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Buellmanmike
Posted on Monday, May 06, 2019 - 08:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What exactly has to be changed on a fuel injected X1 in order to run a carburetor without flooding the entire engine out with gas constantly...??? Because that's what mine did with 2 different carbs on it. I would love to know ??? IF anyone can PLEASE TELL ME, it would be greatly appreciated ?! I NEED this bike riding NOW.
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Monday, May 06, 2019 - 09:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Is it causing you problems when it's running, or does this happen when you park? In general, a flooding carb is the result of the float getting stuck, or the float valve not being good. Regardless of what engine it's hooked up to, the float should be cutting off gas once the bowl fills up.

Did you remove the fuel pump when you switched? I wonder if you left the fuel pump hooked up if it could be forcing gas into the carb and causing enough pressure in the bowl to send the extra gas into the intake.
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Monday, May 06, 2019 - 09:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yeah no matter how good your float is, it's not going to overcome 45PSI of pressure.
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Buellmanmike
Posted on Monday, May 06, 2019 - 02:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I removed the pump and plugged the hole. Someone mentioned the vacuum solenoid. I didn't have that. My floats were good. Thankfully I spend all my money on this bike. I found my spare ecm, so I will try that after I get home. Its just getting really annoying. All my vehicles with ecm put me out of a ride for months and even years at a time b4 I can afford to fix it...Its driving me bonkers. I just hope whomever put ecms in our vehicles, suffers a painful death. They hurt hard working broke people everywhere with this garbage. Thanks for your input as always guys.
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89rs1200
Posted on Monday, May 06, 2019 - 02:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If I can shed some light on carburetor float valves as they stand today:

* Rubber on the float valve has changed to a harder, (synthetic?), compound. Therefore the manuals instructions to set the bowl height no longer works!
** Manual states to put the carb. at an angle, I recall about 30 degrees, and set the float height. The carb. will leak!
** I have had success for the last several years by setting the base of the carb. level and parallel with the work bench and setting the float to be level with that. the valve now presses a little harder to the seat and will seal reliably.

* No longer do I experience carb. leak into the intake? I wish:
** Alcohol in gas hardens the float valve needle rubber, so this valve will leak again in a few years!!
** Valve will leak sooner if the motor is stored with gas in the carburetor, with the petcock open, for an extended time. All I can figure is that as the volatiles evaporate in the float bowl the bad stuff stays and hardens the rubber.
** Moral of the story is to buy extra valves for replacement every 5 years or so.

* Side note:
** It is unfortunate our motors lean to the left and gas will not run onto the floor, but instead leaks into the intake and dilutes the oil. First indication of a problem is then a full oil tank puking oil all over the back half of the motor.
** AH! You say! But there is a overflow hose at the bottom of the carb. and that can not happen! Au contraire, chances are your 40mm Keihin carb. will not drain out that hose because the tiny pipe in the float bowl is clogged by gas by-products. D'oh!
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Buellmanmike
Posted on Monday, May 06, 2019 - 09:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Oh yea, the fuel we are getting these days, is pure garbage. Your carb float suggestions are much appreciated, and when I get back into that mindset again, I will remember your advice on the matter. Thankfully my spare ECM did the trick, and it fired right up. Didn't run great, but I will check the Buell tooth next time I get time to work on it. Unfortunately, I do have the push rod tube leak to sort out still too, but I just ordered the cometic o-rings, because the James ones are leaking (possibly my fault, still trying a different brand). I may still get some one piece push rod bases from somewhere, b4 I install them. Also I've got the XB rocker top to paint and install. I need 1 more. I have the Stenzel brace to install too. And now, all of the sudden, my right side fork seal decided to give up the ghost...JML. Being that I am single, with no kids, I spend all my $ on keeping the Buell (and the others) going. I have a new Uly front end, but I need the XB rotor, caliper, and fender yet. Brand new front wheel in the box as well ready to go. Thanks again for the input on this. It was giving me fits, when I had the carb. It was puking out of everywhere too btw. I got an M2 frame to build my carbed Buell outta my spare parts, so I will be revisiting the carbed Buell mission B4 too long...!!!
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Firemanjim
Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2019 - 01:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Begs the question, why did you go to a carb when injection works great--- and won't overflow gas!
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2019 - 07:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Agree it's a shame the bike leaning to the left will just let it all run into the cylinders. A year or two ago mine started overflowing. Since then I always try to shut off my gas about 30 seconds before I park, just to let some of the gas out of the carb before it sits.


Are the CV carbs supposed to have overflow hoses? I know mine has a hose on the bottom, but that one has a screw you need to loosen with a long screwdriver between the cylinders to open the passageway, and it's just there to manually drain the carb.
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2019 - 08:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

CV carbs do have an overflow but it would only work if the bike was upright.
The intake manifold is "downhill" from the bowl if it starts to leak.
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89rs1200
Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2019 - 10:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Upthemaiden,

Yes that is the one. Open the float bowl and there will be an overflow tube. Chances are very good that tube is non-funtional or clogged.
Yes, the overflow tube is after the drain screw, so an overflow will drain out the tube at the bottom of the carburetor. Well, if it is functional and not clogged.
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89rs1200
Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2019 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hello Firemanjim,

Why are all my Buells carbureted? I can answer for myself by stating:
* Fuel pump costs over $200.
* Fuel pumps can fail intermittently and be difficult to diagnose. What failed: the fuel pump, ECM, injectors, or Oxygen sensor?
* FI ECM cost over $100 used. Yeah, buy used electronics. That's a good idea. LOL
* ECM will likely fail in two ways:
** Overheat and intermittently fail.
** Go dead right now and strand one on the side of the road.
* Carburetors are analog, which means they generally fail slowly. Can feel it coming on.
* Carburetors are old and proven technology every mechanic understands and can troubleshoot.
* Nearly every motorcycle shop in the world, no matter what brand, has parts for a 40mm Keihen carburetor.
* Only issue I have had with my carburetor has been a leaky float valve. Guess what! I could still ride it and that failure did not strand me on the side of the road.
* Electronic ignition for a carbureted Buell can be purchase at any Harley Davidson dealership. Just buy the Sportster model.
* Have not had a failure of an electronic ignition for a carbureted Buell.
* FI Buells do not get better mileage. I get 58-62 MPG at 70 MPH. 63-65 MPG at 55 MPH.

(Message edited by 89rs1200 on May 07, 2019)
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2019 - 12:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How are you getting 50-60mph?? I get 30 something haha.

I agree, I prefer a carb on old bikes. I have no problem with FI, although it does limit my interest in tearing into a bike to trouble shoot. I know people say you can get the cable and hook your bike up to a computer to mess with stuff. I did that on my XB and didn't care for it at all. I'd much rather fix things with a wrench and a screwdriver, especially when they're already 20+ years old. It just goes with the simple stripped down nature of these bikes.
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89rs1200
Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2019 - 03:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hello Upthemaiden,

All my S3s get this mileage since my first in 1997.
The RS1200 gets about 50-55MPG like any other stock Sportster motor.
I would get better mileage with stock exhaust, but that would not be as much fun. ; )
All run Vance&Hines or SuperTrapp mufflers with K&N air filter in the stock air box. No other performance modifications other than getting the jetting correct for my altitude.
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2019 - 03:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My X1 always got low fifties when running non-ethanol.
I think I got it over 60 a couple of times cruising on back roads at a very moderate top gear speed.

The only times I got less than 50 before ethanol was in terrible traffic or lots of short trips.
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Williamscottrobertson
Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2019 - 10:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I go to 45/195 jets and a CVP kit in all my carbs, S2 and S1Ws. 45mpg regardless of how I drive them. The stock jets were quite a bit leaner and the needle/spring (drilled slides also) Iím sure was less aggressive than the CVP - probably would get 55-65mpg stock depending on driving style. Stock set up carbs are always close to lean popping and tend to cause them to be super cold natured but they pass emissions for the time. My Ural would glow the headers cherry red at night until I jetted it up and lost a few mpg.
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2019 - 08:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My bike had a V&H with a Forcewinder when I got it, currently has a stock exhaust and the same filter. I don't think I really noticed much of a change in mileage, although I did notice a bit of a drop in wheelie power. Thinking about it, I think my mileage is usually just above 40, not in the 30s, but I do live in a very hilly area and use the bike as a commuter, so it sees a bit of traffic and redlights. A lot of stop and go, and with the hills(and resulting twisty roads) I'm either always on the gas or on the brakes. I'm sure mileage is very different for someone who lives somewhere flat and straight who can just sit and cruise at 2500rpm.

The best fix I've found so far is my truck that gets 12mpg. That makes the bikes mileage seem great by comparison!
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89rs1200
Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2019 - 10:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

* From stock, the low speed jet is way too lean. 45 appears to work fine for all I have re-jetted.
* Yes hills and stop and go traffic lower fuel mileage. I did state highway mileage, which means steady speed for miles. Easiest way to get good mileage.
* I have always been impressed how Eric increased the power of these motors, not by lazy "just make it bigger with more aggressive cams.". He used design skills to make the motor, intake, and exhaust more efficient to gain more power. Another reason to love anything Erik puts his mind to build.
* I run a 195 main jet here at 4800 feet with an adjustable needle set for the middle or one up from middle. That needle adjustment is set for good running at a mid-throttle.
* 195 main jet is too lean for sea level. Found a 200 main jet works fine at sea level.
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2019 - 11:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I can't remember what my main jet is, but I don't spend much time using that one. When I had the V&H I had a 48 pilot and 3 washers under the stock needle and it ran very well. When I switched to the stock exhaust I went to the original 42, and dropped to 1 washer. I was getting a little coughing so I put a 2nd washer back in, and I have a 45 in the closet to put in someday when I have time.
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Buellmanmike
Posted on Friday, May 10, 2019 - 05:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Firemanjim, because @ the time it wasn't running great, at all it was running like shit. And after I replaced the bad injector with a brand new one from u know who (HD), and it fixed it for 2 weeks, I was at my wits end, and broke. Someone gave me a Mikuni off of a sportster so I ran that for a while. The Buell was my only ride for a long time. It was paid off and I was broke. Once again for broke jokers, computers in our vehicles ****ed US. They're a major PITA, and when ur broke a carb is pretty simple.
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Buellmanmike
Posted on Friday, May 10, 2019 - 06:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

89rs1200,EXACTLY. Fuel injection is great only when it's working. When its not it sucks big-time. I try to avoid buying anything for my Buell from them, it's always a hassle unless I buy it from a dealership on eBay. In town here, I get games because they hate Buells. Despite having an ECM, this bike has been the best $ I ever spent. Without it, I would probably not have made it down here. Back when I was working slave labor and having my check pilfered every week by the MOB, I went and looked @ some new bikes. I was really digging, and looking hard @ the Yamaha FZ09. I got all the info on how much, then went home and started looking into it. It has drive by wire. **** that BS.i won't buy another new vehicle EVER. Nada. I built my first car, and the truck I drive now. It has an ECM yea it's reliable as hell, but it's been down for months because it has an ecm. They absolutely ruined our vehicles with that BS. IF you're loaded your good to go, IF your broke you're ****ed, it's as simple as that.
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89rs1200
Posted on Friday, May 10, 2019 - 06:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Buellmanmike,
I had the exact reaction you did when I looked at new motors. For around $20,000 I could buy the latest wiz-bang motor, and then be at the mercy of drive by wire, plastic sensors, and computers. No thank you!

Stopped for a rider on a dual purpose Yamaha a year ago. Basically the middle of Nevada, Coaldale to be exact. Truck stop was there 30 years ago, now nothing. 60 miles from the nearest town, which has services, but no motorcycle shop.
What had him down? The Mass Air Flow Sensor (MAP MAF). Seriously, on a dual-purpose motor?!?! He had been there 3 hours awaiting a tow truck from Bishop, CA. Nothing I could do but give him water.
Oh! I was on my S3 with a dead alternator, stator. I rode that day 440 miles from Las Vegas to home in Carson City, Nevada on battery. Try that with an ECM.
Once rode 150 miles with a dead battery. Can't make this up.

(Message edited by 89rs1200 on May 10, 2019)
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Monday, May 13, 2019 - 09:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I used to have a kickstart only YZ426 supermoto, the thing didn't even have a battery. It's nice knowing there's barely anything that can go wrong on a bike like that. I'll put up with FI if the bike is in good shape and isn't likely to have problems. You can buy a carbureted bike that's been parked out in someone's yard for 5 years and have a nice time rebuilding the thing in your garage. I wouldn't touch any used FI bike unless it's always been garage kept and always in great shape.

All the best bikes were built before 2005. If I had the money, I'd put up with the electronics to own a Superduke, but I'm not currently in a position to be buying $18k motorcycles anyway, so I can't really pick on their electronics anyway haha.

I'm ok with bikes going electric, and look forward to riding some, but I am starting to get worried every time you see another country sets a deadline when they're going to stop selling gasoline and all new cars they sell will be electric. Obviously at this rate the US will be the last one to the party, and will still go kicking and screaming, but I'm still young enough that I feel like in my lifetime we'll hit a point where you can't drive gasoline vehicles anymore, and you'll see me and my S1 doing loops around my yard because I've got no where else I can ride it.
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Buellmanmike
Posted on Monday, May 13, 2019 - 12:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OMG they are such a nightmare, computers. I just typed a long reply and my phone rang and I lost the whole thing. My friend calling me about what, a wiring harness on a 97 Z28...Yea the mice chewed wires so now it's been sitting and needs a new harness. I don't believe fuel is running out for one second. Nope it's the Earth cola, constantly being replenished. How much do ya think they could charge US IF everyone knew this...??? As long as people believe these fuels are running out, they get to bend US over. I don't believe it and there isn't one shred of evidence to prove that hasn't been funded by people who benefit from this misconception. I will not buy another ecm vehicle. My Raptor has carbs, but also has an ecm. A Big Guns ecm, and IF the battery is low that bike won't run for shit. It's ridiculous. They only wanted to hurt us transportation wise. And they did a heck of a job of it. When I met Erik in York, the one thing I asked him. Because I knew it would be an issue...was IF I built a stump pulling stroked and poked version of that engine, once it had gotten tired and worn out, was IF there would be a way to tune that FI. He told me yes there would be something available. Now when my last ECM takes a shit, who's gonna make more...??? I can guarantee my X1 will ultimately get a carb. And the M2 I'm gonna build will for sure no question about that...I cannot express in words how much I loathe politicians and liberals in general for this. The EPA is nothing more than a globalist MOB. Crooks, and criminals. A faction of the UN dirtbags.
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Monday, May 13, 2019 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm not even gonna touch that one...
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Monday, May 13, 2019 - 03:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

.

jh
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Buellmanmike
Posted on Monday, May 13, 2019 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yea, yea, yea...!
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - 08:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This forum is the one last good place left on the internet. Sent the politics over to the Quick Board and save this one for motorcycles.
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Buellmanmike
Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - 08:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yea they chastised me on car forums 20 years ago too. They had a no politics rule, but couldn't refrain from trashing conservatives, so I couldn't help myself. 5x I got jailed 30 days from Fascistbook. I'm on my alternate page this time. OK,so how about running them on vapors , with no raw fuel to the carb...? Anyone tried that yet? I set up a lawn mower in 20 minutes. And I'm about to run a small block 350 on it, in my mudtruck, once I get time to get back on that...!

(Message edited by Buellmanmike on May 15, 2019)
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