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Buell Forum » Old School Buell » S2 Thunderbolt » Difference between S2's made for CA v the rest of the US « Previous Next »

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Thestig
Posted on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 02:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Title says it all.

What is the difference between S2's made for Cal as apposed to the rest of the US. I have 4MZRT56H4S3000007 and would like to know the difference. I recall reading some place that 26 were made for the CA market (I could be wrong) tho I don't recall why. Is this bike #7 of the 1399 or #7 of the 26 CA bikes?

Any info would be great. Just for the fun of knowing. Thanks in advance.
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Tigermann
Posted on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 04:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Robert,

The "56" after the T in your VIN means it is a CA bike (non-CA bikes had an "11").

I believe there were 86 CA bikes in 1995 and 28 in 1996 (plus 36 S2Ts in 1996) - I've seen the build sheet for CA bike # 53 and it said 53 of 86

As far as differences, I believe its just the carburetor - CA bikes had the Quicksilver vs the 49 state bikes with the Kehins
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Ebutch
Posted on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 04:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

And a charcoal gas vent filter 4 those dangerous emissions.
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Thestig
Posted on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 04:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Great posts guys.

How do I find out where I fit in the overall production run?
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Lynrd
Posted on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 05:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think yours is #7 of the run.
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Thestig
Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2018 - 09:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Lynrd.

You guys got me really wanting to know now LOL
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Court
Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2018 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Carb was it.

If we hadn't lost a piece of paperwork . . it wouldn't have taken so long and S2's would have been sold in CA from the beginning.

Such is life.
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Lynrd
Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2018 - 02:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

BTW...the QuikSilver was a steaming piece of crap.

Red Edmonston managed to "design" the same basic slide carburetor three times, then sell the design and "design" the same thing again. Edelbrock licensed the QuikSilver but it was not any different from the older Lectron (Can't recall who licensed that one) ...which was only different from the "Lake Injectors" in that it actually had a float bowl (Lakes I believe were licensed to AEE or some other fine aftermarket distributor)..

But it was the _only_ aftermarket carb that passed CARB standards...I have no idea why Buell just didn't use the California "Tamper-proof" CV Keihin carb that the California HDs used.

Smart owners would throw the QuikSilver over the lemon tree and buy a Mikuni...
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Thestig
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2018 - 10:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This is my carb. Is it the OEM or has it been changed? I do not know HD at all.



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Lynrd
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2018 - 12:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That is a Keihin CV carb, not the QuikSilver. They are good carbs when set up. I would keep it unless you just feel the need to upgrade. If so, Mikunis are cool...
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Thestig
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2018 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ok, so this is not the stock carb. Got yeah. I am happy with it.

Thanks yet again
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Ratbuell
Posted on Friday, July 06, 2018 - 09:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It is "a" stock carb, just for a 49 state bike, not a CA bike. Jet it with a 45/190 set, 2.5 turns out on the mix screw, and she'll run like a champ.
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Thestig
Posted on Friday, July 06, 2018 - 09:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thank you Ratbuell. great info.
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Screamer
Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The California quicksilver carbs are distinctly different than the 49-state Keihin carbs. I collect (along with too many other things) Harley/Buell carbs and velocity stacks, so I have a couple of Quicksilvers.


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Thestig
Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2018 - 05:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

WOW, very cool Screamer!

Do you know why they had to use this carb? I am guessing it was an EPA issue with CA. Would be neat to find one for my bike. Even if I never put it on.
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Lynrd
Posted on Friday, July 13, 2018 - 09:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

California has stricter emissions laws than the 49 states, and is a big enough market that they can force their stricter rules on manufacturers.

Quicksilver at the time had the only “high performance” carb that was available with a CARB (California Air Resources Board) certification. The California CV carbs used on the HDs were “Tamper Proof”. - a little cap prevents adjusting the fuel air mix, which is lean as hell.

Court can fill in what happened next, but I assume that the California CV was not suitable for the free breathing exhaust, but the Quiksilver could be tuned in to work. It was very easy to slip the anti tamper caps off of those Quiksilvers, anyway.

Quiksilver was eventually licensed to Edelbrock (QuikSilver II) who was attempting a big push into the HD aftermarket. The shop where I worked at the time was an Edelbrock distributor and built their two of their promotional bikes, which ran the Quiksilver II carb.and Edelbrock heads of course. They were not the fastest, nor the quickest bikes we built there that year by a long yard.

From the Quiksilver side, the CARB certification seemed mostly a marketing ploy....Neither Mikuni, S&S or even Rivera (Who distributed HD kits for SU and DelLorto carbs) ever bothered .

I am in a position to know that the CARB version didn’t sell well at all retail. No one cared, except, apparently, Erik Buell.

(Message edited by Lynrd on July 13, 2018)
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Thestig
Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2018 - 09:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

WOW, Great post Lynrd. Thanks very much for the info. I learned a lot.
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