| Author | Message | ||
     Ratbuell |
Got home from work last night on the S2T. Pulled it into the shop so I could put on my stock-height windscreen (weather is warming up, don't need the big honker anymore). Put the bike on the lift, go do a couple things, come back...and there's a 3" puddle of oil under the front belt pulley. Never been a drop of anything, anywhere, before. Didn't disassemble anything, but it looks like the output shaft seal is leaking. Oil lines look good, all the oil seems to be coming from/off of the front pulley. I guess being 27 years old, and having less than 8k miles on it...that seal dried out. Surgery time. I'll also check my primary fluid level to make sure my crank seal didn't start leaking, and I'm overfilled in the primary...grrrr.... | ||
| Tigermann |
I worry about the same thing - my S2T with 8,300 miles is a non-op garage queen but I try to start it and putt around a couple of times a week just for that reason. But like you said, its 27 years old so who knows. | ||
| Whisperstealth |
When I saw the title, I though maybe you had wrecked it. Really glad that is not the case! It's a bummer for sure, but a problem you can fix. Better than a grenaded engine! | ||
| Ratbuell |
Eh. I still have the thunderstorm engine out of my wrecked '95....  | ||
| Whisperstealth |
You see the 98 S3T for sale link in the classified section? 19,000 miles, in fantastic condition, with the deep bags and some upgrades. Emerald Green. Great bike. Wants $5K. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Nice...but I already have an S3 Defender project that I need to get in gear and rebuild. Hell, I haven't even found time to get my S1W to the shop and have the cracked header welded up so I can ride it again. Too. Many. Projects. Most of my garage time lately has been putting my '72 Satellite wagon back on the road (and striping the driveway with burnouts); rebuilding the front end on my '70 Charger, getting it aligned, and having a blast driving IT, and entertaining my newest money-suck, my '06 Wrangler 4.0. No wonder I'm always broke...I HAVE to ride motorcycles to work to save money on gas!! | ||
| Ratbuell |
Well, I finally tore into the S2T last night. The seal on the end of the transmission output shaft (center of front belt pulley) is...gone. I can see the needle bearings. Not sure WHY it left, though. Could be a 27 year old piece of rubber that only has 8k miles on it, and it dried out and...left. Could be (although I checked the level and it's not over-full) my crank seal is bad and I'm pumping pressurized engine oil into the primary, and that popped this seal out. I'm gonna get two of the pulley seals, and a crank seal. Put one pulley seal in and see how it goes. If it spits it out, check primary level again and if needed, replace the crank seal and install the second pulley seal. The joys of old $hit. lol | ||
| Falloutnl |
"The joys of old $hit. lol" Haha. Hard to think of a better looking bike than an S2T though... once it's rolling down the road again :P. | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
The reason for loosing the seal could be because the needle bearing is walking out. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I got the new seal installed...but I can see the needle bearing while the seal was out. Is that a "tap it back in" fix? Or indicative of a deeper issue? | ||
| Ratbuell |
Should I tap that inner shelf (guess it's a race) in so the needles are out of sight?  | ||
| Akbuell |
I was putting this stuff on 3X5 cards so I could find them again, but now I can't find the box they were in. Anyway, I seem to remember a thread about this that discussed the problem and offered solutions. Just not where, darn it. Perhaps the UK Buell group? The/a Sportster forum? Crusty? the xb forum? I seem to remember a press fit 'plug' for the end of the shaft. Maybe with a zerk fitting . . . A quick Google search was not helpful. I will try some more. Dave | ||
| Ratbuell |
Yeah, the seal is a press-fit. Metal internals, rubber facing out. Can't imagine the need for a zerk (but I have seen those) since this was pissing primary fluid once the seal left. Maybe the zerk is for when they sit on a sidestand for a long time, and this bearing is pointed uphill? Which brings up a question that's been bothering me - WHY is there a bearing in there?? It doesn't look like the center shaft spins separate from the outer splines...am I missing something? Guess I'll have to pull the seal out again, and check my parts book for an exploded diagram.... | ||
| Ratbuell |
Well, thank you for the tip! I went out tonight, pulled the seal back out without damaging it, grabbed a 7/8" deep socket that was the right diameter, gave it a couple taps and viola! Bearing race was flush with the inner shaft, no needles showing. Same socket drove the seal in flush. We'll see how long it stays - hopefully it's some oddity, and not a machining problem... | ||
| Ratbuell |
Well....it's doing it again. Dripping from the front pulley area. I'm wondering if that bearing hasn't slid out again and is pushing the seal out enough to make things leak. I wonder if I could scribe a groove in there once the bearing race is tapped back in place, and install a retaining ring? Or go Appalachian-Engineering and just jb-weld the bastard in place? Maybe drill small holes through the spline section and drive home a couple pins to hold the bearing race in? I really don't want to keep taking this thing apart every 1k miles.... | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
How tight is the belt adjusted? This situation could be because the belt is or was to tight and made the needle bearing race deformed so it started to walk out. Maybe you could clean the outside of the bearing shell and inside of output axle with brake cleaner. Let it dry and put a little drops of red Loctide on that are. Maybe if that is dry and hardened it keeps the needle bearing in place. Before you put a cap back in and after the Loctide is dry put a bit of transmission oil or lube in there! Talking about a grease fitting ,my xb 12s does have a alloy plug with grease fitting in the output shaft. Got the idea from the ukbeg buell forum and made some for myself on the lathe. There is a whole thread about lubing the needles in the output shaft of the buell motorcycles! | ||
| Upthemaiden |
Mine has the plastic cover on the end of that shaft, so I'm not entirely sure what all is involved there, but is there anything that uses that hole in the center? would you be able to tap the whole, and make a new aluminum spacer/cover that would just hold that bearing/race in place with the bolt keeping it pressed tight so nothing could move? Obviously the correct answer is to pull that shaft out and replace the bearing/race, but just thinking of options that don't involve going inside the engine. | ||
| Falloutnl |
At least it's not an XB so you don't have to split the engine casing lol. Did that with my dad when that exact bearing went on my Ulysses, sigh. | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
https://www.ukbeg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7 42 | ||
| Ratbuell |
The bike currently has about 8,300 miles on it. No, not a typo. I bought it at 7086 miles. Belt is the correct, "scary-loose". Looking at the swingarm, it always has been (judging by axle nut marks)...but can't say for sure. I may look into one of those grease nipple setups, even though they're for XB. I'll measure/compare my Uly to the S2 first... | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
The grease fittings are useable for the xb and tubers! | ||
| Upthemaiden |
All of these random issues... primary tensioner, oil pump drive gear, bearings in the front pulley shaft, clutch grenade plate... I'd assume these are all things that would affect sportsters too, which are one of the most commonly sold bikes on the road. You'd think they would've had all of these kinks worked out well before these engines ended up in tubers, right?? Do people with sportsters have to fix all of these random things too, or do they just seem to affect Buells? | ||
| Falloutnl |
Perhaps it's because those transmissions and final drives didn't have quite as much power going through 'em? | ||
| Ratbuell |
The S2 was a STOCK sporty motor, with different intake and exhaust and that's all. Heavy flywheels and everything. I think the main difference is, Buell owners RIDE their motorcycles; Harley owners tend to look at their motorcycles, and on perfect weather days they may do a local poker run with them...but that's about it. Especially old Evo sporty owners, because quite frankly those bikes SUCKED to ride. Top heavy, floppy steering, crap brakes, and shook so bad you'd lose fillings. They never got enough road time to expose these issues! That said, I suspect a lot of the issues I'm having with this particular S2T are because of its low mileage. It sat. A LOT. I'm trying to remedy that...but finding all these "features" in the process. I do still have my old, 35k mile engine (thunderstorm top end, X1 cams, XB rocker boxes) from my totaled '95...I guess I *could* drop that in this frame...but it's so nice having a bone-stock, all-original bike... | ||
| Falloutnl |
"Especially old Evo sporty owners, because quite frankly those bikes SUCKED to ride. Top heavy, floppy steering, crap brakes, and shook so bad you'd lose fillings. They never got enough road time to expose these issues!" True I suppose. "The S2 was a STOCK sporty motor, with different intake and exhaust and that's all. Heavy flywheels and everything." Ah right. Didn't know that. "I do still have my old, 35k mile engine (thunderstorm top end, X1 cams, XB rocker boxes) from my totaled '95...I guess I *could* drop that in this frame...but it's so nice having a bone-stock, all-original bike..." Yeah, understandable. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Yes, the S2 got a bone-stock, Evo 1200 "crate motor" from HD. Not even a cam swap. Later Lightning motors had different cams and, I believe, lighter flywheels; 98-up Thunderstorm motors got different cams again, a different top end, higher compression, better heads, definitely had the lighter flywheels. EFI tubers were basically injected Thunderstorm motors (I think, again, with their own cam profiles). But yea, the S2 was bone-stock HD with a better intake setup, better exhaust, and different advance curve in the ignition. Of course, someone like Court or Brankin can feel free to step in here and correct me.... | ||
| Upthemaiden |
I agree a lot of sportsters just sit, and don't run into the same issues they would if the motors were pushed... but if you're saying a lot of your issues are caused by your bike having low mileage, then I'd think issues like this one your dealing with would be common on a sportster that just spends most of it's life sitting in a garage. I have seen a few guys talking about the grenade plate in the clutch, but I haven't spent much time looking to see if they have the same issues with the tensioner or oil pump gear. My dad has an early 90's sportster 883 that he's had since I was a teenager. I figure if he ever decides to get rid of it, I'd offer to buy it just for sentimental value, and honestly doubt I'd really ride the thing much either, but I guess I'd get my chance to see if that motor has any similar issues. | ||
| 1313 |
But yea, the S2 was bone-stock HD with a better intake setup, better exhaust, and different advance curve in the ignition. I seem to recall that the transmission had slightly different gearing, too. Something like Swiss gearing if my memory is working correctly. But I've honestly 'lost' LOTS of facts since those stellar times 30 years ago. YES, 30 - THIRTY - years ago! Where does the time go?!?! | ||
| Ratbuell |
the transmission had slightly different gearing, too Ah, the joys of the trap door transmission. Shame they ditched that design in the XB's... | ||
| Ratbuell |
Well, it keeps sliding that needle bearing out. Dammit. WHY didn't they notch the inside of the main shaft, for a snap ring??? If I could weld (never learned...dammit) I'd just burn a couple spots to hold that race to the outer shaft and be done with it... Used my last spare seal plug (12030, if anyone needs the part number for some reason), after tapping that bearing back into place with a socket again. I need to find my old '95s swingarm brace, without the plastic, so I can see this thing after each ride (without disassembling anything) and see exactly how quickly it spits that bearing out. I guess I need to try and source a new main shaft assembly....time to hit the manuals and find numbers and stuff, and plan a winter project - pull the primary, pull the trans, pull and replace the mainshaft... Wheee. |
