| Author | Message | ||
     Xlcr |
Well, the general opinion is that the Revo is not suitable. So what's the chance that Erik would consider buying a water-cooled motor from Rotax, KTM, or Highland? All make relatively small and light water-pumpers that make decent power. | ||
| M1combat |
I think you would have a world beater... But remember that if they do that, they are constrained to ?750cc? in FX. I think they would produce less low-end grunt for getting out of tight corners on the street though, that wouldn't be any good. | ||
| Ray_maines |
So what you're saying is that the temp. in Hell is down to about 36 degrees and dropping? | ||
| Reepicheep |
I saw one of those "miracle" engines, forget which one, spec'd as part of the Duke II. By the time the thing is in street trim, the power curve was decent, but not anything remarkable. I have little doubt Buell could do a much better job. Heck, I am not even sure the overall package of that Duke II engine was any better then what rolls off the showroom floor on a 12 right now. For $13000 or so, you can have a brand new seriously kick ••• buell today. Have DaveS deliver a brand new 9 straight to Aaron, and let Aaron finished what the factory started. I don't know exactly what you would end up with, but it would smoke any other bike I can think of anywhere near that price (and some that go for almost twice that). | ||
| Xlcr |
I personally would make that choice. I have been riding a sport bike with a Sportster engine for 28 years, and I'm perfectly happy with the idea. I'm just posting this for the sake of the discussion, to see what people think. | ||
| BadS1 |
This thread is nuts.  LOL | ||
| Court |
>>>Have DaveS deliver a brand new 9 straight to Aaron, and let Aaron finished what the factory started. Scary to think about...that would be a SERIOUSLY mean motorbikal. | ||
| Jrh |
Motorbikal?  That kinda reminds me of that old Arlo Guthry(or however his name is spelled)song. | ||
| X1tx |
Problem with 'buying' an engine is that your company doesn't get much growth in the 'know how' department doing it that way. The Duke II is a severely cool bike, but too expensive for what it is. Also has a limited dealer network as well. Personally, I'd like to see Buell develop a new liquid cooled engine in order to help them broaden their engineering base. But as that would be a 'learning step' for them, prior to release they would have to do extensive road testing on it. So out of the kindness of my heart I'd like to be the first to 'volunteer' to ride one of their new bikes and put a lot of miles and abuse on it.....  | ||
| Blublak |
Hey X1tx, .. I think we've mentioned this before.. I mean, if they did something like that, you in TX, me in VA, etc.etc.etc.. We'd be able to give them a lot of 'real world' riding, in various climates and styles of riding to base their final designs on.. it'd be good for the company.. yeah, that's why we want to do it... right? hehehehehehe.. Not that we'd flog the heck out out of them.. too badly.. heheheheh.. uh, Erik and Co. You guys listening? Later, | ||
| M1combat |
Just for the record... I live in AZ where I could test the heat induced stress capabilities and I WOULD flog the livin' crap out of it  . | ||
| Oneway |
what kind of dependable performance can u get out of the 9 and whats the cost? sorry in advance if this is posted | ||
| M1combat |
Talk to Nallin Racing or Cycle-Rama... | ||
| Charlieboy6649 |
I posted this in the other thread but again, for the sake of being "different", how bout a triple rotor engine good to 12,000! Light weight, good power, and Mazda has worked out reliability through new materials. Also easy to work on... | ||
| Xlcr |
I was thinking that they should keep the air-cooled models and add an expensive water-pumper at the top of the line, much as Ducati has. Their water-cooled models have not stopped the air-cooled ones from being their best sellers. Buell should make an expensive limited production water-pumper just for the halo effect, like the Harley CVO models, not intended for mass production. And while they are at it, why bother to make it only 1000cc? The AMA has already said FX is the class of the future, so keep developing the XB as the racing model, and make the water-cooled bike 1200-1300cc. That way, instead of being only 10 or 15 HP more than an improved XB motor, it could make 130-140 HP and really give the competition a run for its money! I've noticed the newly resurrected Moto Morini has a 1200 v-twin out that's making a claimed 140 HP. One of those or something similar should be just the ticket. Sorry if I keep bringing up buying an engine, but from where I sit, Harley seems to be just too cheap to let Erik develop one of his own. Yes, I know the XB is a ways past a Sporty engine, but they are still saving big $$$ by building it on Sportster tooling. Of course, that keeps the prices down, which is good. But I'm thinking a small number of price no object bikes would do the company a world of good. After all, People may buy Monsters, but it's the 916s, 996s, 999s, that have given Ducati its reputation. | ||
| Budo |
"Problem with 'buying' an engine is that your company doesn't get much growth in the 'know how' department doing it that way." Oh,like Bimoto, they are short on 'know how'. The one time they built a motor in house the V-du, it bankrupted them. The Suzuki 1000cc v-twin is a sweet motor and is used by some other brands in their bikes. Cagava comes to mind. But that is never gonna happen. HD is not gonna put a Japanese motor in their bike. As well as it would work and as much as we would like for it to happen, it won't. Buell seems to be happy making the 10-12 thousand bikes a year that they do. As someone pointed out, a Buell is what it is and if you like that, then fine, if not get something else. | ||
| Xlcr |
None of the engines I mentioned are Japanese. Rotax and KTM are Austrian, Morini is Italian, and Highland is Swedish. Meanwhile, look at Fischer, who has gotten so desperate he's using Korean engines. And as I've already mentioned, I DO like Buells just as they are. I ride a 1977 Harley Cafe Racer, and I like it enough that I've ridden it since new, 28 years now. So it's not that I want a water-cooled Buell for myself, it's that I think attitudes like yours are counter-productive. I personally don't think Harley is satisfied with Buell's sales. They are used to much bigger numbers, and I fear that if Buell doesn't do better soon they may be history. A super fast halo model, even if made in and sold in tiny numbers, would make a huge difference to Buell's reputation. As it is, there are far too many sport riders that look at the spec sheets and write Buells off as slow garbage because of the engine. A big race win, like say, in the Daytona 200, would also be a huge boost to Buell's rep, and I personally think Harley is being criminally stupid not to pony up the money for a full factory effort. Tie that in with the recent wholesale dropping of the Buell franchise by many dealers, and what I see is a company that Harley is losing interest in. I would love to see some evidence to the contrary, but so far I haven't. They are pouring their money into drag racing, and letting Buell die on the vine. The XBs proved that Buell can make a reliable, advanced bike. Now that have to make a popular one, and they are running out of time. Sure, many here can't see this, but these are the diehard fans, out in the big world of sport biking, Buell have yet to prove themselves. The next new Buell model had better be one that impresses everyone, even the hard core doubters, or in my opinion, Buell is toast. (Message edited by xlcr on March 03, 2005) | ||
| Burnmyheartdown |
XLCR: Buell should make an expensive limited production water-pumper just for the halo effect, like the Harley CVO models, not intended for mass production. And while they are at it, why bother to make it only 1000cc? The AMA has already said FX is the class of the future, so keep developing the XB as the racing model, and make the water-cooled bike 1200-1300cc. Except for the fact that in FX, liquid-cooled twins are limited to a maximum displacement of 750 CC. Also, air-cooled twins can go up to 1350 CC with more extensive engine modification than the other classes. | ||
| X1tx |
But you're talking two different bikes I think. The FX bike should be the air cooled pushrod mill. But the 'halo effect' bike would be primarily a street bike made to 'show off' the design talents of the Buell engineers. Evidence is there to show they have some degree of talent there in that they start off with an engine that's overweight and end up with a bike that's real close to fighting weight. I think the XB has a great chassis, now focus that on refining the current platform and generating a new model of engine that won't start you off with a weight penalty. It could be a rocking bike..........  | ||
| Xlcr |
Exactly! Race the air-cooled bikes, and keep them in the lineup as the affordable models. But make a bike that will blow away a Ducati 999 and sell for less. Considering what Ducati wants for one, that should be easy. And as long as you aren't planning to race it, make the engine displace as much as possible. That way it will be equally easy to get big horsepower from it. Built it, Erik, and they will come. |
