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Archive through May 17, 2020Upthemaiden30 05-17-20  07:54 am
         

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Captainkirk
Posted on Monday, May 18, 2020 - 01:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would install a new clip regardless. Ask me why...




(Message edited by captainkirk on May 18, 2020)
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Matrim
Posted on Monday, May 18, 2020 - 06:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I’ll be doing that this weekend. Just browsed through the manual for instructions on removing the transmission. Is it really necessary to remove the transmission sprocket on the right side? Was hoping all I had to do was remove the 5 bolts on the access door to slide it out. Any tips are greatly appreciated, this is new territory for me.

Why would you install a new clip regardless captainkirk? ; )
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Captainkirk
Posted on Monday, May 18, 2020 - 09:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Why would you install a new clip regardless captainkirk? ; )

Unless you enjoy pulling the primary down every 5000 miles...just sayin'.

And no, you do NOT need to pull 5th gear or the final drive sprocket to get the trans out. See here:

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/47623/868946.html?1588213620

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/476 23/811626.html?1589841070

}

(Message edited by Captainkirk on May 18, 2020)
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Matrim
Posted on Saturday, May 23, 2020 - 03:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks! About to go remove the transmission then I thought I’d take another look at the clutch and realized I don’t really know what I’m looking for. For the most part everything looks good but figured I’d post some pictures and see if anyone more experienced saw some glaring imperfections. Thickness of the 8 friction plates is about .68” (manual says .66 minimum, but I couldn’t find what they start out at.) they are slightly grubby.

Steel plates all seem perfectly flat.

Clutch basket spins freely. There’s a few songs on the top as shown in picture.


Friction



Basket



Bearing


Thanks again for all the help
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Matrim
Posted on Saturday, May 23, 2020 - 08:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Went out to inspect again, and since last weekend when I removed the primary chain, clutch basket and crankshaft sprocket, some oil pooled in the case. I guess I’ll add crankshaft seal to the to-do list. Is this a difficult job? Are specialized tools required? It never leaked until I removed the nut from the sprocket, I don’t suppose that’s normal?

I also noticed that the RTV? around the stator is cracked. Is this something I need to fix, if so do I just put some more on or do I need to remove all the old stuff?

Here’s some pics for reference.


Stator



Crankshaft
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Mikes_bikes
Posted on Sunday, May 24, 2020 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A doctor friend once told me that if you tell him to find a problem, he will darn well find one that may or may not have been the cause of your original concern. It seems like
time to step back and refocus here. I am fairly sure the oil seeping past the crankshaft spacer will reseal when the crank bolt is installed and tightened. And the potting material on the stator would be better not cracked, but it is not an immediate concern.

With the clutch removed and the gearbox in neutral, can you turn the input shaft easily with your fingers? If so, reconsider the possibility that the clutch was dragging. Take another look at the spring plate, make absolutely sure it is not spreading apart. Is the clutch release original, or aftermarket "Easy" type which reduces the travel and can cause dragging unless the cable is adjusted up quite tightly? Any chance that the gearbox was overfilled or oil was too thick? Hang in there and don't let this job get the better of you.

Edit: There is no spec for thickness of the spring plate (aka, grenade plate) in the shop manual that I can find. Since I removed mine with less than 2000 miles of easy use, it should be representative as "A-OK". It measures .201" thickness consistently around its circumference.



(Message edited by Mikes bikes on May 25, 2020)
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Matrim
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 12:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ooof, thanks for the reply and sorry for the late response, I didn’t see the notification.

I put it in neutral and the input shaft spun easily. I’ll need to borrow some calipers again, but the spring plate looks immaculate to the naked eye. The clutch release is stock. I don’t think the gearbox has been overfilled, but would that cause these symptoms? I use mobile 1 v twin for engine and primary. Is the primary the same as the ‘gearbox’?

I’ve read about a bunch of people who seem to have similar problems saying their throwout bearing went bad. I think mine is fine - you can see it in the picture above - but I’m just looking for obvious failure, I don’t really know what they look like when they actually fail.

Thanks again
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Captainkirk
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 10:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A while back Reepicheep (I think it was him) had reported issues with the stator windings breaking down after using Mobil 1 in the primary. I can't find the link now to the thread.
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Blake
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 11:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mobil 1 does not degrade stator windings. Stator windings are coated with an insulating varnish like sealant. If Mobil 1 gets to the copper winding, then the winding has already failed.
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Steveford
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It is Mobil 1 GEAR OIL which will do in the stator, not regular old Mobil 1 15W50.
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Mikes_bikes
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 11:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Multi-grade motor oil is okay for the primary case/clutch/gear case - they share the same compartment in our bikes. It's not what Harley recommends, but people do it and it doesn't seem to cause a problem.

Edit - To clarify,the engine does NOT share its oil with the gear case. Harley recommends a specific transmission fluid for the primary case/clutch/gear case ... but people use multigrade oil without issues.

If the input shaft is spinning easily, I don't think your "dragging" problem is in the gearbox. The clutch release (or throw-out) bearing is the one at the center of the outer release plate. You should be able to see any damage by looking inside the bearing at the balls and races. Also, if it was so bad as to be causing the clutch to drag, you would be able to feel obvious roughness and/or looseness while spinning it with your fingers. One thought I did have, if the crankshaft seal was leaking then the primary/clutch/gear case could have overfilled with engine oil. Having said that, I don't really think that your crank seal is leaking. Once the crankshaft bolt is loosened, oil can flow around the spacer on the crankshaft and make it appear to be leaking. If it was me, I'd carefully check everything in the clutch and reassemble it.

(Message edited by Mikes bikes on June 24, 2020)
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Matrim
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - 10:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Okay, that’s a mild relief, was worried it was something in the gearbox. The throwout bearing spins smoothly. The adjustment bolt does have a small amount of play (about 1/16”) when I pull it, but I imagine that’s normal.

I think you’re right about the crank shaft seal being fine. My primary oil looked brand new when I drained it.

I guess I’ll just grab some extra clutch plates to replace the grenade plate and put it back together. Would you recommend cleaning the plates in some way?
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89rs1200
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - 01:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Multi-grade motor oil is NOT used in early Evo. motor transmissions! 1998 and earlier use "Sport Trans" fluid, which is about 70 to 90 weight gear oil.
Believe it was about 2000 when they combined the transmission with the engine in a way that shared oil.
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89rs1200
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - 01:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Matrim,
"I also noticed that the RTV? around the stator is cracked".
Not RTV, but an epoxy.
That is where the solid wires of the stator are crimped to the stranded wires. This is where all my stator failures have occurred. The connection fails here, burns the wires and epoxy. Yet that connection is always crimped and not soldered!!

Cracking is not an issue, unless you see black from the burning connection.
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Mikes_bikes
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - 03:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sorry, I meant to say that the primary chain, clutch and gearbox share the same fluid, not the engine. Nonetheless, people have used
multi-grade engine oil in the gearbox without problems.

(Message edited by Mikes Bikes on June 24, 2020)
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Wah64apache
Posted on Monday, June 29, 2020 - 02:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I just replaced the clutch in my 01 Cyclone with a Barnett “extra plate” kit that does away with that spring plate in the center of your stock HD clutch. That plate can come apart under hard use.
The primary chain case holds the oil for the Crank drive sprocket, chain, clutch and transmission And the starter drive pawl.
What is the viscosity of the oil you are putting in Primary case and also in your engine oil tank? Primary oil is different from engine oil. As a matter of fact you can use ATF in your Primary. I use Redline Gearbox oil. Not cheap but the top rated oils never are. I use 10W60 full synthetic in the engine. I live in the Phoenix valley where OAT can reach 120+ degrees. Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W50 is fine.
What Mike said is very true, if the system is working, leave it alone. Cheers, Frank
}
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Matrim
Posted on Saturday, July 18, 2020 - 04:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just picked up an energy one clutch pack and spring plate after seeing how much Harley wanted for a few replacement plates. Reading through instructions I saw that synthetic is not recommended. Is redline gear oil still okay? I’d use formula plus but it’s a pain to get. Had planned on using my mobile 1 vtwin 20w50 but it’s synthetic. Any ideas?
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Gusm2
Posted on Sunday, July 19, 2020 - 05:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I also use an energy one set up in my M2 and use it hard still use HD spotty trans and so far all good
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Gusm2
Posted on Sunday, July 19, 2020 - 06:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I meant sport trans
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Mikes_bikes
Posted on Sunday, July 19, 2020 - 06:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Why not follow the clutch manufacturer's recommendation? You will probably be fine either way but no sense in adding more "unknowns" to the equation.
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Matrim
Posted on Monday, July 20, 2020 - 08:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Finally got the bike back together with the new clutch and lo and behold, she lives! No idea what was wrong with the old clutch - if anything- but I’m liking the energy one, plus I’m happy to be rid of the grenade plate. Seems to be smoother shifting and I don’t even notice a harder pull at the handle. Neutral is definitely a bit harder to find tho. Thanks for all the help!

If anyone’s wondering, I ended up putting red line vtwin primary case oil in. I know I should probably use the HD stuff but it’s a long drive to go pick up. According to some other buellers who called energy one, redline works with their clutch because they don’t have certain additives. I dunno, I’m just happy it works. 😁
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Captainkirk
Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 11:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just FYI...St Paul Buell will ship to you if you want to stay with the HD primary fluid.
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