| Author | Message | ||
     Johnnyxb9 |
ANYONE TRY THIS YET. SINCE MY XB WAS STOLEN IVE BEEN CONSIDERING A M2 CYCLONE BUT I WANT MORE MORE MORE...IVE HEARD OF PEOPLE DOING THIS AND WAS CONSIDERING BUYING AN M2 OR S1. THE M2 IS CLEAN WITH 5000 "ADULT MILES" hehehe BUT I REALLY WANT THE INVERTED FRONT END. P.S. THE CYCLONE IS AN 01. | ||
| Joplin |
Yeah,, check out Nallin Racing Heads Service,, NRHS , they got a pretty good deal going there with the XB heads and porting etc. they are a sponser here so at least take a look see,, jm | ||
| Djkaplan |
Would stock XB heads with no porting really make a difference? If it did, would you have to use the pistons too? | ||
| Loki |
DJ The heads are a bolt on item. A couple of things to note though. The NRHS front mount will make your life easier. Besides it is real nice looking. If the motor in the M2 is a T-storm, you will need to relieve the heads for the squish or revert back to a flat-top piston. My S1 is currently getting the XB top end treatment. | ||
| Thunderdome |
You can get an inverted front end, tripleclamps and all from an X1 or 99 and later S3 will switch right over. 98 and earlier had cable speedo drives, and will need a spacer from a 99-02 inplace of it. | ||
| Thunderdome |
"Possibly" was suppose to go in between "earlier" and "had" , so kill me  | ||
| Spiderman |
I have the XB heads and with the pipe an intake I was runnin lighting cams with 91 HP I threw in the 536 cams and I am waiting to get her tuned in right, the positive cable was grounding out causing a drain (didn't find this out till later) but with the cable grounding out it was still pulling a strong 93! I also put S2 forks on with stock rim, rotor an caliper, even used a stock M2 axle! | ||
| Blake |
Owen (Thunderdome), Feel free to edit your post by clicking on the little notepad icon (  ) located in the upper right corner of your post.  | ||
| Phillyblast |
Just ordered up a set of XB heads, "E" grind cams, Dyna 2000 ignition and motor mount from NRHS It'll be the winter project. Here's what the current power output looks like.  The red curve is stock the blue is with the Dyna 2000 installed. Stout, huh?  I seriously considered going with the full 1250 kit, but decided simpler was better, given my relative inexperience. Buddy of mine is supervising/assisting, and I didn't want to try his patience too much. Can't wait to see what it puts out after I'm done. It gets anywhere close to Spidey #s I'll be a very happy camper. | ||
| Spiderman |
What lift are those E-grind cams? | ||
| Phillyblast |
.551 - they're essentially the same grind as XB cams. | ||
| Phat_j |
ok..... hereeee we go, you should definatly go with the 1250 kit as it is no more difficult to do than to just change your heads, cuz when you change your heads you take pressure off of your base gaskets, and guess what, they will leak, so they need to be changed as well, therefore your entire top end needs to come apart... on the bright side, its easy as pie.... treat the 1250 kit just as you would the 1200.... and by the way, i just did this job last week, with stock xb heads, 1250 kit, 536 cams, mik42 carb, force exhaust........ pullin a strong 103hp, and 88lbs of torque.... this thing is scary fast.... | ||
| Tripp |
here's a good question stock xb heads or ported thunderstorms? how much does a set of xb heads go for anyway? | ||
| Phillyblast |
Tripp, XB heads with breather holes tapped (black with highlighted fins) list at about $725 fully assembled from NRHS. Can't get 'em assembled from HD. That's with stock springs, etc. Lots of options to consider, like what cams, are you sticking with stock rocker boxes or changing to the XB breather setup? I went with the XB heads because the S2 has XL heads on it, and flattops. So it was a natural choice, considering the greater "upside" of the XB design for future mods. Which is to say, "I dunno" My choice was easy since the difference between the XB and XL heads was so extreme, and I could stick with the stock pistons (for now- PhatJ has me thinkin'). Yeah, that doesn't help at all, does it? | ||
| Tripp |
hehe thanks for the reply kinda helps, the more info the better. | ||
| Racerx1 |
Tripp, I've run XB top end on both of my tuber race bikes. completely stock unported XB heads are worth 5rwhp vs. completely stock thunderstorm heads. I also run XB9 pistons for a 12.7:1 compression ratio when installed in a 1200. I run a screaming eagle programable ignition on ignition curve #3 on 93 octane pump gas, no knock issues. I tapped the breather boss for the carb bracket, but run XB covers and breathers. Great performing package. Evrything is bolt on except for the front mount (I run a Nallin mount and recomend it). | ||
| Tripp |
thanks for the info! although my next step is going to have to be an exhaust due to mine kinda crapping the bed lately. | ||
| Phat_j |
here we go again........ stock xb heads are very close to equal to stage 3 thunderstorm heads... so the choice is very easy.... xb all the way...i've done the comparison.... or call aaron.. he'll tell ya | ||
| Phillyblast |
J, Thanks for the info - I'm even happier I went with the XB heads now. 'Course, now ya got me thinkin' on the 1250 kit now. Grrrrrr. | ||
| Phat_j |
do the 1250 its no more labor intensive, and worth every penny.... | ||
| Tripp |
that's very enlightening, xb=stage3 thunderstorm wow huge price difference, i'm so glad i kept an eye on this thread! and yes the 1250 kit is worth every penny. | ||
| Aaron |
That hasn't been my experience at all ... phat j's excellent result notwithstanding. His bike is the exception. A good Stage 3 Thunderstorm can easily hit peak flow numbers above 160cfm. Stock XB heads rarely break 130cfm. | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
There's some interesting comparisons here- XB v Thunderstorm, SE551 v SE536 camshafts. I haven't seen any dyno's of SE551 v SE536's. Any body got opinions on the various benefits/downsides of the combinations/permutations of camshafts and heads? Steve Shakeshaft steve_s@ukbeg.com www.ukbeg.com | ||
| Tripp |
aaron, so if you had to guess would you say maybe stage1 thunderstorm heads=stock xb heads? maybe stage 1 1/2? | ||
| Phillyblast |
Aaron, Thoughts on the base gasket issue/do it all at once thing? Besides the "I'll be in there anyway" part of it, that is. I haven't taken the heads off the bike yet, so aside from the fact that it currently has good comp. etc. I don't know for sure what it looks like. 15K on the bike, some of that pretty hard riding just maaaybe I oughta think about it as preventative medicine? Plus I know you've mentioned you like the t-storm pistons and cut the chamber for the 15 deg. squish? David | ||
| Aaron |
Tripp, my experience more or less matches what RacerX1 said. Not that there aren't exceptions in both directions. Phat got an exceptional result. I suspect part of that is him paying attention to detail as he did the work. David, Phat J is right, there's a risk of inducing a base gasket leak when you take the heads off because you've removed the clamp load. And at that point, all the fasteners are off and there ain't much to it to go ahead and pull the cyls and pistons (may need a wrist pin puller tho). Take a close look at your squish, if you're like me you may decide to use 3-bond 1104 for your base gasket. Yes, I prefer angled squish bands over flat squish bands. At 15K miles on stock pistons and rings and cylinders, ring seal has normally started to degrade. Not that you can't run it farther. Basically, your options in ascending order of cost are to just put it back together, hone it and change the rings and put it back together, bore & hone it and replace the pistons and rings, or go 1250 kit. Clamping the cylinders in a torque plate and going up and down them with a bore gauge may be useful in helping decide. I'll warn you, though, sometimes a cylinder will scare you to death when you do that. You wonder how the motor even ran. | ||
| Tripp |
philly, if you have the money and you plan on going all out with the motor now is probably a good time to do the 1250, if your low on cash you'll have to do it piecemail like me(get the upgraded replacement when something breaks). chances are if you do the 1250 w/the xb heads cams and good exhaust you'll probably increase your hp by damb near 30% that'll be a huge difference on the butt dyno! so far i've only done the 1250 kit(the previous owner did the buell race kit) so i only have the experience of the one upgrade and i can definitely feel the difference. it would be cool to experience the full poop from bone stock to ported, bored, valved, cammed, intaked and exhausted! still, my path is a little cluttered, my exhaust has to come first, and since i have the (broken)slip-on i must graduate to full race type. next will be the heads then cams, at that point i'm hoping to be over 100hp which seems to be the magic number for buell owners(though whatever my bike dynos at now is pretty damb fast!)thanks again for the input aaron. | ||
| Phillyblast |
Tripp, Should be at least 30% based on the 63 hp # above.  Surfing badweb at work just got a little more expensive. Talked to Justin today, going with the 1250 kit (thanks for reminding me/him about the black/highlighted fins Aaron) for the S2. You're right Tripp - I can afford to do it right now, so I oughta do it right. I thought about it, and if I get in there and find out I need to bore and hone the cylinders, etc. I'd kick myself. I'm still a little worried about doing it myself - one of the reasons I procrastinated so long, besides finances, was fear of effing up the S2. Another one of the reasons I wanted to do a Blast first - well that and the 650 m-pf record that those beemer guys made reaaall hard this year.  But I have solid backup, a service manual, a shop full of tools, and plenty of time over the winter. Aaron, just curious - did you get your S2 on the dyno yet? Mostly wondering about the curve, not so much peak #s. Thanks again for everything, btw - not just the parts - see ya in Wendover next year? I'm guessing if I can get the bike out there it oughta make the 130 club | ||
| Firemanjim |
David,you will have no problem getting into 130 club with that set-up.Mine got in putting out an ill-tuned 70.5 hp.(Thought it was running ok until after the dyno work,left with 88 hp.) Hope you can make it out to Bonneville again,we had a blast. | ||
| Tripp |
as in the 130mph club? a stock 1203cc buell should do 130 no? |
