| Author | Message | ||
     Conv90 |
I'm ending the checks and all the little problems on my "new" for me S1W. one thing that make me crazy is a noise coming from under the front windshield/fairing. I can hear it while i'm driving and it comes from under the front fairing. I think is from the speedo or the tack. It seems a "drag" noise, or wires that are moving and touching plastic things each other . OR probably it's the sound of the plastic numbers of the speedo rotating. If I push hard on speedo/tach nothing change. They are perfect seated with almost new anti-vibration thickness. Sometimes it seems a noise like sparks produced by 2 wires with current that are touching producing a spark . another problem is the primary chain noise. It seems it is touching the internal side of the primary cover. I tried all the kind of tension but I still hear the chain noise. the other problem is the rear plastic fender vibrating. Especially in Neutral revving it. The part covering the belt is moving so much that produces a bad vibration sound. Thanks for your help. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
Can you hear the noise if you're standing next to the bike in the driveway, or do you hear it when you're riding? Does it do it idling at a light, or only when you're moving? I can't say it's not something under the windshield, but I can say windshields are deceptively sneaky at taking random engine and other noises from below, and kinda redirecting them straight towards your head and making it sound like that's where the noise comes from. It seems like just how the fairing was designed to deflect and redirect the air in front of the bike, they can also collect the noises from below and shoot them up under the windshield at you. Also, does your windscreen still have that foam strip that's meant to go between it and the gauges? My primary chain used to make a horrible noise at low RPMSs, I had the tension set exactly how people on the forum recommended. I eventually just kept tightening it slightly until the noise stopped. The last time I had the primary cover off you could definitely see where the chain was rubbing. If you've tried other tensions though, that's probably not helpful. Definitely sounds like your chain needs to be a little tighter though. The hugger.... not sure there's much you can do about that one. When my bike idles everything is shaking like crazy. I've had license plate mounts crack, I've tried making a few different mini fenders that hang down below the plate a few inches to stop some of the water from hitting me in the back, those all crack. I switched to the X1 swingarm so my hugger is different, can't remember, but are you possibly able to slot the mounting holes slightly so you can slide the whole hugger to the right a little bit? I understand the revving in neutral because you said it's a "new for me" S1... but the easiest solution is probably to stop revving it while it's in neutral, that's for Harley riders trying to get attention at redlights.  | ||
| Ratbuell |
The noise in the fairing could be the speedometer cable. Make sure there's no kinks; disconnect it from the gauge and pump some dri-slide cable lube into it. Primary shoe could be worn/dryrotted and broken. I'd pull the primary cover to be sure. For the hugger, you can loosen the bolts that hold it to the swingarm and kinda "bind" it some by shifting it on the screws, holding in place, then tighten the screws. May make it better; may make it worse. Trial and error, it WILL change it, you just have to figure out the magic setting. | ||
| Conv90 |
Upthemaiden and Ratbuell , thank you! 1) the buzzing/rattle at the fairing it's annoying but i can live with it. Actually I can hear it only in motion/riding especially if i put my head a bit lower (like to be at the level of the fairing). If I stay normal with face (with open helmet) over the level of fairing the noise is much less. There is nothing (foam strip) between the internal side of the fairing and the two gauges. I can't find in the part catalog. So I don't know if it's missing. The noise it's not speed related (the rate doesn't change with speed), but I'm quite sure it's related to speedometer (or better the odometer clocking the numbers). 2) about the primary chain noise , it's not a terrible whining , more a "ping like" sound. I hear it when I slightly accelerate from 2500-3000 rpm even if really gently. I asked to myself if it's actually Ping/detonation and NOT chain related, but I know how the ping sound is. It's similar but different. I'm (day by day ) reducing the deflection just to see if something changes. I have the new primary shoe in order to replace the original thinner one. But I have to say that the shoe can be regulated in a good manner and with direct feeling between the allen wrench and the change in the chain tension. The rear fender: (I don't know if it's a "hugger" ... I don't know what "hugger means...) see the plastic fender I have:  it has 2 mounting points at the right side and 1 at the left side. The missing point is in my opinion at the front part of the swingarm. There is a little round plastic plug with a Harley logo (see arrow), supposed to be the perfect mounting point at this location, but this plug is not functional because the swingarm under the plug has no holes or threaded holes.  The plastic fender vibrates especially at idle when I let the bike warming up . Probably it vibrates even more when I ride , but I can't hear it (so no problem until I'll loose it  ) | ||
| Ratbuell |
The plug should be a screw; at least, it is on my S1W and my S2T (both steel swingarm bikes like yours). Try this for the fairing noise - unhook the speedo cable from the front hub, and ride it. See if the noise is gone. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
I think the fender probably vibrates way more at idle than it does when you're riding. The bikes smooth out a good bit once the rpms increase. As far as the fender noise... I'd just undo those 2 bolts on the right side, stick some washers/spacers between the fender and the swingarm, and put the bolts(or longer ones depending on how thick your spacers are). They're flexible enough that you should just be able to move that side out enough that it won't hit the belt or pulley at all. For the foam piece on the windscreen, but sure about a part number, but at one point I replaced one with a piece of foam weather stripping from home depot. It doesn't need to be anything special, just whatever will take up that gap between the fairing and the gauges. It'll keep the windscreen from vibrating on them, and it'll help muffle any noise that would've snuck through there. Just go on ebay or somewhere else and look for pictures of S1/X1/M2 windscreens, I'm sure you'll eventually find a picture of one with the foam piece on to see what I'm referring to. Not sure about the primary noise. Mine was definitely more of a metal scraping noise than a pinging. There wasnt any mistaking what it was when I heard my bike doing it. Even if the plastic of the belt tensioner came off, there's no reason it wouldn't still let you adjust chain tension with it, it would just be metal on metal instead of metal on plastic. Either way, if you've got the new adjuster coming, when you pull the primary cover off you should be able to see if the chain has been hitting something pretty easily. | ||
| Conv90 |
The vibration on the plastic fender it's a NO-problem . It vibrates ? Ok it's not a real problem. The noise at the fairing it's the same , not a real problem. I found a piece of foam (the one used to be under the 12V battery) . I'll try to use it. I wanted to remove the speedo cable , but i'ts too much work for now. I'll diagnose this problem later or in Springtime. The chain/noise is a problem because I do not feel ok hearing this sound. About the shoe/tensioner/chain , sincerely I expect to see something in the primary, because the noise is still present. I'll wait for the new tensioner before to open the primary. I can't imagine the plastic/delrin shoe ruined. My 1990 Sportster (different shoe and leverage) has the original plastic like new after MORE than a quart of million of kilometers. | ||
| Conv90 |
here the culprit: The tensioner the shoe is worn and the THIN steel plate is cracked! the internal side of primary cover is damaged by the chain . I replaced with the new thicker one. I need a road test    | ||
| Ocbueller |
Classic tensioner fail, glad you got it fixed. | ||
| Conv90 |
Ride test done. Unfortunately the scraping/ping noise is still present. At the beginning (the first half kilometrer) I heard no noise, but after that i heard it. Is the triple chain supposed to be tight when the bike is hot OR loose? Is it possible that the chain is stretched and at the service limit? I ask because the chain is yes at the loose side but near to FSM specs. | ||
| 89rs1200 |
Very important to read and follow the adjustment instructions in the service manual for primary chain adjustment. ~ Very important to rotate the motor to check the chain slack at different points! These chains do NOT stretch evenly! ~ Adjust at the point where the chain is at it's least slack. Keeps one from over tightening the primary chain. ~ The "scary loose" slack adjustment is for the belt and NOT the primary chain, so follow the manual instructions! Note the belt "scary loose" is to save bearing wear of the transmission output bearing, at the front sprocket. (Message edited by 89rs1200 on March 04, 2023) | ||
| Conv90 |
Yes I was referring to chain not to belt. and when I said: "..at the loose side but near to FSM specs" this means that: Chain freeplay with hot engine 1/4-3/8 in. (6.4-9.5 mm) I used 3/8" Chain freeplay with cold engine 3/8-1/2 in. (9.5-12.7 mm) I used about 12mm But today (after the scraping/rubbing sound was still present) I've changed and used the tight side specs: 1/4" hot 3/8" cold. Still with scraping sound. I asked if the chain can be stretched because I use the tight spot method and if the tight spot is correct , PROBABLY the others parts of the chain are too loose. About the belt I use a scary loose belt , but lately I had to remove some freeplay , because it was too "scary loose". Sometimes it was jumping a tooth | ||
| Upthemaiden |
Exactly what my primary cover looked like. I had adjusted my chain to the recommended spec, and think I even did it according to the Buellistic instructions, but it still made the noise. I just kept tightening it up slightly until it quit making the noise, and it's been good since. | ||
| Conv90 |
I'm still here for the same problem. I still hear the scraping noise even if the chain is at LESS than the 1/4" hot - 3/8" cold. Just guessing what the problem can be. If with removed inspection cover i push with force the chain UP, trying to reach the scraped point of the primary case, I can't! I mean: If I push with big force the chain at point A or B , I can't reach the points of contacts 1 and or 2 !  | ||
| 89rs1200 |
Sounds like you did everything correctly. Unless extreamly out of adjustment, you will not be able to get the chain to touch the case by moving it at the adjustment hole. Also that new chain tensioner will need to wear in, so will need another adjustment some miles after install. May need a new primary chain. Because chains stretch unevenly, the tight spot slack and the loose spot slack may just be too great. (Slack part of chain has just stretched too much to stop it from touching after the tight spot adjustment has been done.) (Message edited by 89rs1200 on April 13, 2023) | ||
| 89rs1200 |
Just to be clear we are hearing the primary chain noise. I hear the primary chain noise touching the case as a slapping noise. Happens intermittently depending on power application. | ||
| Conv90 |
I still ear the noise. I ear it when I accelerate NORMAL (not too fast not too slow -a medium good acceleration-) from 2000 rpm and the noise appears a second or 2 later (say at 3000?). Curious is that if I lug the engine by purpose (says open the gas at sub 2000 rpm in 5th gear) I ear no noise at all. A loose engine sprocket nut can cause this? Excessive wobble at the clutch hub can cause this? | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
Isn't it pinging of the Engine that you hear!? | ||
| Conv90 |
I'm sure is not pinging detonation. I know the "sound" of pinging engine. In addition a very prone to detonation action is lugging the engine by purpose (says open the gas at sub 2000 rpm in 5th gear " ). No noise . I can hear it in the lower Left side just in the primary. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Have you checked your primary output sprocket (front sprocket) to make sure you don't have a wobbling sprocket? The sound i heard was a squeaking from the drive belt (from a full stop) up to about 32kmh and a squeaking coming back down through the gears from about 32kmh to a full stop. i did not hear it at all during the ride, just from the start in first gear and back down to first or second gear to a full stop. Had to replace sprocket as teeth were work down. Also replaced the nut, screws, and the plate. You will need loctite too. Follow the Field Service Manual for correct adjustment. Best wishes Beppe.  edited for clarification-SVT (Message edited by two_seasons on April 21, 2023) | ||
| 89rs1200 |
As I said before, May need a new primary chain. Because chains stretch unevenly, the tight spot slack and the loose spot slack may just be too great. (Slack part of chain has just stretched too much to stop it from touching after the tight spot adjustment has been done.) If the chain is 3/8" slack at one point, move motor forward and the chain is noticeably more than 5/8" slack, need a new chain. | ||
| Conv90 |
Two_seasons , I I have no squeaking, it's a rattle sound, typical of chain rubbing on internal side of primary chain cover. When I'll re-open the primary I'll check for sure for some wobble on front sprocket. Looking at some pictures I have the teeth are ok. Thanks! | ||
| Conv90 |
89rs1200, The very strange thing is that I passed all the single chain links, rotating the rear wheel. I can't find even a tight spot. In real I can always find a supposed "tight spot" , but not always in the same place. And If I have to say the difference between a tight spot and a loose spot it's less than 1/16"! A question: is the OEM triple primary chain supposed to be a Diamond(brand) chain ? Looking at pictures I have I can see that the chain is a Diamond chain. Thanks for your help | ||
| Two_seasons |
Conv90: Sorry about my words confusing you. What i am talking about is YOUR DRIVE BELT front sprocket. It is real easy to check. There may be play in that too. Glad you are determined to find the source of this metal to metal sound. You will fix this problem Beppe! Best regards, Steve Van Trieste | ||
| Conv90 |
Two_seasons, I already paid this situation LOL  http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/476 23/894455.html?1665835765 | ||
| 89rs1200 |
Conv90 you have me stumped. ~ Be sure to check chain tension when in neutral so the rear chain sprocket can freely rotate. ~ All my Buell's chains have tight and loose sections. ~ Do not know if Diamond is the stock brand of chain. | ||
| Conv90 |
I asked about the OEM brand installed because I have the doubt that the previous owner might replaced the original 94 links chain with a Diamond 96 links . But... I have to remove the primary cover again. I made some changes in the past days. Changed the plugs with Champion RC6HC (back cut with a file). Swapped 12 lbs of a AMG battery with 2 lbs lithium battery. Replaced front original pegs (I hate them because they are cushoned rubber) . I used some HD pegs just the time to find some aluminum knurled ones. Removed the front wheel and I noticed that the nut was too tight that I suspect they were compressing the bearing too much. SO i reinstalled the wheel torqueing the 4 bolts securing the axle in a right way and reinstalling the nut. The forks were almost convergent/not parallel (less distance in the lower side than the top side) All these mods are in the direction of having the bike more like I prefer. What I don't like of this bike is that it's too "filtered" , I have lack of feedback from the asphalt. I need to have it more "direct" feel. Thinking to change the rear rubber isolators to a more stiffer/mixed material. | ||
| Stonemaster |
did you say pinging? that can be something totally diff | ||
| Conv90 |
It's not pinging. I'm sure. It's chain scraping mixed fast ticking sound/noise. It happens between 3000-3200 to 4000-4200 rpm if I open the gas more than 30-40%. No noise under 3000 at all throttle gas positions (including WOT). Yesterday I filled the tank with my preferred 100 Octane gas (the one I'm used to use for my 90 c.i. Sportster in very hot summer days.) If it was pinging, the high octane gas would prevent the noise to happens. The scraping/ticking noise is still present. Coming from the lower side.... it can be the oil pump? I had lose rods on my sportster and the noise was more gloomy/deep. BTW the bike runs perfectly. | ||
| Conv90 |
could you believe it?? How to remove this damn engine sprocket nut?  |
