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Oopezoo
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 09:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I know this has been beat to death, but I need some opinions on what to do next.

I had some buggered up threads on one of the exhaust studs on my S1, so I bought 4 new replacements from American Sport Bike when they were still in business. 3/4 of the old studs backed right out by double nutting them. The 4th one (the one that really needed replaced) immediately snapped off. It is the stud closest to the battery. It was sitting proud so I attempted to weld a nut on it. All that did was cause it to snap off the stud closer to the head. I repeated this 5 times until I finally had to just dremel the stud flush with the head. The damn thing is stuck. So that is where it sits now.

Options as I see it are easy out, drill it out, or pull the head and take it to a machine shop. I'm thinking the easy out will just lead to bigger headaches considering the stud has already been snapped off multiple times. Has anyone had luck with them?

I know Jim's makes a tool to drill it out, but its hard to swallow $120 for a tool I will most likely only use once. Also, my thinking is that if I'm going to spend money on the head, I might as well pull them both and send them out to be ported and have them fix it while its there (as these are NOT Thunderstorm heads). And if I'm going that far, why not just tack on a big bore kit. I hate taking shit apart twice.

Also....I'm guessing the answer is no, but can the heads be pulled without removing the motor from the frame? Any other words of wisdom I'm not thinking about?
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S1owner
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 10:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Pm me I can send you Buellistics exhaust stud 101
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd post in the Wanted section of the classifieds too, someone here might have that tool that would be willing to let you borrow it to drill the stud out.
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Oopezoo
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 11:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Found a link to a cheaper version of the tool in the archives.

http://www.georges-garage.com/evo_engine.htm
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Lynrd
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I once had to go down a very similar road with a big twin...ezout did work, combined with heat and some Aero-Kroil.

Drilled the pilot hole and soaked the offending area with Kroil the night before, next morning I used a small propane torch (a micro job I also use for soldering) on the aluminum around the stud, wanged a small square ez out all up in there, and out she come.

But removing the heads and having them breathed upon ( or swapped for thunderstorms) is a sure fix as well. Depending on my situation at the time, I would maybe go that route...I'd hate to have the bike down waiting for the machine shop to turn it around...but if there was another good or better set of heads available...swap the good heads on then farm out the old ones would be how it would go down.
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S1owner
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 11:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Surprisingly the studs are not usdually in very tight. I had some issues also what worked for me was heat on the head around it let it cool heat the same area again and used a left handed drill bit and it came out as the drill bit in
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Oopezoo
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 11:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

eh.....bike has already been down for a year while I've been addressing several issues. The more I fix, the more pop up. I was just hoping to be able to throw a leg over it again before the end of the season. I REALLY don't want to pull the heads yet. I'm hoping to save that for a few years down the road when I have a little more free time. I think this exhaust stud is the last stumbling block to getting it back on the road.
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Oopezoo
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 11:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Oh man....I've been soaking this thing in PB blaster for a month, heated it cherry red, smacked it, welded nuts onto it, you name it. The other 3 backed out pretty easily. Its just this one, and it appears VERY stuck. I've dealt with plenty of broken exhaust studs over the years on many different vehicles. So far, this one is taking the cake.
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K12pilot
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If it is the front head it is not too bad, but you need at least 1 good stud for the tool to work properly. I have done it a couple times with the Sims tool & it worked well. The rear head is a different story altogether... check alloy bolts for studs, I bought them for my X1 build but they would not fit due to the bend of the pipe ((. they will go on the S2 when I tear into her this winter ))
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K12pilot
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 12:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

JIMS TOOL ^^^
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Lynrd
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 12:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

PB Blaster is NOT Aero-Kroil....

Probably not enough in this case, but only Aero-Kroil is the real deal. Buy it direct from Kano labs out of Nashville.

the single most incredible penetrating oil on the planet
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S1owner
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Also will add I had one stud that I gave up on brought it to hd and they had it out that day for $50
May go that route to get riding?
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Ratbuell
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 12:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd drill a hole through the middle of the stud, gradually increasing the size of the hole till you have only a thin skin of stud still remaining. Then get a punch, and "collapse" the stud-skin until you can pull it out with needle nose pliers. That way you aren't risking the threads in the head, nor breaking off an easy-out.

Pulling the head should be a last resort, since it requires new base gasket, new intake gaskets, new pushrod tube seals, new rockerbox gaskets...
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Ralph
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 10:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Pop the head off - I've seen so many people screw the head up trying to fix the stud in place.

You can do it with the motor in the bike. If you are careful when you pull the head and don't pull the cylinder off the cases you won't need to replace the cylinder base gasket. My experience is that the only gaskets you'll need to replace are the head gasket and the rocker base gasket. Intake seals are a must do. Push rod seals are amazingly durable so typically are good to go unless you can see degradation or tears.

Don't mess around with improvements - just fix it and you can get it back on the road in a week.

(Message edited by Ralph on September 18, 2017)
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Oopezoo
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 - 07:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

just fix it and you can get it back on the road in a WEEK




BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA......guessing you don't have little kids? I get about 4 hours a month to actually do anything I want to. I'll be happy if this thing is back on the road before the snow starts falling.
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 - 07:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA......guessing you don't have little kids? I get about 4 hours a month to actually do anything I want to. I'll be happy if this thing is back on the road before the snow starts falling."

oooh man, that's the most accurate thing I've ever read on this site. A few years ago I used to just stay up till 3am working on bikes all night. Now I'm lucky if I get time to change a pair of grips in a weekend.
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Oopezoo
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 - 08:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I felt extra accomplished this past weekend. I got my ~4 hours on Saturday so I could dick around with these exhaust studs.......and then Sunday I managed to change a set of tires on my buddy's Bonneville, replace the rear brakes on another buddy's Suburban, and managed to catch 3 quarters of a football game while enjoying a few beers. It was almost like a weird flashback dreamy thing.
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Williamscottrobertson
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 - 06:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

+1 what he said ^^
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Ralph
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2017 - 12:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm a single dad with two boys - fourteen and eleven. I help take care of my eighty eight year old mom. Full time job and off the books part time job.

I know what time stress looks like.

You can have the head pulled in less than two hours. Have the stud machined out with no chance of screwing up the head for a few bucks and reassemble in less than three.

Granted, that's more than your monthly allotment of time. But I think if you can find time to help your buddies, you could treat yourself to a few extra hours.

If you use the drill guide you can have it done a few hours faster. There is also a significant possibility of drifting into the threads and fubaring the head. Then you'd have to remove the head, have it machined for an over size stud or insert....

You know best what you are capable of, do what fits you.
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Oopezoo
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2017 - 08:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

One in college, a 4yr old, a 2yr old, a 9 month old puppy, and a wife in the middle of her masters degree. I don't think I've slept past 6:30am in 3+ years...haha. Its all good though, the bike will be there when the time comes.

I don't want to pull the head. I know myself too well. If the head comes off, this will turn into a full blown upgrade/restoration......that I probably won't get around to finishing for another 5 years.

I ended up ordering one of the cheaper drill out fixtures from Ebay ($43). It is made from some urethane mixture instead of machined metal. It comes with 2 steel guide inserts of different sizes and includes drill bits. I have my own good bits as well. When I get it, I will most likely make myself a copy of it with my 3D printer and maybe have our machine shop at work make me a metal one. Should have it by the weekend.
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2017 - 08:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

These are tough bikes to own when you have kids. I picked mine up a few months before my wife got pregnant and right at the beginning of a 6 month kitchen remodel. It sat un-rideable for 9 months until I could replace the fork seals and rebuild the front brake. When I was younger I would've spent one or two weekends replacing the isolators, brakes, some gaskets, primary chain tensioner, oil pump gear, the whole deal and I would've been good to go. When you're stretching it out to an hour every other week, I've given my wife the impression that this bike is constant problems because I'm always fixing up one little thing after another, because I just didn't have the time to give it the 'new bike refresh' that a 20 year old bike deserves. Once my truck is paid off I'm gonna look into picking up something newer for commutes and this bike is going to enjoy a full makeover on my own time.
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Oopezoo
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2017 - 09:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I keep eyeballing Aprilia Tuonos. I shouldn't do that.

Luckily I have a perfectly good BMW 1200GS sitting next to the S1 in the garage. So I have something to ride, its just not the same as the S1 with regards to the quick joy ride fun factor.

I don't ever plan to part ways with the S1. So some day I will give it that full frame off refresh. At this point, I just want to be able to put 1-2k miles a year on it without it leaving me stranded on the side of the road. Hopefully this gets it to that point once I get it reassembled.

(Message edited by OoPEZoO on September 20, 2017)
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2017 - 10:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Superduke 1290s for me, but I'll probably move closer towards an Indian Scout since it's a commuter.

I agree, never parting ways with the S1. Of all the bikes I've owned, my old Buell xb9s was the only bike I've ever regretted selling. Thunderstorm heads and 88ci kits would be fun but I just want this thing to be dead reliable for the long term. Currently I'm getting a slight rattle noise out of the engine around 2k rpm, which I think is something under the primary cover. I'm hoping fall gets here before that gets any worse and I've gotta quit riding it. It's only left my on the side of the road once, and that was for the stupid sidestand switch.
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Oopezoo
Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2017 - 03:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So far so good. I attached the flange fixture, drilled it out with the small drill bit, and then swapped inserts and followed it with the 1/4" bit. It took all of maybe 20mins total. Most of that time was from me removing and reinstalling the fixture because I was paranoid about cleaning out the metal shavings every few mins. It looks like it did a great job. Now I just gotta dig up the right tap to clean out the threads. I thought I had that covered, but it turns out the tap and die set I have is metric.

Going through the usual subjects to see if I can borrow the right tap to clean out the threads. If not, I'll head out to pick one up

Sanity check.....the holes in the head are 5/16-18?
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Oopezoo
Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2017 - 10:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Worked like a champ. Lots of PB blaster as a lube. I ran the tap in 1/4 turn at a time and backed it up any time I hit hard resistance. Backed it out completely every few complete turns to clean the tap and blow out the hole. After a few cycles of that I could turn the tap the whole way in until bottomed out with just my fingers. The threads look great. Whew.....glad that went rather smoothly.
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Gusm2
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2017 - 05:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Excellent result
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2017 - 08:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Were you able to drill it out enough to get the remaining threads out, and then use the tap to clean it all out well, or did you tap entirely new threads?

I'm glad it went well! Will make me feel better when I go to replace mine. No complaints with the cheaper tool you found on ebay? I know normally you'd start with a thin drill bit and work your way bigger, but I'm guessing with the drill guide, all you can really do is start with the properly fitted drill bit and do it all in one step?
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Oopezoo
Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2017 - 09:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The cheaper fixture was "OK". I'm torn.....it was the only tool I found that included 2 separate inserts and matching sized drill bits. A skinny one to drill a pilot hole, and then a larger 1/4" one that drilled out the center of the bolt and left just the threads and remaining material. I liked that. What I didn't like was that whenever the urethane had been cured, it must have not been sitting flat on a table, so one side of the flange was thicker than the other. The tapped hole for the insert was perpendicular to the face that mounted against the head, so it was ok, but it didn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. I ended up sanding it down on the belt sander until the flange had a uniform thickness the whole way across. Otherwise, the insert and the other mounting nut would not be 100% seated against the urethane fixture. The holes were drilled properly through the fixture, it was just the back side I'd take some pics but I haven't researched a photobucket replacement yet. I quickly drew something up up to explain what it looked like before I sanded it down.


flange


Ideally, it would be nice to have a properly machined metal fixture that accepts the two inserts I now have. If I have to do it again, that is what I will make. I already created a 3D copy of the fixture with my 3D printer software. I would just have to pass the file to our machine shop and they could spit me one out. Then I could tap it to accept the inserts.

I don't think I would want to attempt it with just one large drill bit in one shot. The pilot hole, followed by the larger bit is much safer in my opinion. It left the original threads 100% intact. Then I used a closed end thread tap to essentially remove the remaining bolt material from the threads as I fed it into the hole. I was not cutting new threads, just cleaning out what was left of the seized stud.
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Lasbuell
Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2017 - 11:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Buell-Exhaust-Stud- Drill-Plate-tool-/140910484607?hash=item20ceeb5c7f :g:MfIAAOxy69JTDHcd&vxp=mtr
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Scott_in_nh
Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2017 - 12:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If you never want to replace exhaust studs again, use the thicker flange from the XB's, it also stays nice looking because it is SS rather than chromed crap.

then add exhaust studs/nuts made by ARP
}https://alloyboltz.com/product/polished-grade-8-stainless-harley-exhaust-stud-kit-4/

(Message edited by scott in nh on September 26, 2017)
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