| Author | Message | ||
     Buellmanmike |
I'm looking for a little advice here, IF anyone has any ideas? I would much appreciate hearing which way I should go with this, so thanks in advance. Ok so Jan. 2018, I got rearended on my X1, stopping for a school bus...! Anyway the car was wedged between the tailsection, so the bike never hit the ground and was not totalled. I am pretty effed up but hoping to ride again ASAP. Destroyed my orange XB wheel I had just upgraded to. I have it all back together now. A couple of minor issues I have to deal with yet, but the one which is most troubling is the rear isolators. From the impact the frame was forced up, and out of the isolators, which cracked the front head mount. Once I got it home I hoisted it up and involved the side plate, like I was changing my belt, lowered the bike and set the isolators back in place. Seemed ok, but now it's back together, after cranking a few times on some old nasty gas and not starting yet, I checked things over. When I noticed on the belts side I have an 1/8" gap between the isolators and side plate. Does not seem the plate is bent, no paint chipped from the frame bending anywhere, and yet this 1/8 gap is there. Is there some adjustment, I am missing to take that out??? Because so far,it seems like I need to pull the swing arm bearings and shim the races out 1/16" per side somehow, to push the isolator away from the swing arm that 1/8", in order to have that bushing tighter into the frame. The rear tie bar is almost all the way in, and out seems like it will push it out more...!!! Again ANY help on this is much appreciated. | ||
| 89rs1200 |
1/8" is huge. Expect the frame is bent too much and is no longer safe. 1) The isolators are meant to snug between the frame and engine mount. 2) No adjustment possible. 3) In the past, some mechanics "spread" the frame too much. The fix was to install a single fender washer between the isolator and engine mount. 4) There should have been a roll pin on the frame which aligns the isolator to the frame. Is that pin still there? This bulletin shows the roll pin; http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/bulletins/Is olators96-00.pdf 5) Many people hate the idea of "Spreading" the frame to get the isolators on and off. I agree with them. Removing the exhaust, disconnect the 3 tie bars, raising the frame and letting the isolators fall out is safer; http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/476 23/765661.html 6) I hope the rear tie bar was not adjusted! These are set at the factory and not meant to be adjusted. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
There is a heim tiebar located under the rear plastic hugger fender. Give that a look. I had to remove that to replace my rear isolators. Perhaps yours was damaged in the impact? | ||
| S1owner |
Not good your frane stretched sideways expanded basically from the force of impact. I would get a new frame personally. You could squish it but it will never be dtrong again or probably ride straight. It will glex back out of shape. Look for a frame they are around. I have an M2 frane hanging at my house I would give to someone if they needed it. Its your choice butI would replace the frame!! | ||
| S1owner |
Fyi that rear tie bar has zero to do with frame spread it isthere strictly to align the motor/ rear wheel with the front wheel for trail! | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I was guessing that perhaps damage was hiding under there. Is it possible that the isolators were rotated a bit to make the roll pins pop out of the little pockets? | ||
| Buellmanmike |
I will get a better look, when I get back over there. And yes that rear tie bar was busted. I had to replace it. OMG people actually pry the frame, to do the isolators...WTF..? That's insane. This is why no dealer has ever done ANY of this stuff on my bike. It's been mine since it was 9 miles new. I would love to get another frame but this wreck put me out of the work force, so $ is tight. I may opt to squish it back, but I really wanted to ride. I'm probably going to have my machinist friend make me shims to go in behind the swing arm bearings to compensate. This bike is the only vehicle I ever bought brand new, I have kind of a sentimental attachment to it. And as much as I wanted a carbed S1 bike, this X1 and I have been through hell and back. I moved to Florida in 07, and without this bike I never would have made it, not to mention how many times it has saved my life. I have the revolution 50cc big bore kit on it. Another 08 rear wheel. I have an XB front end and wheel, but I need some of the brake stuff yet. Thanks again for the input guys. I will get a better look later. Right now I am look8ng over my spare swing arm and my old mounts. When I was working, I spent my check every week on my vehicles. The Buell got a lot of spare stuff, to keep it going. I would take ur M2 frame but I am slap broke at the moment, what state are you in..? | ||
| Buellmanmike |
Also I just recently upgraded to the new style isolators, so they were actually pretty new. I hoisted it up and took the plate off, like ur supposed to. Nobody works on my bike but ME, I have serious trust issues about that stuff. | ||
| 89rs1200 |
Yes S1owner, the tie bar may have had nothing to do with the spread, at least I hoped. Mentioned it because the owner mentioned how it was currently set/adjusted. If it had been tightened and somehow was put back on, that could have shifted the motor to the left in the frame. which would have explained at least some of the spread. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
When most people refer to spreading the frame, the process they're actually describing just compresses the isolator on the left side of the frame, letting the gap increase on the right side so the isolator can be pulled out. While that's out you can easily pull the left one out. You're not actually stretching the frame. Not something you need to worry about on your X1 though since you have the removable plate which makes it easy to swap the isolator and belt. If the frame is already bent, maybe it would be possible to have the rear end pressed back in to the proper width and have a metal bar welded across to keep it at the proper width and stiffen it up. I understand it's not the ideal situation, but if replacing the frame isn't an option, and the frame already has damage, it couldn't hurt. My S1 has the battery tray welded between the two sides, so it would be easy to tell if the frame had spread, but I'm guessing maybe the X1 frame could be different. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
I took a look at some pictures of X1 frames. It looks like there is already a bar welded across the back of the frame, so I'm guessing it's more likely that the bottom tabs got bent outwards, and wasn't the whole rear of the frame spacing out. If we're only talking about 1/8th inch, I'd just bend that sucker back into shape and keep riding. That's what steel is good for. Try laying the removable plate on something flat. Maybe you'll get lucky and that's the part that could be bent, you could just replace it.  | ||
| 89rs1200 |
Learned something today. Appears the 1996 - 1998 X1W White Lightning, (and X1 lightning?), did not have removable side plates, and the later model X1's did. Buellmanmikes' X1 should have the side plates. Does that change this conversation? As an S3 rider don't I feel left out! Real pain to replace a belt on a Buell without removable side plates! (Message edited by 89rs1200 on March 26, 2019) | ||
| S1owner |
X1 was not made then thats why it had no removable side plate. Not wanting to side track the thread but it takes me alot longer to change belts / isos on the x1 frame then the S1 or M2 ! Never used a spreading method simple lube and leverage and I could do it in sn hour or less on the X1 its 4 hours minimum it just fights everything! | ||
| Hootowl |
My experience is the opposite. Belt change on my X1 is 30 minutes tops. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Yeah. Last X1 belt I did was on the side of the road and it took less than 40 minutes. We won't talk about the FIRST X1 belt I replaced in my own garage. Took 3 hours. That was the same day my profile pic was taken  I have since purchased a ramp and maple trees are not required to get it off of a truck. | ||
| Buellmanmike |
The rear tie bar was broken on the one end. And even though I bought a Buell parts box worth of bolts and stuff, the tie bar that was included was actually busted as well on the same side, so I had to replace it with a standard 5/16" female hiem end joint from Racecar engineering here locally. I could have it mis-adjusted too far in because the isn't exactly the same as the original, rubber inserted hiems which came on my X1. The frame can't be spread out much, but that 1/8" is a bit much for me, it's been...Dam 2 decades now, I have had it, rode it and maintained it. That 1/8 wasn't there. Once I got cut loose from the ER, a buddy took me with a trailer to get it.I unsprung it by removing the plate. It was popped forward I scrutinized the thing to find ALL of the damage, and was quite impressed with how it held up considering. It seemed anyway that once I got the plate removed and got it sat down over the mounts properly again that everything was good. I was pretty stoked because it looked good. My buddy actually saw the cracked front head mount first. I saw the broken rear tie bar. I was studying my spare parts today in my head when I hit me as I had pulled into my destination this morning. I tryin to shim it too far back.... | ||
| Buellmanmike |
Yes two decent enough sized tubes, are in fact welded in, which make up the battery box, as can be seen in the X1 frame pic. I didn't have a proper straight edge, but a beat up framing square. I could barely get an .018 " feeler guage under it, (side plate), in between where u can actually get a straight edge across it, while on the bike, that is. To determine IF my side plate rather than my frame is what has moved 1/8"...? Not enough in my estimation to cause this 1/8". IF I knew how to post a pic, I would. I got a good pic of the gap tonight. I'm going to find some shims, to shim the round stepped blocks in the mounting blocks which the swing arm bearings sit on. With the swing arm bearings adjusted properly, it should not matter IF these spacers are sitting out roughly a 1/16" per side, from the mounting block, thus pushing the isolators into the frame just a bit more, and then the pinch bolts tightened on either side, should take up my gap...But remember guys, I am going to mock this up on a spare swing arm, and mount block with my old isolators. I had to look at the parts for a day, and process how they work. This seems the best method...Once I find who has the shims, I will check it out. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
As much as replacing a bent frame is the right way to fix it, I can say I'd be doing the same exact thing you are. I'd probably go grab some large fender washers from Lowes and jam them behind the isolators. Frame might not be *as* strong or straight, but for what I do with this bike, you'd never notice. Once you get it back together find a straight road, take your hands off the bars and see if the bike still rides straight. As long as it doesn't shoot you off the side of the road, I wouldn't be too worried about it. | ||
| S1owner |
This is my worry on fixing this. Literally the rear end is held in place by compressive force applied side to side through the Iso. If you do not have the correct side compressive force applied evenly you risk the rear end slamming up under stress. To compound this the shock is under which does not spply down force from the top. There are many things to calculate to figure the correct side compressive force to overcome the opposite veryical forces. I would not do it with out repairing the frame period | ||
| Buellmanmike |
Again I appreciate everyone's input a bunch. As I said, we've been thru quite a bunch, and as a, semi retired..lmao.., welder fabricator, metal guy, it is wiser to shim for the changes than attempt a squish, provided there is no cracks in the frame..?..and I have seen none, there will be no washers from Loews...Lol..!! I found my good 6" scale. Unfortunately sometimes my things get done last, so I didn't get to stop and measure the gap with my a good scale today. I did get to see my neighbor, who has a machine shop. We'll make 2 spacers very soon, to split the difference and I'll go from there. Mock it up on my spare parts get a feel 4 how they'll work, b4 I hoist the bike up and begin to pull the side plate...again...!!! I was in Battle2twin with Central NJ BRAG, when we rode from York to Lancaster with IDK couple hundred screaming bikes. A lot of Buell, but Harley, and other bikes, with Eric, Reg, Biker Billy...I rode from NJ, with some great folks, what a blast. Probably put 5-600 miles that week alone. I looked a might disheveled...lmao, riding that broad the whole way. Crazy good times still...Pa roads were AWESOME on my X1...We have some great stuff her in Fl. Too, and I have to get back in the saddle again...!!! | ||
| Buellmanmike |
Obviously once the plate is off, I do have access to a press, and IF it's bent, I will put it back to straight again. Also I hope to gain more access, so I might inspect my frame better, with some of that off. IF money were no object, I would have had another X1 (or S1) frame delivered to my door immediately. I wanted an S1W really bad, but October 98, was too late...All of the Molten Orange/Nuke Blue S1W,'s were gone, and the new F.I. bikes were hitting the dealers, even IF they could find me a leftover 98, they weren't going to try too hard, I don't believe. All the pissing and moaning from the ladies in the press about the seat...Well I'm a buck 40 the S1 seat was perfect...The press could **** up a wet dream. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
"Crazy good times still...Pa roads were AWESOME on my X1...We have some great stuff her in Fl." I live in PA, my wife always talks about moving to florida, trying to tempt me with "You could ride all year long!". Every time I'm down there though I get bored just looking at those roads. I'm sure there's some nice ones tucked away, but I feel like everything is wide, straight, and flat. We spend our time down there around Ft. Lauderdale/Taramac, for reference. | ||
| Buellmanmike |
Yea it's pretty flat here, I'll give you that. The Pa roads are a little bit nicer in that respect, they are more mountainous, and scenic. But I am in Central Fl., we have a lot of country roads that seemingly go on forever and yes you can just about ride all year long. I got hit in January, but it was 32° that morning too. Lauderdale is like a tourist area, my family comes and goes to Disney/Orlando area too. Not my thing, I live in redneck country...North Lakeland. In fact IF anyone has an S1 they want to trade for a nice big mud truck, hit me up...lol!!! | ||
| S1owner |
For 300-500 you can get a frame on ebay! Ask around probably someone on here has one you can get cheaper. Really whats your life or someone elses worth?! | ||
| Buellmanmike |
OK, so here it is, no shims, just a wrench...lol !! Hey I didn't build it, I just rode it, and maintained it for probably 100k miles...! Upon closer inspection, I could see some things a little better tonight. In my defense my Buell is crammed in a dark corner with barely any light. With a little adjustment of that rear cobbled together tie bar, the gap is all gone. I knew my frame was not bent. I am jonesin' to ride again, so I am in a hurry....2 | ||
| S1owner |
Good to hear!! Stay safe And keep iher upright! | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
So it just popped in there? What was it hung up on? | ||
| Upthemaiden |
The outside edge of the isolator has that raised lip, that normally sits inside the round hole of the frame. I'm guessing maybe the isolator wasn't perfectly centered and the side plate was pressing up against that raised lip instead of sitting around it? Either way, glad it was an easy fix! | ||
| Buellmanmike |
It was centered in the frame plate, but best I can figure is, my tie bar sitting in the parts bin, which I kept it all in, had been bouncing around long enough in my truck, somehow it became adjusted way too far in. I never fooled with it, so I figured that's where it was, it didn't seem to be an issue till I cranked on it a bit, almost started, and I stopped and looked it over a minute, thats when I saw the huge gap. I'm going over to my buddies shop usually after working all day, so I'm hungry and wore out. Same today, I put a little time in, fixing my rear cylinder exhaust push rod tube's lower o-ring, and changing my crushed oil filter...! I had both exhaust tubes leaking. Fixed the front cylinder yesterday. Down to installing my new fuel line, adding oil, and making sure my tubes are good. I should be good to go. I have to order a new header wrap because the old *h*t is shot, but it'll have to do for now...All goes well I will be on it...I will have to bend my tag back up, since it's still jammed under the seat and my $300. A.S.B. under seat CF piece is shattered.... | ||
| Buellmanmike |
It felt very good, first time down the road tonight, since I got hit (over a year now). I could let go of the bars and it still goes straight as an arrow, perfectly balanced. Handling on point. Feels a lot stronger too, but I didn't even take it over 4000 rpm, just up the road to, run it through the gears, check it out. I thought I fixed my oil leaks...lol, but it doesn't help when u overfill the oil tank...smh! I have some work to do still, but it felt GREAT to take it down the road again. |
