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Mhlunsford
Posted on Monday, December 04, 2017 - 10:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

X1 2000 engine with about about 35K Miles. When I got it with 12K miles, it shifted great.

Problem: When I shift and accelerate
somewhat hard into second, I get what feels like a clutch slip, about 1 second later, there will be a sudden pull as it grabs the gear. It can also be hard to shift into second some times. IF I take it easy, it can be hard to shift but I do not get sudden pull.

I tried the following:
:new clutch, new clutch cable, new primary fluid.

I was going to replace the detent plate, but it is behind the clutch and do not want to take that out until I have garage again.

Any ideas ? shift fork, detent plate ?
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Monday, December 04, 2017 - 10:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had that too. Mine manifested itself at 45,000 or so.
It was worn dogs on the gears.
If I shifted into second gently like in traffic, it would be fine but as soon as I rolled on the gas, it would hop and then catch.
It was sometimes bad enough to lift the front wheel!
If I was nailing it, it would engage and stay engaged.

My repair was the last thing that I managed to get from the extended warranty.
The cost from the dealer was $720 or so as memory serves.

At least the trapdoor makes it do-able. The XB engines have to be torn right down to the molecular level for a repair of this nature.
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Mhlunsford
Posted on Monday, December 04, 2017 - 01:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

ok, sounds familiar. The hop and catch sounds like it.
I have a couple spare transmissions. When I get a garage again, I will swap the gears from other transmissions I have.

Thanks
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Buellrobot
Posted on Monday, December 04, 2017 - 01:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ditto, had the same on an X1 it was worn dogs.
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Gusm2
Posted on Monday, December 04, 2017 - 03:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

They all do that Sir!, as above...... Gearbox rebuild would sort it out.... Or live with it. I had mine fixed a few years back which cured the problem
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2017 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Let us know how your gears look when you get in there. Mine is doing something similar and I've assumed that's what it was. I already planned on replacing my detent plate this winter, so while I'm that far in I figured maybe I'd pull out the trap door and take a look at the gears. Mine does it from 2nd to 3rd on occasion, not all the time. Mine will shift and catch for a second, then jump and catch again. I try to just be adamant with my shifts. I think it does it easier with a sloppy shift, which is easy to do with this boomerang shifter.
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2017 - 01:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My dogs were not obvious when they were taken out. Barely rounded.
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Buellrobot
Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 05:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ditto on that too. In my case the dogs did not look obviously worn either. After sharing a high resolution photo here on the board, people told me they looked worn enough to slip.
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Mhlunsford
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 02:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What I do is shift slow and hold the shift lever in place while I release the clutch then release the shift lever.

Sometimes can even hear it engage.

I will live with it for awhile until I have a garage again. I will probably just swap another trans in.
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H0gwash
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 06:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I bought a spare transmission which had the same light wear on the dogs as my original and it acted identically. My first transmission eventually started to stick in 2nd and then 3rd, I don't really keep track of my gears but I certainly noticed when I got a good skid out of it when it jammed and bent a shift fork. When I pulled the trans I saw it had even ground off some of the shift fork lip.

I am looking at either pulling my spare transmission for back cutting or maybe getting the Baker XL6. Not sure yet.
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Hootowl
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 06:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The Bakers are nice, but they're really proud of 'em. If I need a shorter top gear, I'll swap pulleys. Much cheaper. I can't imagine that having the tranny fixed would come close to the cost of a Baker. But...lots of people buy them and love them.
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H0gwash
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 06:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I can't seem to find local guys who will do the old school backcutting here in CA. I could live without a sixth gear really, I'm just looking for a trans that won't jam up on me at speed and it seems the Baker fixes that.

If someone knows of a backcutting source outside of CA it might be worth shipping. I can't seem to find any references on Google.
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H0gwash
Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2017 - 01:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=3842&post=198002#POST198002

In the above thread written around 2003, Reepicheep wrote the following which appears to be this same problem. He writes about replacing the second gear pair, but I have not found that available nowadays, although my search has been hardly throrough.

"Depends on how you measure "major". I doubt that it was a result of the crash, but that may have made an existing problem more noticable.

Start with the simple stuff, but it probably won't fix it. Carefully set primary chain tension. Switch to Mobil 1 Gear oil. Carefully adjust the shifter position to give you the best leverage without hitting th cases.

But that is probably not the problem, and it will probably only keep getting worse. What is likely happening is that the dogs are worn on the second gear pair. You might be able to use the mod Snowdave listed above.

But the real fix is to just replace that second gear pair. As long as you have one of the tube framers (update your profile!) it is a pretty easy job. The second gear pair ends up at like $110 or so (as I recall) and is not hard to get in.

The historonics you see me listing above in this thread are how to press out that 5th gear drive assembly, which you should not have to do. What you have to do is *much* easier, about the only "special" tool you will need are some "big honkin sockets" and some snap ring pliars, and a particular sized drill bit to calibrate the shift detent plate on reassembly. The factory manual gives detailed listings of what to do and what you need.

Depending on your milage (again, update your profile!) you may want to refresh some of the bearings and spacers in the tranny (cheap) and give that 5th gear drive assembly a real careful inspection (while still in bike). If it goes, you trash a transmission shaft, which drives up the amount of work and costs substantially.

Also, while you have it apart, look for a raised lip on the shift drum, where the pins on the shift forks ride. File those back flush (or even bevel them in just a little) and shifting will be much nicer across the board.

The whole job looks a lot worse then it is. Take your time, do one step at a time and do it well, and be careful and it will likely go really well. The whole job should be less then $150 in parts, which is a pretty cheap tranny rebuild..."
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H0gwash
Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2017 - 06:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It looks like the 2nd gear set is not obsolete like I thought. Those part numbers are 35796-00 and 35797-00. I paid about $220 for the pair. A local HD shop has a Buell guy who can rebuild the tranny with the new gears once the new year rolls around so I will see how that goes.
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Zac4mac
Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2017 - 03:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Right before NRHS moved to Missouri, Dan had a Bonneville transmission back-cut.
Gears came back looking like jewelry.

I'll try to get a company name.

Z
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Buelliedan
Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2017 - 11:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The folks to get the back cutting are R & D motorsports:

http://www.r-dmotorsports.com/
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Steveford
Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2017 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Do NOT switch to Mobil 1 Gear Oil, the sulfur in it will eat the rotor in no time flat.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2017 - 01:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When I lost the mainshaft bearing in my S1W and had the trans out, I had our guys back-cut and micro-polish the gears.

Wow.

Huge difference.

It was out anyway....perfect time to do it.
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H0gwash
Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2017 - 04:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It is looking like backcutting at R&D is significantly cheaper than the Baker XL6 and even the Zippers 5 speed bolt in tranny, like, half the cost.

Now I am trying to keep calm and rational and trying to think of reasons not to pull it out right away and ship it to Florida......
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Buelliedan
Posted on Friday, December 22, 2017 - 10:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just an FYI,
I have never sent R&D a trans and the only thing it required was the back cutting. You can bet he will find some other parts that are worn and need to be replaced so expect your bill to be more than just the simple back cut cost.

And to be clear I am not saying he is ripping people off or anything, what I am saying is to do the job correctly it almost always requires some other parts to be changed.
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Harleyelf
Posted on Friday, December 22, 2017 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When my Sportster broke a second gear dog I bought a Chinese gear set for $65 from MC Goodies in Rosemead, CA. New primary gasket and a quart of Sportrans, total cost under $100.

Back cutting will be that much, not to mention the labor is the same because you have to remove it to backcut it. Buy the H-D part and install it yourself.
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H0gwash
Posted on Friday, December 22, 2017 - 03:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for the head's up. Mark sounded very thorough and professional. I'm sure he will find *bonus* problems which I'll probably want him to fix cause I just don't know that stuff that well. He let me know various add on costs which might apply and said we'd discuss before a final price was set and and a card was run.

Harleyelf- It seemed there was a post or two in the archives implying sloppy tuber transmission causing premature wear on 2nd gear set. Maybe I just inferred it. I have slapped sporty transmissions back together with mixed success and I thought my lack of formal transmission assembly could recreate the problem I already have if I installed stock gears. I suppose if the problem resurfaced 50,000 miles later, I wouldn't consider that a problem. Disassembly then reassembling with backcut gears sounds pretty slick too.
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Buelliedan
Posted on Friday, December 22, 2017 - 04:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

when Mark is done that trans will be twice as good as new IMO. Even replacing all the gears with new ones will not be as good.
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Harleyelf
Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2017 - 02:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The root cause of my issue was the thrust washer on the layshaft being .005" too thin. I replaced the .030 with a .035 and the excess slop vanished. Still carry the .030 washer on my keychain to remind me to check the simple stuff.
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H0gwash
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2018 - 03:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mark from R&D Motorsports called back, said rounded edges on 1st gear dogs were the problem on my trans, he thought they came from the factory too rounded. Occasionally he sees such a thing on non harley tranmission dogs too, he attributes that to poor QC. Credit card damage was limited to about $1200. about $300 of that was in assorted transmission repairs and bearing replacements, and putting a screw in the detent plate, repairing one of the forks, etc.

Reepicheep's suggestions for removing the main drive gear with cheap hardware store stuff worked really well! They are in the link that I posted above on Dec 9.

Looks like I could have done what Harleyelf did and solved my problem on the cheap, really, this was kind of a christmas present to myself. I have never heard a greybeard say "I got my transmission backcut and I really regretted it."
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Firemanjim
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2018 - 11:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have used RC Performance in N. Carolina for my Busa back cutting, they are notorious for the second gear slip.
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