| Author | Message | ||
     Budo |
If the kids riding 600's are not the the future then who is? I am fifty years old, I am not the future. Are you? | ||
| Benm2 |
Harley has posted record profits again and again, without selling unit one to the kids riding the 600's. Ducati has also established istelf as a "marquee brand", with very expensive product (in comparison) that does NOT have the same technological "mine's bigger than yours" edge. I'd suspect that Buell would rather "align" itself with a Ducati-ish crowd (in the US, at least, they seem to attract an inordinate number of engineers), while H-D would likewise like to capitalize on the same "Made in 'Merica" individualism that has contributed to its own bottom line. Paraphrase? I don't think Buell or H-D give a rat's a** about the kids riding 600's. I think Erik likes to fly in the face of said 600 conventions, and hoe his own completely different row. IMHO | ||
| Blake |
Turbo XB9RR. Bring it. Dang Budo, you are only 50? I thought you were at least 51.  | ||
| Budo |
Cut me in half and count my rings. I could be wrong!  | ||
| Court |
>>>>I'd suspect that Buell would rather "align" itself with a Ducati-ish crowd Yeah....that's be a stroke of genius. Ducati is a fun motorcycle, but the company bounces likes a golf ball in a concrete closet. TMH saved them the last time the stopped shipping parts (1998) after being cut off by vendors. The "Ducati Flagship Store" Ducati opend has been a deli (I posted the pics a while back) since it went on it's nose. The company HQ, in what later turned out to be a moved motivated by libido, was moved from NJ (where the prodcut arrives in the US) to CA. The Ducati ADR's (American Depository Receipts) have been pretty much flat since day one. I expect them to be arond for a long time. For a company that started manufacturing capacitors and electric razors they never fail to fascinate. From time to time, twice on invitation from Ducati, I've had the pleasure of speaking to that "mostly engineer" afficianado crowd you describe (Donald Trump was present at Henri Bendel, but he's not an engineer) and I am always amazed at how little folks really know about the company. If you need information, a good friend of mine is head of an Italian motorcycle magazine and I have a pretty comprehensive Ducati libray here. But, alas, I consider it interesting, but pretty much a road map of what NOT to get sucked into. Court P.S. - that being said, I am a HUGE fan of Ducatis. Miguel Galluzzi pinned it. Says much for the PSD in the USA, eh? | ||
| Grndskpr |
So after saying all that Do you, Court own DMH???????????????? R | ||
| Aydenxb9 |
How can one say that the young sportbike crowd is the future of motorcycling when sportbikes only account for 20% of the market in this country? All be it, sportbikes are the second largest category in the market, the largest being the cruiser/custom segment with 63%. I'd say the future as it stands right now is the cruiser market. Dave | ||
| Trickvrod |
Some things to consider on are that the current buell motor is really at the end of it's refinement lifecycle, the Revo motor is in it's infancy with lots of room to grow. Revo's in Vrods are easily making 130hp and near 100ft/lbs with just top end work. Bigbores over 160! A working RPM range up to 10k+ HD spent giga bucks developing the Revo. Clearly that technology will ripple thru the entire line. Yes I agree a Buell-Revo would have to have some changes from the current Vrod motor. For one thing the oil sump won't work with a bike that'll wheelie. I think the motor would be 'tuned' for the buell with specific cam, head, ignition and fuel work. Mounting would likely be different as well. But whatever happens the next generation is here, resistance is futile, you will be assimilated. I find it difficult to believe that Eric isn't smart enough to design a chassis w/ the revo that isn't 80lbs heavier than the current bike. There are ways to shave weight and it's not an impossible task. Eric is a smart guy, it won’t weigh much more, if any. And since it’ll be a production machine Buell specific Revo housings will very likely be part of the project. Sadly a 6 speed is a dream that we’ve all had, but is merely fantasy. If Eric stuffs a Revo derived engine in a Buell I’ll buy one. Yes, I’m a Vrod owner now. For a 600lb pig it’s a wonderful machine. The Revo is a pleasure to live with. No I’m not looking to trade my V in on the Revo-Buell, I’d have another motorcycle. The scuttlebutt about a Revo-Buell is very exciting. I surely hope it’s true and this will be the year I get a Buell too. Nice board you have here. Lots of good info. Thanks for sharing. (Message edited by trickvrod on March 06, 2005) (Message edited by trickvrod on March 06, 2005) | ||
| Jlnance |
Sadly a 6 speed is a dream that we’ve all had, but is merely fantasy. Just a thought... If the power band of the engine could be widened by 20% then that bike with a 5 speed would be like the current bike with a 6 speed. If the cost to designe and build either improvement was the same, which one would you prefer? | ||
| Trickvrod |
the ratio spacing is pretty good (rpm drop per shift) If development costs were the same I'd rather have a 6 speed than a wider ratio 5 speed. Reality is that they are not even close to the same. | ||
| 1313 |
I am still wondering why the V-Rod wasn't designed with a 6 speed... Sure it wouldn't really help us in the States out much, but in Germany (where the V-Rod is very popular) it would be an absolute hoot to take the V-Rod with a 6 speed on the Autobahn and be able to keep up (and pass) the 'bahn-burners. Unfortunately my time on the Autobahn was limited to a BMW R80GS that would top out at 180 KPH (after I got acclimated to the slight wobble that started at 170 KPH), and a brand new Mercedes Benz C200 Diesel that topped out at 216 KPH on a flat level road. I couldn't believe that I couldn't overtake that Citroen minivan until the road was going downhill long enough... Oh yeah, back to the question at hand. If development costs were the same I would prefer a 6 speed over a 5 speed. As for whether or not I would want a Revo in a Buell, I have been riding my V-Rod lately to conserve my S2's rear tire for the upcoming trip to Daytona. While the engine in the V-Rod is great for going in straight lines the chassis does not allow it to be used (effectively) in the curves. Beyond the chassis limitations, the Revo is a wide engine. In order to garner effective clearance (and therefore lean angle) for use in a Buell designed chassis the motor would be so high up that most of the benefits we enjoy in all of our Buell's would be negated. However, if a Revo Buell were to be produced I would have to add it to my personal, growing list of 'must-have' motorcycles. I just think there are too many negatives in using the Revo as a Buell powertrain. 1313 | ||
| Court |
>>>Court own DMH???????????????? No. Not allowed by SEC regs. | ||
| Rox |
1313 - I beg to differ! Where I live there are only twisty roads, and we have no speed limit. My XB9S loves the roads, but my husband's V Rod copes very well indeed. He often scares the sportsbikers!!! they can't abide a Harley that can hustle. | ||
| M1combat |
I don't get you guys... More weight is the WRONG direction for a motorcycle that has even a passing interest in turning. "For a 600lb pig it’s a wonderful machine." I don't doubt that for a second. Stuffing that engine into an XB frame will do nothing but make a 500lb pig that drops in a little quicker... Mid-corner speed would be MURDERED. It's all about maximizing the use of the available grip. Physics proves that adding weight (even though it acts with the force of 1g downwards) still forces a reduction of available lateral grip. That's a fact. Adding weight ANYWHERE for almost ANY reason is a bad idea... Power is NOT the king. We're corner carvers... Would you expect a 5000HP dragster to even BEGIN to have a chance around a road course against a 1000HP F1 car (let alone a used up, smoking VW bus...)? Well... MAYBE the bus... I'll give you that . | ||
| Thepup |
M1,please give up on the weight thing,I am sure they could bring th weight down. | ||
| Imonabuss |
Rox, If your husband can keep up with sportbikers on his V-Rod, it is a testament to his skill level, not the bike. With equal riders, a V-Rod cannot remotely keep up with a sportbike on a windy road. Actually, it won't keep up in a straight line either with a 1000 cc sportbike... And, M1, I doubt if Buell could bring the weight down. 60 or more pounds is a HUGE amount to get off an engine. In 12 years or so, Buell has been able to get the XB engine down maybe 20 lbs from a Sportster. | ||
| Blake |
"the current buell motor is really at the end of it's refinement lifecycle..." Really? And you know this how? I can think of all kinds of improvements that could be incorporated into the existing basic XB engine configuration. Shorter stroke higher revving 1350cc for starters. Turbocharging? Do you think the same about the IL4 engines too? Kinda reminds me of the guy back around the turn of the 19th to the 20th century who claimed that the US patent office could be closed since everything that could be invented had been invented. | ||
| Imonabuss |
M1, I apologize, my comment about the weight shoulda been for the pup. Your comments are dead on target. Weight sucks! | ||
| Budo |
"The company HQ, in what later turned out to be a moved motivated by libido" Now, don't that sound interesting? So, what are the details? | ||
| Thepup |
Imonabuss,there are cosmetic covers on the Revo that could be removed to save weight.I know some ppl will still want the current XB,but I am sure there would be alot who would want a Revo powered Buell.Why not give ppl a choice. | ||
| Budo |
"Turbocharging? " When was the last time a production motorcycle came with a turbo. How would turbocharging affect or seem to affect the reliability of the motorcycles which to many is already suspect? | ||
| M1combat |
A revo powered Buell is called a Street rod. I'm not against water cooling. I'm against adding weight. The revo engine could not be brought down to the same or less weight as an XB engine. It won't happen, and more power is mostly useless when leaned over. These motorcycles are made for cornering. The directions to go are more power and less weight. Do not sacrifice one for the other unless there is a HUGE benefit. It makes no sense to gain 40-50lbs (a conservative estimate methinks) for 15-20 HP (at the most with good reliability). And no... I won't drop the weight issue. It's a bigger issue than just "the weight". It's acceleration, cornering speed, braking and flickability that are the issues... Why do you want to add weight and power by way of a revo engine? It will increase one thing on that list, and reduce the other three. That's not a balanced trade off. It's a losing proposition. IF water cooling takes place (and I believe it both can and will in due time), it will be done correctly. It will not be done in such a way as to make the brilliant little pieces of engineering that are the XB chassis suspension geometry... A 500lb pig. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Harley has posted record profits again and again, without selling unit one to the kids riding the 600's. That doesn't seem to apply here, ALOT of the kids that buy the 600's make stunt bikes out of them and ride H-D's around the rest of the time. Not all, but I know of atleast 20 in my area of town alone... | ||
| Blake |
"When was the last time a production motorcycle came with a turbo. How would turbocharging affect or seem to affect the reliability of the motorcycles which to many is already suspect?" I dunno, how does the new fangled high compression affect the reliability of the motorcycle. Or them darned overhead valves and four separate cams. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if we limit our thinking to what already is, then what might be will be very boring ideed. Personally, I don't put much value in the word "can't." | ||
| Sfarson |
If your husband can keep up with sportbikers on his V-Rod, it is a testament to his skill level, not the bike. With equal riders, a V-Rod cannot remotely keep up with a sportbike on a windy road. Actually, it won't keep up in a straight line either with a 1000 cc sportbike... Enjoy my VRSCA very much, but bye-bye in the curves when on my other more sporting rides. | ||
| Rox |
Iomonabuss & Sfarson - I'll have to let hubby know he's skilled then!! Personally I don't like riding the V-Rod as I find it too heavy just to lift off it's stand. I'd say I'll stick with the XB9S .... but .... I test rode a XB12R 2 weeks ago and preferred it. Pity the dealer wanted to give me a rip-off part exchange price. Cheers  | ||
| Firemanjim |
All the 4 Japanese manufacturers offered turbocharged motorcycles in the early 80's.The Kawi being the most advanced and powerful.They should have kept up the technology because with todays electronics and FI they would rock,as shown by some of the really nice aftermarket stuff for Hayabusas,etc. | ||
| Grndskpr |
All the 4 Japanese manufacturers offered turbocharged motorcycles in the early 80's I THINK the problem is insurance companies, ever apply for insurance and have them ask you if it has a turbo??Mine always asks, i belive they are just way to much to insure, hence they MC companies went to other forms of tech to get the power they or we wanted I suspect if you added a turbo to any bike it would get killed by the cost of insurance not the MC's ability to produce them(to bad but can you imagine how many more people would kill themselves with a thubo Busa, cant imagine) Just a thought R | ||
| Mikej |
NewsScoop: I just accidently found a photo of the newest Buell coming soon to a dealership near you. You've read ride reports of how some of the XB's disappear below you and make you feel as though you are flying through the air, well it appears (apart from missing a few minor details) that the newest 2006+ Buell will totally accomplish that feeling. At first I thought it was a gimick photo art thing, and at first was fooled by the Suzuki name on the rider's sleeve, but when I saw the Hooters name on his pant leg I knew it was true. So, here it is, possibly the first time ever seen on badweb, the new Buell:   Found at http://www.flapix.com/portfolio/art/jpgs/BikeRacer_thumb.jpg | ||
| Midknyte |
That can't be a Buell - the exhaust is in the tail-section.  |
