| Author | Message | ||
     Buellrobot |
Last winter I upgraded my oil drive gear on my 02 X1 and also did the XB rocker covers and PCV upgrade. I always had stuff come off breathers, but since the upgrade it seems to be progressively getting worse since the XB rockers. Also, it used to be oil/gas mix, but now seems almost like pure gasoline. A short 30 minute ride will leave a bunch of gassy fluid, misted out the catch can vent, all over my leg/side of bike. The bike generally seems to run OK aside from this. I'm planning to do a compression test to see if anything is abnormal, but I'm wondering if anyone has any other ideas or suggestions? | ||
| Ratbuell |
Shouldn't be any fuel in the crankcase (what the PCV's vent). It should be ALL oil. You have an issue somewhere. | ||
| Akbuell |
That's a weird one, Alice . . . . Easy stuff first. Check your plugs to see if they are black/gooky ( a technical term) or more toward tan. Ride for 30 or so mins and do a complete oil change. Collective evaporative stuff could be 'boiling off', leading to excess vapor. It is the 'seems to run OK' that I don't understand. The only way I know of for fuel to get into to crankcase is through the intake. Not uncommon with a leaking petcock on a carbed engine, but not the case here. Wouldn't hurt to pull the tank and look at the fuel lines and fuel rail, just because. And if the plugs show a rich mixture, then look for leaking fuel injectors, though that usually results in running issues. Please let us know what you find/how it goes. Hope this helps, Dave | ||
| Buellrobot |
Thanks guys. I pulled the plugs and they look dry and kind of a dusty gray/brown. Whatever it is (fuel or oil) it definitely seems to be coming from the breather and accumulating in the catch can. It's quite liquidy and seems to smell more like fuel than oil, but maybe I'm being daft. I'll pull the tank off and check out the fuel rail and injectors. Is there anything in particular I should look for w/ the injectors? | ||
| Ratbuell |
"Short ride" is a great way to build up moisture in the oil and thus increase fluid levels and breather output. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
One sneaky failure mode for an injector that happened to my Dodge was it leaks a bit. Turn it off and the rail is still under pressure. A leaker would drip drip drip until the pressure was down. If you turn on the ignition and allow it to pressurize without starting it, fuel should not come out of anything. If one drips, that is your culprit. You can sometimes save them by reverse flowing them. There are numerous videos on youtube for doing that. | ||
| Buellbum |
an old-school test for gas in oil: put some on a stick and see if you can get it to light with a match. | ||
| Buellrobot |
Excellent, really appreciate all the ideas and tips! I'll try to take a closer look next weekend and report back. | ||
| Akbuell |
The plug check tells me that you do not have a fuel issue. As to what to examine re the fuel system- just look for signs of a leak. And there is a quick check in the service manual to check for a leaking lifter. The results of the plug check shows a (reasonably) good fuel/air mixture. Try the oil and filter change, and see if you get different results. And while at it, might do to tilt the bike a bit to the right and pull the clutch cover and look at the trans fluid. If the engine oil has become contaminated due to short runs, the trans fluid may be also. Hope this helps, Dave | ||
| Buellrobot |
@AK and @Rat, your diagnosis seem to be spot on. Pretty sure I was getting oil blow-by mixed with condensate from not running long/hot enough on some very cold days here in Boston. The color/texture/smell really had me thinking it was fuel. @Buellbum, your suggestion to see if the fluid was flammable was helpful. I swear it smelled like gasoline, but I was 100% wrong. On a lark, before I checked the fluid for flammability, I did a warm compression test. On both cylinders, the first compression stroke was 100 and topped out at about 170 lbs after ~5-7 turns. Pretty much identical on front/back. I added 1/2 oz of oil and both cylinders went to 120 on 1st turn to about 200 lbs at peak. I'm not super experienced with this, but in my understanding, these are well within range of what's expected. One thing I did notice is that the spark plugs seemed to have far less gap than they were supposed to – like maybe 0.020 in, as opposed to the of .038-.043 spec. I am pretty confident they were gapped properly (I did it myself when installing them). I can't remember exact age, but probably roughly 2.5 seasons (maybe 6-8k miles). I had a spare set of fresh plugs so I gapped those and put them in. I did some searching and didn't find shrinking (or melting) plugs to be super common. The bike does seem to run hot in the summer, but it's an air cooled bike in NE summer, so I assume that's normal. Anyone know if shrinking gaps is indicative of a problem? Based on your guys' recommendations, I will: #1 - Take long ride on bike to get it well up to temp. #2 - Immediately change engine/filter and primary oil. Both due for a change anyway. Anything else that I should take a look at, aside from generally running the bike longer/hotter, esp in colder weather? Thanks! --Dean | ||
| Steveford |
The only way a gap could close up would be if something was hitting them like a chunk of carbon on the piston crown. | ||
| Gmaple |
Melting plugs? | ||
| Ratbuell |
Or they're the wrong plugs and they reach too far into the chamber...or someone forgot the washer... | ||
| Buellbum |
---Melting plugs?--- lol... yeah, that's what i was thinking... Buellbot: you might have some water in your oil from condensation. you could also have excessive blow-by past the rings. i'm pretty sure that compression tests are done, COLD. how many miles are on the bike? | ||
| Buellrobot |
I used the HD plugs 10R12, so believe they should be at proper depth. I could be mis-remembering, thinking back to having gapped an earlier set of plugs (but having not actually gapped this set). This feels most probable, since the plugs didn't look deformed or banged up. Compression seems good, but there's one thing the manual says about the compression test with oil in the cylinder: "Readings that are considerably higher during the second test (with oil) indicate worn piston rings." Is going from 170 to 200 "considerably higher"? Would that indicate a likely culprit for additional blow-by? Oh and I double checked and it looks like warm is correct:  | ||
| Screamer |
When replacing the oil pump drive gear, are you certain the cams were correctly timed before the cover was installed? Incorrect cam timing can sometimes cause the "excessive fuel" behavior. | ||
| Buellrobot |
@Screamer – For the oil gear replacement and cam timing, I did a lot of research (ie. reading the manual, videos, articles, etc) and did my best to take each step super carefully. The bike runs relatively well seems to have the expected amount of power. So I don't think the cam gears are off unless there's some version of failure that's relatively subtle. The biggest thing that changed was that I bought an 1125CR at the end of the summer. The CR has distorted my sense of what the X1's power should feel like. |
