and bounds ahead on that count. It's when someone with limited-to-no experience with Buells in general chimes in with: "don't let it idle too long - it'll disassemble itself before your very eyes," that some here protest
Henrik |
Reg Kittrelle
(Trax Master)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 11:58 am: |
|
M2nc… You've neatly capsulized a recurring feeling I have after riding appliances that pass for motorcycles, "Now what?"
The Breva is a neat scooter in many ways. I looked seriously at one, but needed the power of a larger motor.
Ray… I've never known ignorance to be a credible foe.
Court… ditto
Henrik… (Photoshop)
Agree on the XB situation. I've beat the snot out of several and, as the Timex of old, "Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'" The one area that still requires a rider's attention is… the rider's attention: You can't ignore maintenance as you can with most of the Japanese street bikes. (And that's really not a bad thing). |
Buells Rule!
(Dyna in disguise)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 08:51 pm: |
|
I would go buy a z1000 from Kawasaki, go kick the Duke's A.. back to whereever the hell it is from, and then go back to riding my XB.
Care to make an actual bet on that? I havent ridden a Superduke obviously, but have ridden the Z1000 & I thought the handling wasnt very good at all..maybe compared to an Original Z1 it would be great but compared to the elite bikes it sux. I have ridden KTM's 525 dirtbikes which were converted into Supermotards...thanks again Reg for the great event...& even though I had never ridden one before & it took me a few laps to get comfortable with the bike I feel confident in saying that with a few more hrs of time with the bike I would have been challenging folks who have been riding them for a long long time. The bikes are very ez & forgiving to ride. If the superduke is even a close cousin to those bikes its going to be an awesome handling machine...the power seems to be decent too from what has been reported so far. |
M2nc
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 09:24 pm: |
|
If I were out to conquer the world, I would hop on an GXR750. After defeating the foes, I would hop back on my M2 and enjoy the ride. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 08:03 am: |
|
Dyna, I don't agree about the Z1000. I thrashed one with ease for 3 hours, never letting up, and I couldn't help but feel that Kawasaki had done a great job in bringing to the party a mass production bike to compete with the exotics it's so obviously pitched against. The Zed's biggest problem is its price. Why the hell Kawasaki have priced it in the £7000+ bracket is beyond me if they want to sell lots of them. But then I did read somewhere the Zed Thou was to be a limited production run by Kawasaki usual standards. Maybe that explains the price.
A friend of mine bought one last year, too. Ok he changes his bikes often. Read, very often, except his KTM which is a keeper. He raved about the Zed's abilities. in fact his biggest gripe was the fact it was to easy to tame and left him wanting even more.
I'm waiting for the 916 Brutale. That's what I fancy testing next. I hope it doesn't disappoint after the 6 year and rising long wait otherwise Court's gonna be right about the shiny stuff wearing thin!
Rocket |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 10:41 am: |
|
The z1000 handles just fine thanks and it has an awesome engine. With just a few mods (lighter pipe, tune the suspension) it will hold its own against pretty much any litre naked bike out there and wallop many.
Don't know anything about the KTM bike as I haven't ridden it. This includes all of us here this board. Vaporware! |
M2nc
| | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 05:01 pm: |
|
If anyone on the other side of the pond wants a Z1000, come here to the US and ship one back with them. Dealers are stuck with them and you can pick them up for around $7500. With present exchange rates you could probably buy one for half what it apparently cost in England. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
|
M2, see the other thread where they're apparently known to be on sale for $4500.
Importing new stuff into the UK from overseas has other financial constraints to consider. VAT at 17.5%. Import duty at 6% I believe. Then there's the shipping and handling fees! Once those formalities are taken care of you then need to set about registering for UK use. Not expensive relatively speaking but it all adds up in the end so as what first seemed like a bargain is no longer.
Back in 1997 I chased the idea of importing an S1. I was offered a cracking deal from a NY dealer who was prepared to crate an S1 and deliver it to the ship for me. This was at a time when independents were selling S1's over here for upwards of £10500. Back then the dollar \ pound exchange was poor compared to todays rate but it could have been do-able from a money saving perspective, but only just and after a lot of hard work. Fortunately HD stepped up and brought them in themselves, closing down the import trade, and at a reduced price of £8000. When I finally bought mine (read could afford one)it had dropped to £7300 and turned into an S1W.
Man did I waste some money on international phone calls between 96 and 97!!
Rocket |
Ray_maines
| | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 11:16 pm: |
|
Come over here, buy a Z1K, ride it for a few thousand miles and import a used bike.
All that technical stuff aside, the Z1000 is cheap over here. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 07:14 pm: |
|
Ray, I'm sure the holiday and the riding miles would be worth it but importing a Z1000 not a chance LOL
Rocket |
|
