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Sbaugz
Posted on Friday, May 10, 2019 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I will try and be brief. My 1999 S3 that I picked up two years ago is having problems. I have battled some problems since I got the bike- mainly with some stumbling at around 3500 RPMs. Here is what I have done:
- TPS reset like a million times
- New intake gaskets
- New O2 sensor
- new exhaust gaskets
- new plugs (NGK)
- New air filter
- ECM re-flashed with stock X1 map using Buelltooth

After doing all that, I finally got the bike to run really well. This past week I spent time getting the gear-train to shift better. I changed the tranmission fluid, re-adjusted the cables, etc.

Went to take bike out for a test ride today. Seemed to start out OK. About 10 miles into my ride, the bike started to feel like it didn't have power. It was surging and was slow to accelerate. I turned around to get home. By the time I got home, the bike had literally no power at all. It would bog down, misfire, etc. It only seemed to have power at around 5000 RPMs. Also, when I tried to accelerate, the bike would "knock". I am not sure "knock" is the correct word, but it literally acted exactly like my old 1966 Dodge Polara that would occasionally make a knocking noise if we didn't use the old leaded gasoline in it. The bike is basically un-driveable now. The weird thing- it will idle fine. Doesn't seem to have any idling issues. It just totally lacks any power and it misfires when you try and drive it.

Also- the engine light never went on. No codes, etc.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks.

(Message edited by sbaugz on May 10, 2019)
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651lance
Posted on Friday, May 10, 2019 - 10:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What is your fuel pressure at idle and at 5k going down the road? Also check you voltage and make sure your charging.
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Sbaugz
Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 07:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How do I check the fuel pressure?
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Mighty_mouse
Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 08:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Get a gauge for fuel injected from any auto parts store. Most come with 2 size fittings. Screw the fitting onto the valve under the tank ( X1's are on the left side, sure the S3's are the same) looks about the same as a tire valve. You'll get some gas spray when connecting so keep a rag near by. Keep track of your psi at idle and 5k. Like Lance stated also check the voltage, the ecm's need that voltage to run.
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Sbaugz
Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 08:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

ok, thanks!
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Sbaugz
Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 10:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

One other thing I might report. It seems like the AFR always ends up at around 22% using my ecmdroid. Ill switch it to 100 and it always seems to end up back at 18-25%

Does this mean anything.
My plan for this next week is to rent a fuel pump test kit and check the fuel pump.
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Harleyelf
Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 11:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This sound so much like what happened to my '99 S3 when it was about 20,000 miles old. I got so frustrated I removed the fuel injection. While changing over, I found that my cam position sensor was black on the electronics side and smelled burnt. The Sportster CPS and coil have never failed for a moment. You might just have a bad CPS.
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Steveford
Posted on Sunday, May 12, 2019 - 04:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The AFV should not change very much.
When the bike is hot what is the O2 sensor voltage doing? It should be jumping around all over the place.
Is yours just sitting at one setting?

Also, what's the IAT reading? Close to what the air temperature really is?
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Akbuell
Posted on Sunday, May 12, 2019 - 08:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

All good things to check, especially the CPS. A good look and sniff exam is in order. After all, the calendar can be as big an enemy as abuse or neglect.

As to the Adaptive Fuel Value getting into the 20's (Yikes!) I had a similar situation with my X-1, though not nearly as bad. The bike would develop a slight miss, and EcmSpy would show an AFV of 85-88. Reset to 100, and all would be well. For a while; then the situation would repeat.

Thought about it, and wondered if I had a leaking rear fuel
injector, causing the O2 sensor to read a 'rich' mixture and therefore start leaning out the entire fuel map.

Remove the things you need to remove so you can see into the intake manifold. Turn the key on, and hold the throttle wide open. Then turn to stop/run switch to run for 2 seconds, then off for 2 seconds. Repeat 5 times. Turn the switches off, hold the throttle open, and look into the intake manifold with a strong light. If you see any evidence of raw fuel, replace the injector(s).

In my case, the rear injector was 'drooling', showing a wet stain around the injector base. Replaced that, and solved the problem.

And I suspect that a Very Lean mixture will cause knocking.

Hope this helps, Dave
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Sbaugz
Posted on Sunday, May 12, 2019 - 12:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

AHHHHHHHHH.

I am about ready to throw this f-in bike away.

So an update today. I did a TPS reset again (cause why not?). Did a test of the injectors using my ECMDROID. I also removed the cam position sensor cover and checked in there. No burning smell but the rubbery coating over the sensor is somewhat mushy and soft. I figure I will probably replace that.

I had the bike running after the TPS reset and it idles nicely. Turned the bike off. Went inside for a bit. Came back outside and turned the ignition on. That's weird - the fuel pump doesn't go on. Turn off ignition and back on again. Same thing. Hit the starter button- not a damn thing. Checked all my fuses- none are blown. What the hell? I am seriously getting really irritated with this bike.
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Akbuell
Posted on Sunday, May 12, 2019 - 12:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Not sure ECMDROID or ECMSpy will tell you if an injector is leaking. Of course, if the fuel pump is not working . . . .

When you turn the key on, do you have lights, horn, turn signals? If so, the acc relay is working, so swap that with the ign relay. They are the same. See if the problem goes away. Better said, see if the fuel pump cycles. Good chance that is the immediate problem. Won't really have an effect on the AFV situation.

Hope this helps, Dave
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Sbaugz
Posted on Sunday, May 12, 2019 - 01:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

No, ECMDROID will not tell if its leaking. It was able to tell me that each injector switches on and off.

disregard my fuel pump/ starter issue with it not working. I am a ! The bike is on the stand. I must have bumped it into first gear. That is why the starter and fuel pump wouldn't go on. Its all good now.

so, back to the main issue. I will rent a fuel pump tester this week and check that out. I will also remove and clean the injectors.

Probably will also swap out the CPS- the coating around the sensor looks gummy and sticky. Probably won't hurt to change it out.

(Message edited by sbaugz on May 12, 2019)
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Akbuell
Posted on Sunday, May 12, 2019 - 02:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

S'OK. Not like fouling a plug on a two stroke dirt bike, shift lever deep in mud, and can't get it started after changing plugs. Because, after 10 mins of trying, you find out that you left the plug wire off. . . DAMHIK

Anyway, were it me, I would check for injector leakage before cleaning. Be nice to know for sure if that was the problem.

Dave : )
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Gmaple
Posted on Sunday, May 12, 2019 - 07:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If all else fails could be the tube that connects fuel pump to pressure regulator.
I had similar problem with an xb and finally traced it back to that hose when the pump was pulled. The house had a split in it. It was frustrating for me as well but the xb has been solid ever since.
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Williamscottrobertson
Posted on Sunday, May 12, 2019 - 11:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Id replace the CPS first and see if the problem goes away. Mine was barely dribbling a little goop and it would hard start, esp when cold and it just didnt run good. New CPS fixed everything.

(Message edited by Williamscottrobertson on May 12, 2019)
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Mnscrounger
Posted on Monday, May 13, 2019 - 06:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Not mentioned yet, but should be, is that a loose ground will cause these bikes to act up.
My 2002 S3 has a habit of going through engine temp sensor thermistors every couple years. They are a common problem and I recall reading a quote here by Al Lighton, American Sportbike's Buell Guru.
"Unless you can prove otherwise, its almost always the temp sensor."
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Williamscottrobertson
Posted on Friday, May 24, 2019 - 10:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Did you figure it out Steve? Just curious.
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Sbaugz
Posted on Saturday, May 25, 2019 - 08:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Not yet. Bike is still apart in garage - awaiting a couple last shipments today.

Since it was apart, I did the following:
New o2 sensor
New TPS sensor
New engine temp sensor
New IAP sensor
New plug wires
New plugs
New CPS
New intake seals
Rebuilt injectors

Im basically throwing money at it now. The guy who rebuilt the injectors said one of them was 50% less flow than the other. He was able to clean them and get them close to spec (within 3% of each other )
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Firemanjim
Posted on Saturday, May 25, 2019 - 12:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Really only thing that really affects the AFR like that is the engine temp sensor, it tells the engine you are really cold or really hot and it throws a ton of fuel at it. Most other things skew AFR the other direction.
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Sbaugz
Posted on Saturday, May 25, 2019 - 06:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I am happy to report that the bike runs better than it has ever ran. It is super smooth. It idles nicely. The mid range stumble is gone. I am super happy.

I can't say for sure what the cause was. I literally replaced every sensor I could think of. See my post above for everything that I did.

I have my suspicion as to what the cause was, but I will probably never know. The CPS sensor didn't look right- the covering on it was melted and gummy. Also, the rear fuel injector was flowing at 50% less than the front, according to the guy who rebuilt them. One of those two things was likely the cause.

Thanks for the help everyone.

(Message edited by sbaugz on May 25, 2019)
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Akbuell
Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2019 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Excellent! Good to hear. Now you can just enjoy. : )
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Dave
Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - 07:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I like a happy ending! Pissa' you couldn't point to a single item to kick its ass.
DAve
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Sbaugz
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2019 - 06:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

cause who doesn't love a happy ending?
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