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Burt_macklin_fbi
Posted on Friday, April 21, 2017 - 07:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Looking to see if anyone has an ignition module that will work on my 02 cyclone. It will run for about 2 minutes then die like you hit the kill switch. It wont restart until i cycle the ignition on and off but then will only run for about 10ish seconds before dying again. Have replaced ignition relay, ignition coil already. Am i heading dowm the right path? Thanks.
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34nineteen
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2017 - 06:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Are you sure it's the ignition?

Seems like you're missing a few steps of diagnosis before you started replacing parts.
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Burt_macklin_fbi
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2017 - 07:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Seems to be heat related since it will run fine until warmed up and then only run for a few seconds afterward. Its getting gas so that leaves a lack of air or spark and air shouldnt be temp related, so im thinking ignition
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34nineteen
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2017 - 07:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

But is it getting enough gas?

Does it restart instantly or do you have to let it cool down? Maybe that "cool down" is just "let gas trickle back into the carb bowl". If you have to let it cool down, have you tried to start it on ether? If you don't have ether, you can always twist the throttle to make the carb shoot some gas into the carb. If you can't see that happening then it's pointing back to fuel starvation. Have you pulled a spark plug or both right when it died and verified there is no spark?

Maybe you have an obstruction in your fuel system that is only trickling a very small amount of fuel into the carb bowl? Have you checked to make sure the tank breather valve is working or at least pulled the gas cap off right after it dies to see if it tries to equalize the pressure? Have you checked the fuel lines for an obstruction? Made sure the petcock or strainer isn't plugged or obstructed?

Im not saying it's not electrical, I just didn't read anything about ruling out fuel system issues like any of the checks listed above.
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Harleyelf
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2017 - 10:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The cam position sensor is mounted in a much hotter area then the module and is cheaper. Try replacing it first, or at least sniff it for burnt-electronics odor.

Some Sportster modules will work, as would an aftermarket ignition.

PM me with ride suggestions, only been in Appleton two years now.
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Screamer
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2017 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

While it isn't a fool-proof test...
When the bike begins to cut out - if you can cool the cam position sensor and it keeps running, then it's likely the cam position sensor (CPS)is the culprit.

You can remove the timer cover to allow you to spray the CPS. Using a none damaging spray with "high-evaporative" rate usually has effective cooling capability.
Although the CPS area has no "spark" risk, most of the sprays that are effective at quick cooling also are EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE - weigh the risks before considering using it. Crushed ice in a zip-lock bag pressed against the CPS has worked but may not provide instantaneous results.

(I can't remember the 2002 circuit for sure) but another heat-related ignition behavior is that ignition relays can have a similar behavior (and you said you've already replaced it). A failing ignition relay when heated can allow the engine to turn over but not fire.
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Bluebueller
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2017 - 12:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My simple one for this is to check the vent line make sure you didn't pinch it between the frame and tank or similar. cutitng off vent line can cause it to chock and die out after a few miles too.
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Xldevil
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2017 - 12:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The ignition module on 2002 Cyclone is different to other years.
Looks similar to that on FI bikes.
Replacement for that special year is hard to get.
No Sportster module fits,afaik.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-2001-2002-BUELL-M2-CYCLONE-CDI-IGNITION-MODULE-/282440334861?hash=item41c2c17e0d:g:uDAAAOSwjDZYmd4y&vxp=mtr

(Message edited by Xldevil on April 24, 2017)
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Xldevil
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2017 - 12:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Start the bike,let it run til it dies.
Open the fuel cap and look if it runs again.
If it does,your tank ventilation is clogged.Simple fix than.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2017 - 01:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My vote is tank vent tube. Sensors don't usually fail "sometimes" - generally if they go...they're gone.
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Harleyelf
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2017 - 03:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Do you have a head temperature sensor? They can muck with your spark.
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Hootowl
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2017 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

He says it cuts off like you've hit the kill switch, which doesn't sound like fuel starvation to me.
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Burt_macklin_fbi
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2017 - 11:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Im thinking it is the crank position sensor due to it being in a much higher heat area than ignition module. Have one ordered and hopefully this time next week i can let yall know that fixed it!
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Burt_macklin_fbi
Posted on Friday, April 28, 2017 - 02:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Correction on previous post, i meant cam position sensor. Replaced it and.... still same frigging problem. Idles for a bit then just shuts off, no stumbling, ni backfiring just turns off. Fuel cap off, same. Twist throttle up to 2500 RPM same. Cycle kill switch restarts just fine. Again have replaced relays, coil, cam position sensor... running out of ideas.
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Robertl
Posted on Friday, April 28, 2017 - 02:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Does it start if you don't cycle the kill switch (hand control switch)?

My M2 was cutting out and I didn't think too much of it because it restarted until it happened at night and I lost all power in traffic. : O
Turns out it is my ignition switch being a little worn and the vibrations. Lots of short trips and on/off probably hasn't helped.

Also, if I forget the fuel valve, mine will just run and cut off. No sputtering, backfire or anything, just shuts off.
Similar situation will happen if the float is out of adjustment, starving engine. It will start every time, if the bowl fills in time, then run out and die.

Maybe someone local or with a spare ignition module will loan to you for a quick swap and test.
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Burt_macklin_fbi
Posted on Friday, April 28, 2017 - 02:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Will not start again until kill switch is cycled which is why im leaning so heavily towards electrical. Also enigine at higher rpm does not make it shut down sooner, which leads me away from fuel.

(Message edited by burt_macklin_fbi on April 28, 2017)
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Resinears
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2017 - 12:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hmmm, Harleyelf temperature sensor comment makes me wonder about my own situation.

What happens if the temp sensor is disconnected altogether? I've been trying to troubleshoot intermittent lack of power by playing with the VOES, jetting, etc. My rear head does have a temp sensor wire, but doesn't seem to affect things whether is plugged into the harness or not.

I'm suspecting electrical or ignition related on my bike because once when I was pulling away at very minimal throttle (where the bike climbing through 2000 rpm), the engine intermittently started pulling through with much more authority - like a 4 cylinder bike was suddenly running on all 4, instead of 3. There's no way I can horse my front wheel off the ground, yet my plugs are the right color, compression seems really good for both cylinders (120), etc. I have the "Race Use Only" ECU.

I too have intermittent shut down, that I thought was caused by my fuel line routing that I've adjusted. Jetting and timing have been played with as well, and I recently used a product called "deoxit" on my ignition switch and kill switch. Too many issues at once, I know, but reading through this post did bring the effects of the head temp sensor into question for me.
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Burt_macklin_fbi
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2017 - 03:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Unpuggued engine temp sensor. Bike behaves same as before. One more item off the list
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Resinears
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2017 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OK - mine is the same. Unplugged temp sensor, still no balls and rough.

I tested the voes switch which itself is working properly, but when I attach a vacuum gauge to the hose the voes mounts to on the mikuni, it's not a steady enough signal to get an average reading. Unplugging the voes does cause a SLIGHT drop in idle, but I'm wondering if the rapid on/off signial it is creating should be damped. If the ignition curve was actually changing back and forth that quickly it would be on every rotation - can't see that being useful. Voes unplugged doesn't seem to make a difference either, so I think I'll just jumper the harness with a toggle switch and see if I can feel a difference, or at least instigate some pinging.
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34nineteen
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 02:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Before you cycle the switch, did you pull a plug wire (or both) and verify that you're not getting spark?
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Resinears
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2017 - 01:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I decided to install an led in line with my voes harness to get a visual when the switch is grounding. While wiring it up, I found something interesting:
The 2 conductor harness the voes plugs into has one ground wire, and the violet one that runs to my cdi box. When the switch closes, it allows "ground" to the violet wire. What was weird, is that while I was wiring my led light up, I went to the battery with the positive, and the verified it would light when touching the ground in the harness the voes plugs into, but it also lights up (to a lesser extent) when I touch the violet wire. I suspected that maybe this was my problem, but when I pulled the connector off the cdi box and ran the tester directly to the voes trigger connector, I get the same readings with a meter, or my led tester. So, I'm no electrical guy, but all the voes switch is doing, is closing the circuit between the ground and the violet connector that is supposed to trigger the advanced ignition curve (which in itself seems to supply enough ground to light up my test led).

Is my cdi box pooched? I mentioned earlier that the closing this circuit either manually or with the voes switch at idle causes a BARELY perceptible change in idle speed. I have to advance my ignition plate almost to the stop before I get pinging at low rpm high load situation. I'm still toying with the idea of installing a toggle, but find it strange that I'm getting the led to light on both wires in the voes harness - the ground side is about 50% brighter. I swear last time I disturbed my wiring (changing my tail piece mount) the bike started when cold and with choke ran about 2000 rpm where it usually might get to 15-1600. Also seemed much smoother. I'm sure the issue is electrical related, but I'm running out of ideas.
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Resinears
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2017 - 03:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well, I found a NOS factory ignition box (2001 - 2002) on eBay for a reasonable price, and am waiting for it to arrive. I hope it makes a difference in getting the VOES to act like I think it should. At the very least, I'll have the standard box instead of the race module I have at the moment. I just believe that the change in idle should be more significant when the voes closes the circuit. My reasoning is that if the switch works (it does), and the voes harness wires check out (they do), it is hopefully the box. If no, I guess I'll have to keep digging.
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Resinears
Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2017 - 09:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Got the new CDI box and installed it. No change (except earlier red line cut off). While screwing around I got a heck of a shock off the front plug wire. Wonder if it's time for something as basic as plug wires...
The Taylors that are on there look pretty new, but the resistance readings are out of spec (low) with respect to what is spec'd in the manual. Also got a nice oil bath when checking the timing, and found the goop is leaking out of the camshaft position sensor. Tested with heat and found no change.
Anyone know what the HD part (for the wires) that will fit is? I've searched, but no luck so far...
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651lance
Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2017 - 09:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The 1999 ish plug wires from a dyna / softail will work. One is about 1" longer and the other is about 1.5" longer.
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Dtaylor
Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2017 - 10:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If you're in no hurry, Iron Machine wires are very nice:

https://www.ironmachine.com/buell-spark-plug-wires ?pagesize=12&viewmode=grid&pagenumber=2
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Resinears
Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2017 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for the replies!
Those Iron machine wires do look good. I'll have to check on the shipping options.
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Hugie03flhr
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2017 - 04:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I agree with Xdevil. I have an 02 also and it is an animal all to itself when it comes to ignition. I would put a timing light on the plug wire and see if you are loosing spark. If the light stops flashing, you have no spark. I see the module pop up on eBay at random or you can just go full aftermarket crane hi4 single fire ignition. The 02 module doesn't have much going on other than the ignition. It's not tied into other parts of the bike like the fuel injected Buells are.
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Hugie03flhr
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2017 - 04:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Also check the cone for loose components, broken wires or anything that looks wrong.
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Resinears
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2017 - 07:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have changed the plug wires, and thought everything was good. It wasn't. Two blocks from my place the plugs fouled and the gunshots coming out of the exhaust as I limped it back to the garage were frightening. The cdi box got changed (wasn't the problem), so the only thing that I haven't changed out is the coil (tested fine), and the pickup sensor. I have a Dyna 2000i on its way as it wasn't much more money than what the dealer wanted for a stock pickup. That way, if I need a new coil, I can go single fire. That means I'll have both a new stock cdi box and the racing box available. They are both the newer style double connector.
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Gusm2
Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2017 - 03:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Had a similar problem on my M2, eventually found a small split in the Coil wire right next to the push on terminal.....

Drove me mental trying to find it
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Resinears
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2017 - 09:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hmmm. I got you on the "drove me mental" part. I don't 100% follow you. Do you mean one of the two wires that push onto the coil split?
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Gusm2
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2017 - 06:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Not the plug leads, there is a black/white and a pink that push over the terminals, the b/w was damaged where the rubber shroud is moulded onto the wire, if the tank was off it would run ok till I started moving the loom around then stutter pop and bang before dying, maybe not exactly what you're experiencing but wort checking
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Resinears
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2017 - 09:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Gotcha. Worth a try to strip those wires back and put some ring terminals on them. Certainly won't hurt, and I'd need to do that to install the 2000i anyways.
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Mhlunsford
Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2017 - 11:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would look at the on/off switch it self and timing voes
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