| Author | Message | ||
     X1carbon |
It will turnover, but not fire. It'll run a few seconds when I spray carb cleaner in the breather. Fuel pump has plenty of flow and pressure. Only 6300 miles on the odometer. I drained fuel tank and added fresh gas. I disconnected the fuel line from the upstream end of fuel filter and a lot of gas drained from the filter connection. All fuses are good. Any ideas? | ||
| Dave |
Take a peek in the throttle body yet? The '99s had a batch of throttle bodies where the shaft breaks. DAve (Message edited by DAve on November 30, 2018) | ||
| X1carbon |
No haven't looked at the throttle body. But I can hear a difference while cranking when I twist the throttle. | ||
| Ebutch |
It's not broken butterfly post it would start and ideal but when given throttle it would bog down.It happened to mine.Can be idle set too low.On throttle-body is idle adjuster turn clock-wise a couple turns.  | ||
| Hootowl |
Do not give it any throttle when starting. Did it get worse over time, or fail suddenly? | ||
| Hootowl |
To start an X1, make a fist, extend your pointer finger and push the starter button. No throttle. At all. | ||
| X1carbon |
I didn't give it throttle to start. I only did it to see if it changed the way it sounded while spinning the engine, the sound was different so I knew the butterfly was opening and closing. It ran fine a couple of weeks ago. Tried to start it and all it does is spin the engine. Battery is good. Engine turns over fine. It does not even try to fire. It's like it's not getting gas. | ||
| X1carbon |
I haven't changed the idle. | ||
| Hootowl |
If the fuel pump is working, and it’s not getting fuel, you either have plugged injectors, or a bad ecm. Since it runs on carb cleaner, your coil and plugs are good. Pop an injector and see whether it’s spraying? | ||
| X1carbon |
Inspection of the injectors is next. The gas smelled bad. I drained the tank and put in fresh gas. But the injectors might have already been clogged. | ||
| Harleyelf |
If you can smell gas at the throttle body, check for spark. If you have no spark, take the timing cover plate off and smell for burnt electronics. The cam position sensor can fail and not throw a code. The fuel pump has a screen which can crumble with age into injector-clogging powder. Did you look inside the tank while it was empty? (Message edited by harleyelf on December 01, 2018) | ||
| Hootowl |
It must have spark, he says it runs on carb cleaner. | ||
| X1carbon |
Since it runs when I squirt carb cleaner directly in the breather but won't even fire at all on its own, seems it would have to be something wrong with the fuel supply system. Right? BTW, the red light operates as it should - no indication of fault codes. | ||
| Akbuell |
I have an X-1 that is very reluctant to start if it hasn't been run for 2 weeks or so. Through trial and error, I found that if I hook up a battery charger ( a real one, not a trickle charger) it fires right up. And that is with a good battery showing 12.5+V and good connections. My guess is that maybe the starter contacts are not all that they should be, causing excess current drain. If the bike has been started in the last couple of days, it fires right up. Curiouser and Curiouser. Might be worth trying. Hope this helps, Dave (Message edited by Akbuell on December 03, 2018) | ||
| X1carbon |
That was a good idea and it makes sense. Starter drawing too much power causing the injectors to not get enough power to function. I just connected a 4 amp charger and tried to start it. No luck. Still think sitting up the last couple of weeks with bad gas gummed up the dang injectors. When I replaced the fuel pump last winter it did the same thing. Tried to start it for several minutes. Gave up and after a few hours pushed it out of driveway and into my garage. Thought, give it one more try and it started right up. Maybe installing the new pump got air in the system and it had to be displaced with fuel. I wonder now if this was the beginning of something starting to go bad. | ||
| Akbuell |
Well, Drat! OK, one final wild guess - if you don't know how old the relays are, might do to replace them all with new and try again. At worst, it would be regular preventive action. Also removes a variable. If that doesn't work, given the fuel history, start at the fuel line and check all, from the tank to the filter to the fuel rail. | ||
| Dave |
... Good point about the battery - no mention of battery drain or slow crank. It can't hurt keeping the battery topped off. If you've been juicing the throttle to start, pull plugs and let those cylinders dry out. In this case you don't want wet jugs. It's a '99. When was the last time intake manifold seals were accomplished? Keep that in mind before going down the path of everything non KISS. Spark plugs & wires. Replace the plugs and verify you have happy spark on both. Yeah yeah starter fluid only gets you so far. Did I mention to check your shaft? Throttle body butterfly shaft. Pull that air cleaner because you'll need to anyhow if it needs manifold seals. Mine cracked returning from the BRAG meet in AZ. It made the bike run like crap. (I reckon a TPS was waaaaay off among other things) They can run with a cracked shaft. I limped it another 40 miles to a dealership in Tyler TX. My '06 Ulysses cracked the shaft as well and I limped it home. Check your shaft. DAve (Message edited by DAve on December 03, 2018) | ||
| Williamscottrobertson |
Gotta be fuel. Gummed up screen on the fuel pump in the tank? Gummed up lines to the injector. Finally gummed up injectors. Pull the lines to the injectors, put them in a coke bottle and turn the switch on, see if a steady strong stream comes out. Maybe pull the injectors and soak in cleaner or have a local shop clean them or replace them all together (I think there’s a Ford that’s compatible. My s3 DDFI wouldn’t start sometimes, or hard start. Turned out to be a bad cam sensor. Pulled the timing cover and it was oozing goop. Replaced it and it fired up every time. Seems that wouldn’t be the case if it runs on start fluid then dies. I’d lean toward fuel. | ||
| Harleyelf |
When my cam position sensor failed, it would start but then immediately die. Later on, it would fire at odd times, backfire, and cut out. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
With the bike having that low of a milage, it's pretty much guaranteed to have boogers in the injectors. They are clean-able. Youtube has some neat videos of homebrew arrangements. One of the best had a guy that found a syringe tube for baby medicine that fit over the O-ring of the injector and pressurized it with gum-out. he then applied 12V to the coil to open the valve and allow the junk to come out the back. | ||
| X1carbon |
Yep. I'll pull the injectors this weekend and see if they spray and report back. Plugs are dry as a bone. | ||
| X1carbon |
Update: I still haven't pulled the injectors yet. Hope to do it soon. | ||
| X1carbon |
Pulled the injectors today. The bottoms of the injectors looked clean. Would have thought there would have been some discoloration. Connected them to a 9 volt battery. All I heard was a real faint click. Should I feel the injector piston snap back and forth? Also, I checked voltage going to each injector and it was less than one volt. Now I'm thinking the ECM is the guilty part. | ||
| X1carbon |
Anyone? | ||
| Steveford |
Is it throwing any codes? You're at the point where you need a shop manual. You should have 12V at post 87 on the ignition relay, the juice goes from there to the injectors. If you have 12V at post 87 measure resistance between terminal 87 of the ignition relay and the terminals at the injector connector. Resistance should be less than .5 Ohms. If it's not, looks for a corroded connector or broken/frayed wire. Resistance across the injector terminals should be 12.25 Ohms. If not, the injector is beat. All of this is assuming you have a good battery and fuel pressure. The things might simply be clogged if they're not spraying anything. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
If they're full of cheese, you won't see it from the outside. See these videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aT4S1lIBAY And https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUUgR94drxg | ||
| X1carbon |
The resistance on both injectors measured from both tabs on each injector is 1 ohms. I set the ohm meter on 200 ohm scale. It reads the same as just touching the probes together. I have a 1999 Buell Lightning X1 service manual. The red engine light comes on for 3 or 4 seconds solid and then turns off, no blinks. I'll check 87 next. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Being clogged with cheese inside will not change the resistance of the coils. | ||
| Steveford |
Seems unusual to have both injectors be so dead but who knows. Satan may have gotten inside of your DDFI, it's been known to happen. Maybe stick a new battery in the voltmeter just to be sure? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
He was trying to use a 9V battery to click them. You need a good 12V power source. Those are some stout coils in there to act against the equally stout springs. I wish we lived closer so I could help out more than just posting crap to a BBS. |
